jackie_a1

I was quite insulted by the insinuation I did not do any research prior to owning both breeds and that I was some sort of idiot because of the way I was handling the situation. There is a diverse range of opinions as to what YOU would have done or what SHOULD have been done. But none of those happened I handled the situation as I saw fit obviously I am seeking advice because of my concern. I am extremely happy to say there has not been any incidents since last night but they are still being supervised. Tomorrow will be supervised outside play so it wasn't a case of them just behaving inside. I feel a combination of the professional advice and desexing him will help to ensure the situation will not worsen. I'm glad it was as simple as bathing Boss and not euthanasia as a few of you suggested. Thanks to those who said it might be the smell I thought it may have been part of it but not the cause. Oh and quick edit to say one post asked how many fights Razor has won? Zero. He has never fought with another dog other than Lucky and because Lucky was larger, and more experienced Razor never won a fight although I never let them fight it out I always intervened. I would never let any of my dogs fight it out ever. UNLESS breaking it up would cause a human harm then unfortunately I would. But I've never been in that situation with my own dogs. I always have just grabbed the hose.

Nekhbet just read your post and thankyou. Well the situation was I heard the fight and came out and split it up. I didn't see Raze annoying Boss or otherwise I would have told him straight away to leave the puppy alone. When I catch him humping I always tell him to stop but he only had started once Boss got brought home. It wasn't too much at first maybe once a day I caught him mounting but before yesterday the day before that he seemed to be sniffing him and taking a little more interest in his scent. I would watch him but he wouldn't mount just sniff his backside and his tummy look around then sit down. But I have witnessed him mounting him so I assumed that's what he was doing which he was. But the few times I saw him get humped Boss just stood there then by that time I have already reprimanded Razor so I haven't seen Boss react. No denying Razor has dominance issues. I know this. In saying this to clear this up. When I say Razor is dominant is that he does not hump or growl or ever behave like that with other dogs. I mean when he greets dogs he is dominant. High tail flag, hackles up, ears pricked forward and very alert. He walks over to the dog all the above signs sniffs them and that is it. That is what I mean he is dominant I have never met a dog question this. As in I have never met a dog bite him or growl etc. Once they greet he is happy as long as the dog isn't overly excitable barking at him snapping at him. Razor has never displayed any aggressive behaviour to ANY dog OTHER than Lucky (my deceased dog) his litter mate and now Boss (who also lives with him.) He has met another entire male dog (another dolers german shepard) and they walked and interact together fine off and on leash. I will leave the professional opinion to the behaviourist but I do realise he has aggression issues by no means am I in denial.

Ok to be honest haven't read through all the replies but from what I've seen let me address some of the questions and assumptions. Yes I may have been lax with the description of the wounds. By puncture I mean there is a wound where the skin has been taken off. There is missing hair and some skin missing but this morning was a scab. Above his eye is a missing piece of fur as well so I assume it's from a bite. That is puncture to me because I know its from a bite so even though it's a scratch it's still a puncture from a tooth to me. Yes it sounded like a big deal because it was a big deal to me. If it sounded more serious that was because I was concerned because Razor had never attacked the puppy prior. I didn't research and say they were great together. I found Boss and it was a rescue situation I didn't plan to bring another dog into the house hold until I saw Boss I wasn't looking because I had just put Lucky down. So please don't judge me and think I went out and looked specifically for this breed let alone dog. And to the comment regarding me not wanting advice bull crap straight out. I've taken everything into account including making it clear they were separate today if not able to be supervised. They were kept inside all day and no incidents. My friend bathed Boss and since then Razor has taken no interest in him. The vet said that Bosses wounds weren't cause for worry they just need not be scratched at. Because the skin is healing over and if he continues to scratch will open the wound. To the people who suggested it may be the smell spot on. The vet also said sometimes if bitches on heat have been in prior to Boss he may carry the smell and it may arouse Razor into the mating behaviour. Explains the mounting etc. I am still getting Raze desexed and am going to research a few trainers. Now I will go back and try to re read the posts make some clarity of your insults.

Asha I have done a lot of research into bull breeds before even owning one. I know what breeds are suitable for Razor and which aren't. Razor is very dog orientated but I see now however he may prefer to LIVE by himself. If this does escalate I will be separating them permanently obviously it's without question. It may however not. And once Razor is desexed and consulted by the behaviourist then I will make my decision. Until such time I am doing everything to keep my dogs welfare in mind.

He has already been brought back to the vet for his check up he has no external stitches I asked specifically for none cause I knew he'd bite at them. His wound is completely healed the vet said it was fine no swelling and I was able to let him outside get wet play etc. Which is why he is back outside. Aussie it is just that YOUR GUESS. He is happy living with him considering this is the first incident occurring, they sleep, eat and play together. You are assuming that there will be fights every few months? I will not let the fighting continue. Boss was brought into the house hold as company for Razor. Boss loves Razor if there were any signs otherwise I am not ignorant and would have identified them. Just because there was a minor tiff you think they hate each other? Please don't portray Razor to be mauling the poor defenseless puppy monah. That was Razor and Bosses first incident. Prior to this they lived happily. If Razor was continually attacking Boss (As of last night they were inside and I supervised all night no incidents) then I would definitely be fearing for Boss. They are outside and they will be supervised today as I have a friend home. There is two puncture wounds on both side of his neck they are scabs I just went and touched it, they are not deep they are quite small and has a nick above his eye. Other than that this morning he is fine. Thankyou to those who posted advice and not judgement.

And Gilly Razor never actually provoked the attack with Lucky. All he used to do was growl and that was enough to set Lucky off (mind you Lucky was DA when I first rescued him from the pound). But with Boss I wasn't there to see how it started. But Razor usually just growls and the other dog initiates however because Bossington would never initiate I do think Razor was responsible for the attack.

Thanks Aussie I thought so too. Seems now a days easiest option is to put the dog down, although that might be a recommendable solution for an inexperienced owner I am willing to fix the problem.

Pers sorry just re- read your post. No no I don't want this thread to get out of hand please. My dogs will live together and are living together happily. If at any stage I think Razor and Boss are not suitable to be living together bet your candy ass I will separate them. BUT one fight will not make me think this. If the fighting continues and grows worse then I will be considering if it is best for them to be separated or live apart etc but if a fight occurs once every few months that is not reason for me to seperate them permanently. They are dogs. Dogs behave like dogs. Its my decision as a responsible owner when to decide when the situation is too serious. At the moment it isn't a matter that makes me fear for the safety of my dogs. And I hope people aren't assuming this will necessarily get worse. I am doing everything I can to ensure it doesn't. Many dogs have minor fights living in a household together. I tend to not over react. (edit to write permanently)

Thanks Pers. Tatelina please enlighten me as to why it is not the experienced dog handler thing to do? I do not tolerate humping in my household PERIOD. Under NO circumstances is humping allowed in my house regardless of what is humping or being humped. Cordelia Razor weighs forty kilos and Boss is half his size. If Razor was trying to damage he would have done alot more. Razor is used to fighting with a seventy kilo dane cross mastiff so when he attacked Boss he does not decipher difference. When Lucky and Razor would fight it would be serious by which I mean there was intention and they were very hard to break up. There were many other contributing factors also but the fighting never resembled what is happening to Razor and Boss. Whilst Razor still did attack Boss it was not severe nor do I think it was means for euthanasia. I like to think I know my dogs and breed very well. Euthanasia for Razor will only come if he attacks without provocation a human or another animal WHICH he has not done in my four years of owning him. A fight for dominance or excitement is a very different occurrence ESPECIALLY seeing as its a one time occurrence which I am trying my best to amend. Now in stating this it wasn't a fully fledged attack where in both canines were aggressive simply because once I came oustside and called Razor's name sternly he backed off immediately and went to his bed. When Lucky and Razor fought I would hose both of them still didn't break it up. To some of you this might be terms for euthanasia but I know my dogs and I know it's simply Razor being dominant. Now I'm not retarded I do realise this may escalate which is why I'm trying to fix this as soon as possible. There hasn't been another fight since, but I will not be home today so I will se what happens when I get home from tafe. I will book Raze in for desexing next week anyway I am a responsible dog owner they are my kids. I will do as much as possible before even considering euthanasia ESPECIALLY when I just put down Lucky in Feburary.

Very hard to separate them as my yard is not big enough to give them each sufficient room, plus Boss would become distressed because he loves his mate. My reaction to Razor's humping was to discipline him immediately with a stern no and he quickly gets off. Boss just stands there and takes it. But I think lately he is getting irritated and starting to snap and that's whats triggering the fights.

Ok so here is the quick run down before I post. Razor is my bullmastiff cross pitbull he is a male entire four years old. I bought him from a pet shop (bom bom don't worry I know) and he was sold to me originally as a bullmastiff cross aussie bulldog but upon further scrutiny the owner told me his breed and said he didn't advertise them as the actual breed because he didn't want to 'put buyers off?' ANYWAYS. When Razor was a puppy in the pet shop he was growling at his litter mate whilst eating and his litter mate was timid and scared so I chose Razor as I thought he was the dominant dog and I did not want the scared timid puppy who seemingly was the runt. Continuation he is a great dog loving very social boy loves dogs and my cats (well he is terrified of my cats) and gets on well with other dogs so long as its established he is dominant and I have not met one dog challenge this. Anyway my point is he is a great all round dog. But I came home from work today to hear yelping and fighting I went outside and told Razor off as he had just attacked Bossington. Bossington is my american stafford cross pitt and he is six and a half months old and he was desexed eight days or so ago. Now the problem is as soon as I brought Boss back from the vet Razor kept mounting and licking him and continues to do so. They have never fought prior to this and poor Boss is covered in bite puncture wounds etc. It was not a serous attack but I know it will escalate as Boss begins to grow and realise he doesn't have to cop it. Prior to Boss'es desexing they have not fought, Razor has never tried to mount him and there has not been any problems. I brought Boss home to keep Razor company as he was extremely depressed having lpst Lucky and is very dog orientated. So here's my question. Would desexing Razor help with any of his behavioural issues? I don't care I'm happy to desex him regardless if it works or not. However I need a solution for this. Razor and Lucky used to fight quite alot (both entire males BOTH competing for top dog) However Boss is not dominant quite submissive and there is no questioning Razor is Boss so? Boss and Razor both get sufficient exercise (except for days I'm too tired) they get a minimum two hours a day, on the flirt pole, then at the park, then swimming. I find that exercising helps with 'some' of the aggression but I cannot always manage to exercise them and need to know there will not be any tiffs. If Razor does not improve after desexing his options are scarce. No flaming also I need advice not lectures. Tah in advance.

So then saying that if it was you bitten would you still be so quick to ease blame? You have to put it in context. I do not think she was getting in its space they were attending an event for a pet shop day being exposed to different people in small spaces would not have been unexpected. People bring their dogs to these days knowing there will be an array of people and other pets. I do not think the dog had justification of being threatened she was approaching with a treat. But Der you don't know if this dog was well socialized and stable. We don't know anything about the dog. There is a big difference being unsure if your dog is going to bark in public to being unsure if your dog is going to lunge at someone's face and bite their lip. You cannot say dogs are dogs they will behave like dogs. So if Razor bit a child I'd just say he's never shown any aggression towards kids before, he was just being a dog. Dogs are dogs. And that means I am not responsible? I think we need to stop trying to lay the blame solely on the staff member and realise there are both parties to blame here. The staff member who may have incorrectly approached the dog triggering the behaviour. The owner who did not have correct control over his dog. That's it. The pet shop should not be blamed they organized what they thought was going to be a fun event and it turned pear shape that doesn't mean no more days like this should be continued because of one incident that quite frankly could have been avoided with basic animal education.

Same here Aussie I am exactly the same. There is no justification of the dog biting the staff member period. If it was scared or the dog felt threatened or felt the need to protect itself and owner then it was the owners responsibility to A) Not bring a dog that is of risk to the general public to the store or B) Be able to correctly handle and restrain the dog.

Well Becks I disagree strongly. The dog has bitten once serious enough that the ladies lip was bleeding and she was injured. That is a SERIOUS bite. Any intention to bite to me is serious. Of course I would not get the dog put down and I have no intention of promoting that the dog be put down at all. HOWEVER the dog has bitten once in public to a stranger. Are you really going to continue to walk this dog unmuzzled at the risk that the incident can occur not with an adult staff member but to perhaps a child? If the owner couldn't decipher it's dogs behaviour, regardless if it was fearful, uncomfortable or aggressive then the dog needs to be correctly restrained. So you're going to risk taking the dog out because he only bit once and he may not do it again. Or the lady approached him wrong so that justifies the dog biting her? No that is a wrong sentiment and responsibility needs to be assigned correctly. Do I think the dog is savage? No. Do I think the lady may have approached the dog wrong? Possibly? Does that justify the fact the dog bit the lady? NO. I think people are forgetting that this was a pet shop. This wasn't at the local dog park where she needs permission to ask to approach the dog or the mans home and I realise you generally always need permission to pat a strange dog but this was the store she was working at and had confidence in the fact that the dogs that were going to come in were most likely going to be friendly. She did not take into account that there could have been an aggressive dog and yes this leads back to my earlier statement about proper training and education for staff. I love rotts I owned one beautiful dog. But in order for this dog to live a long and peaceful existence, it's owner needs better control of its dog otherwise perhaps the next time he lunges it could be fatal and no one should be willing to take that risk. So basically. Muzzle the dog in future.

Firstly. I hate pet shops. I don't discriminate I hate them equally. Simply because the staff are usually undertrained, under experienced and sometimes under aged to deal with issues like this. You don't need any qualifications to work at pet shop although you are handling LIVE animals. You should need to have basic training FOR ANY job dealing with companion or captive animals. Now not laying the blame on the girl at all but with adequate training the staff would and should be better equipped for any incidents occurring regardless if they are similar to this or not. We don't know the details of the story but I don't care. NO DOG in public should ever bite a person. Regardless if the dog thought it was protecting itself or it's owner the dog should not be allowed unmuzzled. The dog and it's owner have to be able to correctly assess what is a threat to them and what is simply a lady offering a treat. If the dog cannot correctly decipher the difference itself (between something that is a threat and something that is not) then the owner then has to identify that the dog is unpredictable and will show signs of aggression and obviously will bite. So therefore the OWNER IS responsible. He did not correctly ensure he knew his dog and it's temperament therefore putting a staff member in direct danger. Spin it anyway you want. It was not the staff members fault. She came into work thinking this was another doggy day thought the dog was socialised and approachable and would not get her lip bitten off. Everyone has the right to be safe in their own home as well as work. She may have not read the dogs signs or body language properly but so? The dog was in the store. Not in its own yard, or bed, which doesn't justify the reaction but would clarify it a little. The dog was out in public where there are plenty of roaming kids. She shouldn't have to pay for it with her face. The owner should not have brought his dog in. If this was the first time the dog had ever snapped or showed any aggression (which I doubt) but if it was the first time. Well he knows his lesson now. Quick edit to say, Kiwi regardless if she approached the dog incorrectly it SHOULD NOT have bitten at her face. I need to reiterate this is a public store and place. The dog should not have lunged or bitten. If you approach my dog in the wrong way I guarantee he would not bite your lip off. He would stare at you with a WTF look?

Also to add I realise this story was trying to give both view points of the pitbull. But as usual they failed. Miserably. The article did no justice for the pitbull, gave no hard evidence in defense of the animal, did not let the public aware that pitbulls are used as therapy dogs, they serve in the army, they are family dogs etc. The reputation needs to improve as does the reporting.

I guess you can call it pretty detailed because it's not the usual, Pitbull attacks child, Today a dog that is believed to be a pitbull attacked a child. The dog mauled the childs face and left the child needing thirty stitches. The dog which was described as muscular, strong jaws and a large head attacked the child whilst it was visiting the house the dog was kept. Witnesses that saw the dog said it looked like a pitbull the dog has since been destroyed. That's pretty much every story in the media so I guess when you compare it to the normal media stories yes this is detailed. But is it accurate nope. Do I like this story. Nope. Was it constructed with the breeds compassion in mind? Nope. But then again when is a story about pitbulls ever constructed like that. I'm going to dissect this to show you why I dislike this story. Not really sure what that statement was trying to achieve but all it showed me was that the president of the RSPCA has called for a mass extermination and because of his position I have to believe him too. If the president of the rspca says it, it must be true. I actually didn't mind his statement until we reached the unpredictable part. Idiot. ALL ANIMALS ARE UNPREDICTABLE. They are animals. They are a a slave to their genes and instinct. It is our job as the humans the more (advanced) race (yeh right) to guide these animals/pets to ensure that behaviours like these are controlled or modified or destroyed if ANY life is at threat. Any dog is unpredictable regardless of the breed. I got attacked by a Pomeranian at work who two minutes earlier I was cuddling. BAN THEM ALL. Yes WHO would want to own a dog like this? Lets elloborate shall we, the hate seems to stem from the fact that the dog was bred to fight. In a pit inevitably so lets remove the pit and let the public know what other breeds were bred for fighting. Bull terrier, Shar-Pei, Akita, Stafford Bull terrier etc. So lets ban them too. Because they are unpredicatble muscular monsters that put our lives in danger. What SORT of person would want to own one? Lets see Hellen Keller and Theodore Roosevelt for one... http://hubpages.com/hub/Famous_Pit_Bulls And you represent everything that is moronic.

Ok read this article I own both pitbull crosses so I need to put my two cents in. Firstly regarding this comment. Moselle. I am aware of my dogs history, breed origins, purpose, descendants etc. Please don't try to put me on a moron and say bull/pitt owners do not acknowledge this fact. In fact I spent years researching the breed before I decided (be it a cross) that the breed was for me. There are no excuses on my end nor do I see many excuses from RESPONSIBLE bull/pitt owners. If Razor or Boss got out and mauled two dogs I would know one) I did not provide them adequate socialization two) I did not provide them with correct confinement/enclosure three) it was me who failed at some point the dogs. Now the reason why people use the term crosses is simply this. The APBT is NOT a registered breed in Australia. Meaning it cannot be shown, it does not come with papers, it doesn't have a whole lot of responsible and ethical breeders in its favour. It is VERY hard to say with plausibility if the dog is in fact a pure bred pitbull. How can you be sure if there are no breeders and or papers to track the dog back to? You are just going to assume it has a red nose and coat it's a pitbull. I always list down dogs in the pound as pitbull crosses. I am not condemning a dog to death based on MY opinion. Which is just what this whole rant of yours is. Your opinion. You are not a scientist with the DNA evidence to prove anything so you and I cannot say anything is a purebred without proof and evidence. Otherwise it's just ignorance. Both my dogs are beautiful crosses or not. And I will defend their right to exist regardless of the fight.

On the topic of snobbing does anyone else get the third degree because they own entire pets? I take my dogs into tafe whenever we have a prac day and I was in the library with Razor (my tafe is dog friendly and you are allowed to bring your dogs in if you sign a form notify the teachers etc) who was sleeping happily next to his best friend Nala (a gorgeous coker) and was approached by a woman who said to me, 'Is that dog entire?' I said yes THAT dog is and he is mine what is the problem. She said we don't like entire dogs here. They are far too aggressive and uncontrollable. I said well I spoke to the head teacher and she said it was fine his entirety does not affect his temperament. She said. Why would you not desex him? Are you planning to breed? I said no. I don't plan to breed I have no intentions to breed my dogs EVER. At this point the argument was beginning to get heated so I decided to remove myself from the library. I posted a thread recently speaking about the de-sexing debate. Yes I think it would be desirable that companion pets be desexed but it's not mandatory. SO DON'T JUDGE ME! Boss is entire and so is Razor. Razor never humps, nor does Boss, he marks but so? My dogs will never breed. I keep them at ALL times contained to my yard etc I am a more than a responsible owner so don't pass judgement on me.

Plus one million for Poodle, well said. I cop my fair share of the snubbing. I own two cross breeds and they both are cross pitbull. It is not normally the 'your dog is a mongrel' lecture I get it's the your dogs are of bad breeds, they will turn on you, they are untrustworthy, they are savage I could go on. I learn to smile it off. Because Razor is so savage he screams when the cat is near him. I just try to rant as quickly and politely as possible so people don't mistake my lecture as defensiveness. I try my best not to get upset during the moment so the people or person don't misconstrue it as the truth hurts type of thing. But I'll have my say and regardless if they listen or not you tried your best to give them a small dosage of the rare syrup called intelligence.

I wrote this for Doug, If Heaven is anything like, what it was to live with you. Then I already know Heaven and I know now what I must do. It's time my journey ends now for I have reached the pearly gates. Boy are they shiny they look like my empty dinner plate. I can see so many dogs here and they all are filled with love. Even so I will still deeply miss your hugs. If I had to make a list of everything I will miss There would be no list as it would be endless. I miss your warmness that would come when you hug me. I miss that you would reassure me if anyone would call me ugly. I miss my mundane day as just being a pug. I miss the way you called out my name Doug. I miss the food and all the tv. I even miss the trips to the vets where the vet would poke me. I miss my house, my family and my bed. But I will live on for eternity I am not dead. When you call my name, or think about me in the car. When you cry unexpectedly or when it's too hard. Remember the love we shared and how it was so pure. And remember everything that we did endure. I love you master but I must return home. There's someone here holding a big bone. For you Doug, Im still crying cause I'm raw still from Lucky. Travel well little man,

I hope this thread doesn't turn into an Islam, Muslim bashing thread. I really do. My brother is a practicing muslim STRICT practicing muslim I own two dogs and when he lived with me he had no problems with my dogs. He respected that my dogs live inside travel etc so this is not a blanket attitude for all muslims. Also many of my muslim friends own dogs and actually I sold a puppy (I work at a shelter) to a lovely Muslim family a few weeks back. I'm not going into the religion debate but to each his own. (Edited to add the word bashing minus it and the sentence does NOT look good )

Poor thing. Is she eating and everything ok? Razor wasn't really eating much half of what he is now and he really wouldn't do anything. All he did was sleep and be so clingy. I didn't want to keep doting on him in case he started playing me While he was depressed I went out of my way to keep him occupied I'd drive him to my gfs farm so he could play with one of his missus, then I'd take him to the national park near my area to swim and meet other dogs etc. He'd be having the time of his life while he was out then he'd come home and mope around and a few times I heard him doing this weird howl. It wasn't a normal howl it was like a cry/whine/howl...

Guys read this thread I think it will explain: http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=196142 Stef I think Saffron is depressed. When Lucky passed Razor would sit alone in the shed and howl waiting for Lucky to come back. Took him a month or so to get back to normal then a few months after that we got Boss and he was smitten. Poor baby

Hey Mel, Sometimes people don't supply their emails so people are forced to contact them directly so they can 'weed' out the serious buyers. Your best option is either calling the number or messaging the number asking for an email address as it would be easier for you to contact them on it. O.P I did a post on a byber from gumtree recently and it is your business. If no one gets concerned then these people run unchecked they are money hungry and that is all they focus on. So good on you for caring about this poor girl, and yes her owners are just as responsible for her. I would do a four interview process if I ever had to rehome any of my pets and probably make the new owner sit a test