Dog_Horse_Girl

I can't imagine returning to meat-eating, to be honest. Just walking past the meat section in the supermarket is quite challenging LOL. :D I don't really like the smell of meat, raw or cooked. Since shunning meat, I feel so much healthier. But I also quit smoking around the same time and started exercising too. It's a combination of those factors at work, I'm sure. I've had periods of vegetarianism and periods of meat-eating. But I know now that vegetarianism is the right thing for me. And eventually I'll transform my diet to that of the vegan - no animal products at all. No dairy (I don't use cow's milk anyway but I do still use cheese and yoghurt), no eggs, no honey. I already shun leather products as much as possible b/c I don't like the thought of wearing a dead animal's skin - that's a bit creepy to me! :D What we eat is a very personal choice, as is what we wear. While I choose to minimise my reliance on animal products, I have no problem with others making different choices.

And if you bothered to actually understand that I do know what I'm doing, that I do have positive contributions to make, and that you have made some real clangers of errors in posting about me, then I wouldn't have anything further to say to you at all. Come to think of it, I don't have anything further to say to you. Simply put, you are incorrect on many points you've made about me. Go on, have the last word. You know you want to. End of discussion from me. I don't have to explain myself any further.

It shows just how much you don't actually know...I have never and will never grind or mince RMBs. I have no idea where you think I said that, but you are incorrect on that and many other points. Oh, but you know something. I'm just going to tell you what you want to hear: I know nothing about anything, and have absolutely no right to speak in any thread here on DOL. There you go! I hope that makes you happy. If you don't like reading my posts, why not choose to ignore me? There is no need for you to suffer through my apparently incompetent responses now, is there? Or perhaps you like to try to cause a fight and perhaps you like to try to hurt ppl that you don't even know by posting things about someone that just aren't correct? That's really sad.

STZ - I don't feed BARF as a model or philosophy. I feed using a raw, whole foods philosophy, no grains, small amounts of plant matter, raw meaty bones, offal/organs, eggs, sardines, and the occasional spoonful of yoghurt. I started off feeding BARF initially as do many ppl, but have since changed to what I understand from my research, to be a prey model diet. I don't mind what you think you know about me and how I feed my dogs, b/c I know what it is that I'm doing, and I know that it's the absolute best that I am able to do, both for my dogs and my lifestyle. As I've got more than a little experience in feeding raw, whole foods, if someone asks for help or advice or information, I *am* qualified to respond. This isn't your domain exclusively and there are others here that value the experience of more than one or two ppl. And those ppl apparently value what I have to say. ;) I do have a full time job and many interests and activities outside of DOL. I don't have unlimited amounts of time to prepare (daily) appropriate raw snacks for my dogs - and if I were to prepare such snacks in advance (say on the weekends) then they would spoil before they got used. As if I need to explain myself to you - but my dogs are left home alone while I work and are kept busy by way of Kong toys, treat balls, food hunts, etc, and this isn't possible using exclusively raw foods. My house would probably smell pretty awful when I got home every day if I used raw foods exclusively for their activities. Or perhaps you would like to disagree with that too? Go on ahead, if it makes you happy! As I said, I know what I'm doing, and I know that my advice/info/suggestions are welcomed by a lot of ppl here on DOL. Have a nice evening! Fastgals - laughing at your bunny experience! I can just picture it now...

So are we to understand that your dogs do not ever get anything that's processed in any way? NO training treats, NO treat balls, NO kongs? Completely raw foods in every way, shape and form. OK then. You must have much more spare time than most of us, half your luck! :D The only dog in my family that EATS kibble as in gets it for a meal is Molly and I've explained the reasons for that being the case. It's a tiny handful (about ten pieces of an organic superpremium kibble) and it's once a day, for goodness' sake. But in your (perfect?) world, that makes me less than "highly knowledgeable" when I've been feeding raw, whole foods to my dogs for close to four years. Exclusively, except for Molly who I adopted in November last year. What makes someone "highly knowledgeable" in this arena in your opinion? Are you such a person? Please tell us! I'd love to know, in the hopes that I too can become "highly knowledgeable" about raw whole foods and how to implement and manage same. Seeing as I'm doing such a *poor job* ATM. In your opinion, anyway.

Desexing your dog is the right thing to do: for the dog, for all the bitches in your area and when you visit the dog park, and for your peace of mind. What happens if someone at the dog park likes the look of your dog? Steals him? Takes him to someone unscrupulous as their own and sells him to a puppy mill? He's then going to be used as a stud for as long as possible, not being loved or cared for as you would do, used solely to make puppies, many of which end up in shelters awaiting death, or to return to the unscrupulous breeder's stock and being inbred with their own relatives. Dogs that still have their testicles are more inclined to escape, whether it be from your yard, your front door, or your leash at the park. They do this b/c they are driven by their hormones and they cannot reason in the way humans can. And how do you know he hasn't already sired a litter (or more!)? The answer is you can't if he's sexually entire. He's capable of breeding...and chances are, he already has done so, or has at least tried to do so. JMO.

Many dogs and pups eat their own waste...there are many theories as to why this happens. I have had plenty of dogs doing this and I think it's pretty horrible. Lilly is my greyhound that I adopted in nearly 4 yrs ago, and when she came home, we fed her processed foods as per the advice from her breeder. She had an upset stomach almost every day, no matter which foods we tried, and we tried a huge variety over time. When this was going on, she was eating the poo from our other dogs...poo which was solid and well-formed - and Lilly was obviouly missing out on something in her diet even though all dogs were fed the same food. In desperation, I bought some raw minced beef (I bought blade steak and asked the butcher to mince it for me), fed it to Lilly and guess what? She loved it and for the first time in months, had no further upsets. But once we went back to kibble, the loose stools came back. I did some research and discovered raw feeding ala Billinghurst (the BARF diet). After careful consideration, I switched all the dogs to raw, whole foods, and Lilly's problem resolved itself literally overnight. All our dogs have been on raw foods now for 3.5 yrs and with no real problems and no more poo eating. It works for us! But more importantly, it works for Lilly. :D

Unfortunately, JRTs aren't always a good choice for families with young children, IMO. They can have a tendency to be snappy and growly without real provocation...and they're very "busy" dogs that like to be entertained or they can be prone to destructive behaviours or barking/pacing. I think you need to confine the pup to a crate for at least some of the time, and provide ample training sessions in short bursts of around 5 minutes each. The breed loves to please us, but need firm direction (not punishment, just being shown what is acceptable and what isn't) and will work for food OR praise. Clicker training has had some good results in this breed too. I'd suggest NILIF training (Nothing in life is free) and ensuring your children are above the pup in the pecking order ALWAYS. Confining the pup and working with her strengths will help enormously, as will educating the kids about acceptable dog/child interactions. Allow contact only with close supervision and always be ready to step in, at least for the first few months. Your pup hasn't had a great start in life, and is probably feeling quite confused, which can lead to snappy behaviour if left unchecked. I hope this helps, please keep us posted.

Molly gets kibble for breakfast b/c otherwise it would take her all morning to eat! When I adopted Molly, I asked our vet about her dietary needs and frequency of feeds b/c I'd never had a toy-sized dog before. He recommended the two feeds daily. When I discovered how long it takes her to eat a regular raw meal, I realised that we didn't have that kind of time in the morning rush and that I would have to either substitute processed for raw, or offer her something raw that wasn't whole (i.e ground up RMB or similar). I opted for a high-end organic kibble. (Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Organic Formula). I've found this works very well for Molly, us and the other dogs. Molly is first up so she can eat her tiny handful of kibble before the other dogs get up, then she goes outside for the toilet, while the other two dogs get up. I bought a bag of DVPNBOF in January...and I'm still using that bag. It's slightly past its best before date but still good...the bag is around 2.2 kgs...so I guess that gives you an idea of how little her portion really is. In a perfect world, she would get a completely raw diet too. But I also remember that dogs get treats either when training or just b/c we love them, and these treats aren't always raw either. So, my dogs are not completely raw fed if you want to look at it that way. They do get dried liver pieces, sometimes a biscuit or two (high end only such as Eagle Pack, no lucky dog or similar ), and the Purina "not bacon" treats which they *love* esp in their treat balls. BTW - I see the diet I offer as being "prey model style" rather than strictly BARF ala Billinghurst. I think it's the proportion of food types that I offer which is different, and the fact that I don't use veg/fruit slop every meal but only every second or third day (for memory, BARF recommends vegetation most days). If I could obtain whole rabbit (with fur on) at a reasonable price, then I would include that as often as possible. But I haven't found anywhere to supply me with whole (intact) rabbit. And I'm not sure the dogs would know what to do with it anyway. :D edited for typ-o.

Yay! It will be good to catch up with you tomorrow night, Jodes. Yay again for the Ollie Dog! Good Boy!

I'd suggest a program in alone training. Begin by leaving the pup in a room and go around the corner for just a moment. Return, praise, reward. Repeat until you can leave the room for a few minutes, then gradually extend that time until you can leave him in that room for 30 minutes. Alone training requires enormous patience...enormous amounts of consistency and persistence. And LOTS of praise for the right behaviour. Once you have him happy in a room while you're elsewhere in the house, begin leaving the house...then leaving the property...then the street... etc. Tips: 1. Pup needs company - provide him a safe place to sleep/spend his time, TV or radio or classical music CD. 2. Pup needs something to occupy himself. Kongs are great. Treat balls are great. Rope toys are great. Experiment to find what he loves, what he likes and what he could care less about. Then give him a variety of what he loves and likes. 3. Pups are babies and as such, will be more inclined to stick to you! Take this into account when teaching him how to behave. Set him up to succeed, not fail. Don't expect more of him than he's able to give for his age. 4. Get him into a routine. This will help with SA and with house training. Stick to the routine for at least the next couple of months b/c this will reassure him that all is well. Take a deep breath! Oh, and if you can, get a DAP diffuser b/c this can work wonders...just ask my dogs! DAP = Dog Appeasing Pheromones. HTH.

I'm not sure that's a good idea either. When a couple has a baby, their time is severely restricted, their energy levels are quite low, their tolerance levels are also quite low. Huskies aren't necessarily suitable around very young children, either. But I'm sure you would know that already. Huskies really are "special needs" dogs in some ways b/c they love to be with ppl and will do anything to be with ppl, including escaping from some of the most secure yards (that would keep most other dogs in). They're not the sort of dog to be left home alone for extended periods (such as a working day) unless they're in a secure enclosure (walls, roof, solid concrete floor) with enough shelter and plenty to do. The Sibe is one breed that is over-represented in pounds and shelters, partly b/c they are such good escape artists, partly b/c they are so vocal and neighbours complain, and partly b/c ppl don't feel capable of managing them appropriately. Why does this breed appeal to you as a companion? Are there other breeds that you are also considering? What are your reasons for wanting to obtain a dog? How much experience have you already had with dogs? Also, assuming you do obtain a Husky when you start your human family, does that also mean you won't be returning to paid employment whilever you have the dog? Does it mean you won't be leaving the dog alone while you run errands, take the children to appointments or school, run them around to their activities? I'm not trying to be overly-negative, but these are all things to consider for this breed. I've seen so many through rescues and shelters to know that the "average" person is not necessarily equipped to manage them and they flounder at the first hurdle. I've got three dogs...I work full time...my husband works full time AND he's away from time to time...they are all fine with being left. But I spent time teaching them to be OK while alone (alone training), they're kept indoors, we have two DAP diffusers on all the time, they have company (music and TV), and plenty of activities to keep them busy. But none of my dogs is a Husky...

If you think about it, a vet clinic has to contend with many "what if's" during each day. What if someone brings in a MVA victim that needs immediate surgery? What if a dog under anaesthesia reacts badly and needs CPR? What if patients are late arriving and that puts you behind in consults? What if ppl simply walk in off the street with their sick dog/cat/budgie and demand a consult on the spot? I reckon if you are happy with the vet, then don't worry about this overnight stay. It's probably just to ensure that your girl gets the post-op rest she requires. If she's never been crated, then this is a good way to keep her quiet. HTH. And don't worry - spey is quite routine and with a low risk of complications. But I know it's nerve-wracking all the same.

Gee, should I even reply? No, I don't think so. You are re-hashing old posts of mine. That's fine.

My dogs are not fed as per BARF but as per a prey model: essentially, the canine diet is modelled on the following: 1. Mostly RMBs (raw, meaty bones). 2. Small quantity of offal (organs), esp heart (both organ and muscle meat), kidney, liver. 3. Some vegetable and fruit matter, pulverised. 4. Some extra ingredients such as raw egg, canned sardines or any raw fish if you have a source that is free from heavy metals and other toxins. 5. Yoghurt with probiotics. I feed RMBs from chicken, duck if cheap (not often), lamb, beef, roo, ox, and rabbit. I do not feed minced meat from any source unless I ask the butcher to mince a steak such as a couple of pieces of blade steak that I have just bought whole. These RMBs make up the bulk of the diet. I feed organs four or five times weekly. I feed vegetable and fruit matter three times weekly, sometimes less, sometimes more. If a dog needs to lose weight, she gets extra veg/fruit and reduced animal products. I feed extra ingredients once or twice a month, with the exception of yoghurt which is fed one week in two. With three dogs, I can't give you quantities b/c it varies. That's one advantage of feeding this way: you can adjust it to suit each dog each day. I prepare things in bulk: I buy RMBs in bulk and package up into a day's worth per bag (that is, enough to feed EACH dog one meal per bag). I process veg/fruit once a month or every six to eight weeks, depending on what's in season, what's on sale, etc. I use a juicer to process this. I remove all the pulp and mix 1/2 the juice back in to make the slop. This is frozen in ziplock bags, again one day's feed per bag. I buy offal in bulk, pre-sliced and freeze it into ziplock bags. It's a really simple way to organise for multiple dog households. Every bag contains ONE meal component for all the dogs. All I do is go to the freezer every night, and remove the next bag for the following night. My dogs are fed once daily...but Molly gets a tiny breakfast of kibble (Dick van Patten's Natural Balance Organic Formula ATM) b/c she needs to eat two meals daily and she takes far too long with RMBs to do this in the morning rush! They also get a kong every day, usually stuffed with peanut butter, vegemite or cheese spread. If I bake dog cookies, they sometimes get those mixed in with the spread.

Don't expect an unbiased response to this post: KK sells a "leading brand" of kibble with the initials RC. Will you let go of the bone LM?! You have NEVER met KitKat, you have NEVER seen her during her casual employment as a rep. for Royal Canin (which she doesn't mention for the benefit of the mods/admin as she feels it would be advertising which is not allowed here), she has never pushed RC over anything else simply for the sake of it, neither here nor in person yet you continue to try and discount her experience and knowledge. This has become not only a personal vendetta of yours (which is clearly against forum rules) but a baiting expedition. Please stop being such a bully. Zorro, KitKat wants to answer you once she has gotten home and checked the ingredient list on a bag of food. In the meantime their are ingredient lists for all the RC products available on one of their websites, I have no idea if they are the same as what is used in the Australian foods but it's a start if you are genuinely interested in knowing the answer to your question. See here. ETA: Oh and I don't think it's very responsible for BARFers to try and guilt other owners into taking on this diet regime, because let's face it, it's not easy to get everything right. There will be plenty of very good dog owners who simply cannot get a BARF diet completely correct and it would be more damaging to their dogs for them to be feeding an incomplete BARF diet than a complete commercial diet. For the record, I am a BARFer and my dogs do well on it, but I am not so biased that I think it's the only solution for everyone or every dog. You are *absolutely* right about one thing at least: I have never met KK. I also don't mention the brand b/c I know it's touch-and-go with doing so on DOL. I don't believe that my responses to posts by KK regarding her chosen method of feeding dogs have had any element other than that of attempting to balance the comments posted by KK. It helped me enormously to know that she works for that particular manufacturer - up until I discovered that, I didn't understand why her bias was so strongly towards that company's particular products. Now I do understand that bias, and I feel it important to advise others of the bias that might be evident when KK posts their opinions. I also *freely* state my bias towards feeding fresh, whole raw foods. And I also freely state that what I think is based upon the experiences I've had. I'm not sure where you get the idea that I have a "personal vendetta" against KK, but perhaps you could explain this to me via PM or e-mail. I don't believe the forum pages to be the place for such a discussion. BTW - I don't push raw foods above all else. Personally, it makes no difference to me what anyone feeds their dog. I've found that fresh, whole raw foods work best for my dogs and I like to share that experience and to compare it to my past experiences with processed foods. I hope that helps to clear up any confusion that may be out there regarding my posts in this thread. But feel free to PM or e-mail if you think I've omitted something. I'd be more than happy to sort it out. Don't expect an unbiased response to this post: KK sells a "leading brand" of kibble with the initials RC. LM - Where the hell do you get off calling my integrity into question and making out that my opinion is bought and paid for by Royal Canin? This is not the first time you have made this intimation and i am far from impressed. Tho it doesn't add much to your argument if all you can come up with is that i work for RC 4 hours a fortnight and so MUST be biased! Oh Please! I've probably recommended ProPlan more then RC on DOL - I only recommend foods that i have seen have good results from - Be that RC, Proplan, Euk, Advance, Barf etc etc...i have even recommended Supercoat, Optimum, and Pedigree Performance depending on the occasion (eg, $$ = what they buy - as in if the dog does well...then great...and the kibbles are better then Pal). Oh and LM I considered Royal Canin a great dog food before i started working a few hours with them instead of the, so far, two other companies that have offered me like work. I could give you good and bad reports on all food, Barf, EP and RC included...but i can't be bothered as it still comes under what i believe eg that "The best food for your dog is the food they do best on, packaged or unpackaged!" Zorro - I checked the RC bag i have and it does indeed contain the anti-oxident BHA but it doesn't include the other two. I've taken note of the three things you have listed and it will be interesting to see if other companies list one of more of those. I do know that several of the super premium foods use by-products which was a surprise. And yes, my GSD does better on a mix of Raw and Dry - on Raw/Barf alone his coat went ratty and dry and horrible, he lost weight (huge amounts of raw did not keep any weight on - any more weight lost and i'd have been reported to the RSPCA i'm sure - perhaps a slight exaguration (sp) ;) but you get my drift) his nose went all dry and crusty and he just wasn't looking as good as he could have. Within weeks of being on Dry with Raw on the side he was looking great, keeping weight on (tho that was a bit of a battle to start with) his fur was looking and feeling decent again etc etc. All in all it's not a choice i would make again for him as it didn't suit him. However i know other dogs on Barf who look fantastic and all i can say is 'fantastic for them' - but it doesn't suit my mob. KK - I'm not calling your integrity into question. I was simply letting the member know that you have what might be called a vested interest in a particular pet food. I appreciated it when another member let me know this information b/c I had asked you why you threw your support behind it so vehmently...without a response from yourself. And as I keep saying, it doesn't matter to me what anyone feeds their dog/s. I share my experience, opinions and what works for me and my dogs. What is wrong with that? You provide your experiences, I provide mine. I really don't see what the problem is here. I say my dogs do best on raw, whole foods - this is true. You say your dogs do best on kibble with raw on the side - I also assume this to be true or you wouldn't post it. I'm not questioning your integrity, or honesty, or anything else. I hope there is nothing wrong with me providing my experiences when a poster asks? I thought that was one purpose of these forums - to share experiences and provide help/info/advice if asked?

Actually, I reckon feed your dog whatever suits you and it...it makes no difference to me. But in sharing MY experiences with processed foods vs home prepared raw, whole foods diet, and in explaining my reasons for choosing the latter, I hope to be helping others to understand that pet food makers really don't care about your pet except for the fact that they make money when you buy their product. They don't have to use quality ingredients in this country, so they rarely do that. Horse meat is cheap, plentiful and available. It's illegal to use horse meat in places such as the US, b/c it's also illegal to slaughter horses for consumption (human or otherwise). Every horse carcass apparently has to be accounted for. Makes me wonder why this is so, when horses are used in pet foods here daily! As for preservatives, they're not found in the ingredients used to make these dog foods but manufactured so that the already going off meat products in your dogs' food is stopped from complete breakdown before your pet ingests it. BARF products such as Dr B's patties do not contain artificial preservatives and I'm not sure if they contain natural ones, but they are frozen at the factory and as such, I would suggest they do not need extra preservatives. I use my natural approach to feeding myself as well as my dogs. I feel much healthier than I have in years...I guess that it's working for me!

A few thoughts about your intentions: 1. Breed - the Siberian Husky is not for the "average" person but a committed and experienced handler who is willing and able to put in plenty of time in obedience work (for starters), and who is prepared to house the dog in a safe and comfortable manner. These dogs are excellent escape-artists and will scramble over fences 12 feet high (and more!). An anti-climb bias installed to the top of your fence is a very wise investment IMO. Where you live (climate) has a say in whether this dog is suited to you as well, b/c they don't do very well in extremely hot conditions. The amount of physical work these dogs need is substantial or you may end up with behavioural problems. They are bred to pull sleds. They need to have some kind of activity that replicates this workload. If you're not already involved, can I suggest you join a breed club and perhaps a sledding club? 2. Puppy raising - is not something to skimp on. You need to put in the time to train a pup...to socialise it...to nurture it...to teach it your rules of the household...to show it leadership...to engage its natural drives and instincts so that it works with you rather than against you. Pups need three feeds daily until at least 16 wks of age...some breeds and/or individuals need this for longer than that. If you can't get home, then someone you *trust* needs to do so. You can do this if you are willing and able to put in the effort. But please research the breed - source registered breeders in your area, visit their kennels, discuss the pro's and con's of the breed (and if the breeder says there are no con's, run away!), and take your time in deciding whether an arctic working dog is right for you or not. Oh, and if you do decide on the Husky, get some earplugs! Their howling is something else.

Hey, I thought we were trying to help you to learn about what is normal pup behaviour and how to manage that pup. But every suggestion we gave seemed to fall on deaf ears, and now you come back claiming to know better b/c of someone you know that trains security dogs? I thought it was police dogs? And when a very experienced person here attempted to explain that dog training isn't simple, that aggression and dominance are not necessarily the same thing, you write the above post in response. :rolleyes: Oh, please! If you're suggesting that this person you know physically harmed this dog, and that this dog is now perfectly well-behaved, and you wish to try something like this with your next dog, then go for your life! But you will likely ruin the dog - if you are seeking a companion that is likely to have predictable and manageable behaviours...this may not be the most appropriate methodology to follow. JMHO.

I used to travel past a dog food manufacturer's operation every day. I could always tell when they had killed the horses...the stench is *awful*. "Meat" in dog food is most often derived from horses in this country. "Meat by-products" are also often sourced from horse carcasses. The usual bits of the animals and birds used in pet foods are anything that isn't fit for our tables (for those ppl that eat meat, at least), and include: intestines, feet, feathers, eyes, sinew and tendon (humans can't eat these at all!), pieces of heads including ears and mouth parts, organs not fit for human consumption (you really don't want to know!), and other bits and pieces that have been extruded to form a kind of glutenous mass. The stench alone is enough to cause retching in humans not accustomed to it. Some companies use some types of muscle meat, usually these components are added if they are about to go "off" and therefore can't be used for human consumption. And anything that has been contaminated at the slaughterhouse that can't be sold for humans is added to the pet food mix. The oils used in pet foods are usually only those that can no longer be used for human consumption, such as recycled cooking oils that are blended together. Yodeller has it right on all counts. Of course, some manufacturers use higher quality ingredients. But this is rare in Australia b/c the industry here is completely unregulated and can literally put whatever it pleases into pet foods. It's one reason why I don't trust locally made pet foods and why I only recommend those made from overseas sources such as the USA, where there are relatively strict pet food guidelines in place. But I feed raw, whole foods and I know what my dogs are eating b/c it's right there in front of me.

I'm not so sure about that. I thought it was because of all the additives in dog food and fresh dog meat etc. and the culmulative effects of same. Oh, no, Abergavenny, that couldn't be right! A processed dog food responsible for making dogs sick! Fancy that!

Thanks to Nekhbet for bringing a little more sanity to this thread. Now if only Nike would accept this information in the spirit it is offered: the voice of experience is offered by many to help many and we all have something to contribute. I use only positive reinforcement b/c it's the most effective method I've found to interact with my dogs. I tried the "pull 'em round the oval with the check-chain" obedience school more than 25 yrs ago. That didn't work well for the canine/human relationship over the long term. My parents tried the "rub their nose in it" methods 40 yrs ago. That didn't work well for the canine/human relationship over the long term. I then tried the "let's reward the desired behaviour, re-direct the natural behaviours that cause ME a problem, and ignore the behaviours I really want to oust" and guess what? Yep, these things work to build a happy, successful and caring relationship between the canine and the human. I've ended up with dogs that have manageable behaviours that are still permitted to express themselves as dogs through appropriate activities, toys, training and exercise. I've had seven dogs in my life thus far. The first two were childhood dogs that were outdoor dwellers...I loved them dearly and didn't always understand their motivations and behaviours, BUT I knew that kindness won out over a harsh word or worse. My next dog was trained using positive reinforcement but I also used a check chain initially b/c I thought I "had to"...that was drilled into me by the obedience club instructors b/c I suppose that was all they knew at the time. I eventually threw that darned chain into the bin where it belonged and built a much better relationship with the dog in question, with love, kindness and rewards. Our knowledge of dogs changes all the time...we either move with the times, or get left behind. If we move forward, IMO our dogs can only benefit. OTOH, if we continue to use outdated methods to "train" our dogs, not only do they suffer, but *we* suffer, b/c our dogs do not give us their entire "true self". In order to work with a dog, we need to understand them. They are NOT wolves, contrary to popular belief. They are a domesticated species. They may have some behaviours in common with wild canids, but they are no longer wild themselves. There is a very distinct difference between a wild canid's life and that of a domestic dog.

Or for bringing children into this world, unfortunately. Yep, on both counts, it's a shame.

Don't expect an unbiased response to this post: KK sells a "leading brand" of kibble with the initials RC. My dogs are raw fed and they have never been better. IMO most dogs do much better on foods that are as unadulterated as possible and raw foods of good quality are exactly that. As to the question posted, Pedigree All Natural is just cheap food packaged to appeal to consumers who *think* the brand's new formula must be good! Anything that is that processed, that is that highly coloured, cannot be all natural.

Cactus, I hate to say this, but *most* ppl that have a dog or dogs are like this bloke: ignorant and foolish. It's just one reason why I didn't stay working at the shelter...I didn't appreciate all the dumb-arse ideas/comments/notions out there in the dog-owning community. These ppl shouldn't have dogs as pets, the most they could hope for is a pet rock...but there is no exam to pass before obtaining a dog. Too sad.