Pugmum

Thanks Gallowmph. I managed to get an appt with the specialist tomorrow - hows that for lucky, I thought it would be weeks, but they had a slot - I will see what he does and recommends, but will definitely mention this. I believe there is an underlying problem causing the infections (they have not been the same bacteria each time) but regardless, poor Maggies bladder has been irritated for so long it needs all the help it can get. Hopefully I can post an answer after our visit tomorrow (and that I wont by crying when I do) Brigitte (pugmum)

Not sure if this is what you are after but Marni's Herbal (marni's Natural Medicine) - 289 Cross Road, Clarence Gardens - 08 8297 9533 Have a pet specialist that you can take your dog to. I have not been there but know people who have and they all sing their praises. Used to be a huge green leaf painted building, but its more desate now and share premises with 'the complete garden'.

Thanks - I'll definitely get some lamb Chicken necks are not an option - Oatie will choke for sure one day, he's too mutch of a guts. and I can make some yummy soup for them with the soup bones we already have

Thanks ! not sure what a lamb flab is, but I'll ask for them and necks at the butchers. Guess all this would be softer than the beef type soup bones I have been feeding them. Never thought of lamb(would have to keep it away from hubby or he'll slather it in garlic and rosemary and have it in the pan for his dinner ) Yeah, they should be small dogs - mine are quite big (not fat, just over all big) The breeder of Oatie was trying for large pugs. I feel like I'm stretching the truth calling him small

Both my pugs have broken a tooth - the same tooth in fact. Up to this time I was quite proud of myself for having managed to keep Oatie (10yo) and Maggie (9yo) teeth so nice and clean without them having to go the vet for teeth cleaning. The other day I found a huge tooth on the bedroom floor (thanks Oatie!) and it was indeed very clean. It never occurred to me that the bones I was giving them could be too hard ? could they be ? They have been getting soup bones - largish sections with a bit of meat (no pieces of bone that could easily be swallowed) I cant give them chicken necks as Oatie swallows his whole to ensure he is not missing out on the next treat by being busy chewing - then wretches it up..... its ugly. what sort are best for medium dogs ?

Thanks, Maggie does not have kidney or baldder stones - both were checked with xray and ultrasound. She has been on the Hills cd becaue of a few rogue struvite crystals - but that too has cleared. The PH was up around 7 last time it was checked, they expected 6.5 due tot he Hills cd diet, but said that the blood in her urine would have brought up the PH a bit. along with the ab's she is also on anti-infammatory - the dose for this was set for 5 days then reduced. as soon as I reduced the anti-inflammatory she seemed less comfortable and began to squat a bit more. Initially I thought this ab was doing well, but now I think that it got rid of the new infection,but its the Anti-inflammatory that is making the difference to the original bladder problems we had. At present she is back to where we were nearly 3 months ago when we started toget her bladder checked. SHe had gotten steadily worse (always plateau-ing when on ab's of any sort, then deteriorating again when off them) but never getting better than the orginal problem. She's still weeing only small amounts, and seems to have difficulty getting going when she has not gone for a while. The whole squat position is not the same as before she began troubles - she almost looks like she is sitting. I'm getting too stressed - planning to call the specialist and see if I can get her in for csytoscopy so they can hopefully see whatis going on in the bladder wall and urethra.

round and round and round we go..... apparently Maggie has a proteus infection - which I'm told is a round shape - different to the previous infection she had which was a long shape. The proteus infection is apparently also sensitive to many ab's and would not have gone past the previous ab's. Ergo it is a new infection. The vet says that recurrent infections would indicate an underlying cause -normally stones or polyps (I think those are the two he mentioned) both of which have been ruled out with Maggie. We are keeping her on the current ab's for a longer period (longer than he wanted, but I'm learning to be very pushy ) and then he says we'll need to have a cystoscopy doen to have a look if another infection appears. If he is correct, then she should at some stage have gotten better with the ab's she has had, but this has not been the case through any of the treatments. Only this last one has made some improvement. It just does not sound right. My big question for today is - can i take her to the herbal place while she is on the ab's ? would starting her on a natural remedy interfere withthe ab's do you think? I'm not going to ask the vet as they will undoubtably say dont do it - but they are not exactly inspiring confidence at the moment. Would you go with natural treatment at the same time as ab's ?

The 'do nothing' scenario' did not last long, Maggie seemed to get worse (going out every hour at night etc) and last Friday she came in with blood on her. A sample of her urine looked like someone had cut themselves A different vet at our regular practice looked at her and said they would send off for a cutlure and sensitivity test and if that still came back clear then she'd need a cystoscopy done at the specialist. He put her on anti-inflammatory and a more obscure ab (I dont have the name on me). the Anti-inflammatory made her more confortabel straight away and on day 5 of the ab she seemed to need to squat less. That was yesterday, and this morning she was still squatting less than a week ago. I'm beginning to be hopeful that this can be fixed. we get the results tomorrow. She has had all these tests before though - so that is a bit confusing. I dont know wether to be very, very cross they didn't do more sooner - or very, very happy that at last they are. As for the carpet - a 3 yo light carpet and sick dog do not mix. I am so good at claening patches that the patches I have cleaned are lighter than the carpet aournd it. As soon as my princess is better the carpet can be announced DOA and a more suitblel replacement found. It will be cheap compared to the vet bills.

I found some conflcting and confusing info when looking at fish oil for my pugs - eventually got the doggy specialist at the referral centre here in Adelaide to give me the correct dose. 1000 mg per 10kg dog weight (per day) for general wellbeing - up to double that per day for a dog with heart problems. He told me I could give my 9 kg pug between 1000mg and 2000mg per day safely. I dont know what too much would be, but you are certainly not over dosing your dog at the level you are giving them now.

Hi , I got a lot of conflicting information about fish oil - eventually I tied down the specialist my dog sees to get a more definitive answer. He says on average it is 500 mg per 10lb wieght (so 1000mg per 10 kg dog weight) and double that for dogs with heart problems. That is a daily dose. My 10kg dog gets a 1000mg dose each day (she does not have a heart problem). For the glucosamine chondroitin I had to be a bt less specific - the container I use provides a scoop and the dosage is 2 scoops per day for an adult. I figure my girl is about an a sixth to eighth of an adults weight so she gets about 1 third a scoop a day - about half a teaspoon. I dont know if this comes in other strengths, I just scaled down according to the dosage on the packet.

I dont know if you are just enjoying the banter or if you really want an answer, but I'll take the bait (yeah, I'm a sucker..... ;) ) 20 kilos of dog food will only fit in a 20 litre container if it is liquid or heavy tiny granules. The air between the little (or large ) heart shapes you have take space. If I tried to buy 20 kg of the Hills cd my girl is on I'd have to get another job - they charged $130 for 9 kg.... I need to look up Bonnie.....

I dont have any expeience personally, but it has made the news here in Adelaide a couple of times recently. I dont know how long it takes, but yes, they can recover fully.

Hope your girl is doing better. I had a staffy a few years ago that had this happen - we lived in the NT so the european wasp was not the cause, Max had been bitten by what they thought was a spider (possibly a redback). First noticed the eyes puff up and close, then his whole skin seemed swollen (made his hair stand up) and he was hypersensitive when touched. He was given large doses of antihistamine regualrly for 2 days (sorry I dont racall the brand, it was years ago) and we were told to keep him very cool and as still as possible for that time. It did take the whole 2 days, but he recovered fully. hope this helps you feel a bit better...

My dogs have both had ear problems recently. Firstly, the 14 day ab's plus ear drops seem to not have totally cleared the problem a couple of months ago so we were back - same problem again, but a longer dose of ab's this time. One dog cleared beautifully, the other seemed to get worse and I was told that the drops and ab's had cleared the first infection letting a nastier one take hold. Different ab's and different drops and eventually it got better. A week of ab's might not have done the trick and you might also need ab drops. Assume the vet checked for grass seeds ? Does the ear smell ?(setting myself up there, I know its an ear and they hear, not smell... )

I keep being told that they are not related - yet they started at about the same time. As the seizure finished she just dropped her whole bladder load. I've never seen her go like that (and inside, which she never does) And i'm fairly certain that this started from then on - although I was so worried about the seizure that my attention was not on her bladder routine at the time. She did have an infection, and there is blood in her urine now which seems to point to there being an issue in the bladder more than the brain now. I'm not 100% convinced that there is not a connection between the two, although I dont know what to do to check it.

thats a good point. Poor Maggie had a nasty ear infection that took two different ab's before it cleared, then the bladder infection that took over 3 weeks of ab's to clear, and as soon as she came off them she had an infection on her skin fold (face) which took two more weeks of ab's. In the absence of anything else I have asked the vet what could be irritating her bladder or weakening it, because thats what its beginning to look like to me. They dont know... I have been to scared to put her on anything they have not recommended in case I make things worse. Would that be okay with the Hills cd she is on at the moment ?

Thank you - there is a spcialst herbal place here in Adelaide that do pet consults. I'll see if they have this :-) I have been waiting for Maggie to come off all other medication before I did anything herbal. I really do think she needs some natural help. Thanks again.

Apparently the infection has been gone for weeks now. The blood comes and goes, was there one day, net the next etc. I asked what could this possibly be ? the answer was that maybe a polyp that should have shown on the ultrasound or may be a small lesion in the baldder that bleeds accasionally. his thoughts were that we should not go the surgery route while she is otherwise happy. Both the specialist and the vet did a urine analysis - both a fee catch, also had one taken straight from the baldder and one was sent to a lab to grow the bacteria. This was the first time that blood was there on Tues night, none there Wed. it seems to come and go. :-( If I go to another vet I wont be getting a second opinion, i'd now have a third! any suggestions for a really god Vet in Adelaide ? We have been to the Specialist Referral Centre (David Davies) they dont do normal consult, only specialist consults and I've heard really good things about them. And we also go tothe Brighton Veterinary Hospital.

Yes, both issues are unrelated, but I'm puzzled that they happened at the same time (I need to let that go dont I ? :-) ) The specialist said that the MRI takes two hours under GA and her recovery would be risky with her breathingt he way it was that day. No point killing to look for a tumour that may not be there. It was very hot that day and she was stressed so she sounded like a chain saw. Our regular vet see's her more relaxed and in cooler temps and does not think its worth doing the op. We manage her heat issues, we have good aircon on hot days and we walk before sun up (wet if need be) etc. Last night the vet still did not think the breathing was worth doing anything about. But now we have no struvite crystals anymore, but a fair bit of blood in the urine again. She has been clear of bacteria for over 3 weeks so theres apparently no need to keep her on ab's. I asked what could be giving her the blood given what tests have ruled out so far - possibly a polyp that should have turned up on ultrasound...... The next step is the operation to gi into the bladder and have a look, but he did not recommend it yet as she is pretty happy and normal (or as normal as a pug gets according to the vet). I'm supposed to keep her on the Hills cd for a while and see what happens. Yesh - like thats going to stop me worrying and watching her pee. Do you give your pug that is on this diet bones ? I dont know how to keep her teeth clean if sh cant have anything else. Vet thought it may okay once or twice a fortnight?

ah - so you have seen all this. Maggie is a tad old for the normal onset of epilepsy, apparently its usually before the age of 4, and she turned 9 a few days after her siezure. The specialist said he would not do the MRI to see if she has a tumor until her breathing is fixed, and I guess that what your girl had done. Pugs are tough little things and its hard to tell if they are in pain, thats my big worry.

I forgot - Thanks for the resposnses Anne, This is eating me up and I dont know who to dicuss it with. I htought the seizure was a probelm, but this is overshadowing everything else.

They have been checking in the urine samples I give them and say that the baceria that was there is gone now. The specialist (David Davies in Adelaide) recommended not to go directly into the bladder if the free catch sample is clear of bacteria. If any baceria returns I'll get them to take a sample directly from the bladder and send it for another test where they grow the bacteria to see what it is. Thing is - not at any time have the frequent small urinations abated. The first one after she has not gone for an hour or more takes ages (about a minute) and she squats till she's amost touching the ground. The shorter ones she wont go down as far and I can see better what is coming out. The urine does not look couldy and I cant see any other excretions like pus. One vet thinks could be behavioural - I think that is vet speak for 'has no more ideas'. Then again..... :-( I am taking her for a check tonight and will discuss the long term antibiotics, it cant hurt and its not like anything else has helped. Poor thing she had massive ear infections before all this, and a skin fold infection since. I think her immune system is pretty well shot at the moment. we have been at the vets a LOT :-(

Yes, they did and it was clear. I also have the normal urine tests done at the vets nearly each week to check that the bacteria does not return. Last test was clear of blood (which had previously been there) but had some struvyte crystals hence the Hills cd diet she is now on. If anything, she is going even more now and I dont know if thats due to the different diet. I think they have ruled out all the easy to find nasties and would want to go to surgery for a look next, but they dont know what they are looking for. At one stage they thought it was bladder cancer but the ultrsaound did not back that.

I have a 9 yo pug girl (desexed) who, after an idiopathic siezure in December, started having bladder problems. Apparently not related. they did find bacteria and diagnosed a UTI which cleared - eventually - with antibiotics. But the symptoms have not changed she still urinates a lot, and only a small amount each time (although the flow is quite good sometimes and a bit dribbly at other times.) She can go all night without needeing to go outside, and has not had any accidents inside. If we walk for half an hour she will go about 6 -8 times the first taking about 1 minute. at home she may go out two or three times in an hour (and then not at all for an hour or two) We have been to the vet and to the specialist. She has had stones ruled out by x-ray and ultrasound. We went to the specialist about the siezure but he also did the ultrasound to check her bladder. at that time (a month ago) the advice was keep going with the treatment and if its not cleared then we should have a look (lapriscopy SP?) Well the infection is now gone - but the small frequent urinations have not She's also been on the Hills cd food for a few weeks - thats not made a difference. I'm reluctant to keep stressing her taking her to vet if she is otherwise happy has no infection, and passes urine - to possibly still have no answers, as we have been so much already. Can anybody think of anything that would not have shown on the xray, ultrasound, blood or urine tests that could make her think she needs to empty her bladder so often or make her bladder unconfortable ? I'm going mad following her about to see how often and how much she urinates. Appreciate any suggestions, no matter how 'out there'...you just never know. Thanks