herding_guy

Julie and everyone, this is a very interesting thread. However I am getting very confused by your terminology. You are all talking as if there is only one drive and nobody has really talked about the drive in question. I am assuming we are talking prey drive. When I am training my dogs I am mostly training in prey drive but I also use the other drives to shift the dogs focus off the prey and back to me. To do this I need to shift the dog into defence then to pack. Not easy when we are talking pure predatory animals like a hard a#*e herding dog. To heel a dog away from the sheep he needs to be shifted from predatory to pack through defence as heeling with alpha is not a behaviour conducive with predatory drive. The only way to do this is to move the dog into defence whilst adding a cue. However I could heel the dog toward the sheep but he would be orientating (eyeing) the sheep not me and he would hardly be in a classic heelng stature. K9, you mentioned in one of your posts about Julies correction extinguishing drive, what drive? to me this is shifting drive from one to another through defence as mentioned above. Maybe I'm missing something here Julie you will see prey drives at there peak when you put Jyra in with sheep if we didn't try to control her but lets not go there :p Dave

Hi, 14 weeks is a great age to introduce to safe sheep. As this is a critical time in the socialisation period this is where you can make or break a dog. My dogs have been introduced to sheep at the age of 6 weeks, some get in there nd start covering and balancing like they were doing it for years and some run away. It's up to you what you want to do. Remember I do also hold private lessons for people and if you wnt to just come out and socialise the dog to sheep thats okay too. Don't leave it to late though. I do have some 14 week old borders coming out on Sunday...3 I think. Dave

Natalie, Recieved with many thanks. Confirmed 2 people and 3 dogs for Sat 1st October. Cheers, David.

Yes, recieved slip and cheque...thanks. Look forward to seeing the GSD working. David.

I wish you'd come to one of my classes at the school I instruct at. I give a lot of theory whilst persons are practicing repititions, I have been told I go a little too far sometimes but I try to keep it simple ..I can see the ones who understand and want to learn more so I make time for them after class. I must be very lucky, because the school I instruct at teaches many different methods to suit the many types of dogs and handlers. So therefore I get to teach methods I use on my dogs. I'm into training in drives and so is the school I instruct at. Some people just want a well mannered dog and some want an obedience champion, it is the instructors job to know this and to cater for every individual. No one should comprimise. IMO A training school that teaches one method to all is not worth sticking at. Dave

I use the exact same method on my unruly pups. I wait until they show appeasement and then slowly loosen the grip until I am eventually stroking the calm dog and then everything is back to normal and we are best mates again. It's probably best you are shown this method before giving it a go. You are now obviously very angry at the pup for this behaviour show start showing your anger to the pup. You don't need to hit or be rough just give some of that angry energy you have bottled up. Let the dog know you are angry, very angry. Imagine this pup was a fully grown dog biting an infant....how angry would you be then. I wish I was in Sydney ....I'd help you for nothing. I agree with "ditch your behavourist" and start up in a good training school. Dave.

Here's my tip... Take you and your parents to a breeder who has a bitch with a good size litter of 6 weeks old. Someone on this list may help. Watch what the bitch does to discipline the pups everytime a pup bites or annoys her. The bitch ussually growls and snaps at the pup quickly. The jaw snap happens very close to the puppies face, head rarely connecting at all. It's quick, sharp and effective. The pup ussually goes screaming to the farthest corner, whimpering for a while then will return to the mother in a submissive posture moments later. The mother will then accept the pup back by licking. Dogs are our best teachers. Dave

Love to ...all we need is a venue somewhere in the metro area - might talk to some people.

HURRY guys .... not many places left. Drop me a line to confirm your spot. Cheers, Dave.

Great a GSD. Look forward to hearing from you. Dave.

Hi all, I have just emailed an info sheet and remittance form to persons that I had listed as tentative. If you are interested in coming along to the herding day and haven't recieved anything please get back to me ASAP. Cheers, Dave.

...I'l be waiting.

You have new pup????????? How old - obviously young enough to annoying the 2 year old. Your 2 year old might have thought you were the pup annoying him again. They (the older dog) get a little defensive and edgey when a newer pup is on board. This was the same in my case. Dave

This happened to me once with my very soft and gentle 5yo Kelpie male. He was asleep, I moved and he snapped.....I must admit he looked more shocked than I did, actually he looked terrified. IT only happened once and has never happened again but if it happened twice in a short time I would be concerned. I would definitely change your lounging and sleeping arrangements so you dogs are not getting any conflicting messages about pack order. Keeping them lower than you helps ensure they understand the pack order. Make sure they each have a space they can go to and stay when you tell them to. I like to get all my dogs on a 30min to 1 hour drop on there matt (or where ever I tell 'em) every day. A trip to the vet wouldn't be a bad idea. Dave.

No, it's not only for beginners. In fact I think people with a bit of experience will benefit as you guys knw what you need to work on and can use the day appropriately. My intention is to get everyone up to knowing what commands are needed on the dog and how to position the dog / handler / sheep. The first section is all about bringing out the natural instincts of the dog. Then how to put commands on the dog. I will also go through stock sense - and for you more experienced handlers, distance control. If you would like to start using the grounds and sheep to practice, which you are most welcome to, you will need to do at least a one day workkshop so I can ensure the safety of the sheep, your dog and you. Contact me on e-mail [email protected] if you need more information. Cheers, David.

I remeber Fiona ...I had no idea she is now family. Get her to give me a call ....we may have to organise a bus from Frankston. Yes, it is Scout and she saw him on a day that he was at his worst...I was offered a very good price for him that day and started thinking about it bacause he was such a rat bag. Scooter pups are pretty tough dogs...I hope the rotty will be okay Tell her if the pup grows up like his father or Scout she will have a very loyal, honest working, reliable dog that loves to jump. David.

I want to know if he is as pig headed and arrogant as my boy.

Call pm today ...I should be around. We'll get you there somehow. Can the prson with my dogs half brother come and give yogi a lift?????

Tell me more?????

Must get yogibear to the day. I'll see if anyone is coming from down your way and see if they can help. Dave.

THe dates are October 1st or 2nd.

Kelpie I - your good for the ego. The aim/s of the day is to see if you and your dog enjoy yourselves and work as a team. Also learn about those natural behavoural instincts that your dog/s exhibit and get some control over them. Have lots of fun with your dog. I'm also hoping that some people will continue and even start trialling at our fun city slicker events or other events. You may even want to start duck or cattle herding. As I said before, it is addictive. I love it and want to share it with people who enjoy their dogs and wouldn't normally get the chance to try herding because they live in the city. Cheers, David.

Sorry, sounds like I've confused people. $80 for a single day - either Saturday or the Sunday. We will start at 9am and finish when we finish - aim for 5pm (ha ) We will supply refreshments, coffe, tea etc and a BBQ for you to cook up some lunch. Once you have done a day training you are invited back to train any weekend you like for a fee. Hope this clarifies things. I have been inundated with emails and calls and I thought I had replied to everyone. If I havent please let me know. Kelpie_i - Paul taught me most of what I know and your sheep are in good hands. They will be let ou tomorrow to wander the hills - should be fun finding and collecting. Cheers, Dave.

All ages are suitable and I'll cater for the under 8 months. No prior experience is necessary. You need to start somewhere. Please contact me via email. Cheers, David.

I hope I'm guessing this is who I think it is before I say ...I agree. ;)