leopuppy04

Hi Guys - I really appreciate all of the tips! I am still a little out in the open about the hand signals. My judge at Knox actually said to me "you have trained a dog to UD before haven't you".... and I said - no Leo is my first ..... he thought my hand signals were perfect for UD, yet not for Leo, so I took a step back . I don't think he is reliant on hand signals as I can call out drop in heel and he will drop instantly, so I don't think he relies on me dropping my hips or anything. Either way - i'll give it a try on the smaller signal! Thanks

Thanks guys - keep the tips coming! Ok - will work on varying time and recording some call outs!!! Have already started working on the positions on the move and he does them really well. Did he jump up??? Me confused?? LOL - yes my hair usually is out of my face Dogdude- Do ya know at my last trial I was told off for the complete opposite!!!! The judge told me that my signals were too fancy for a CCD/ Novice dog and I should bend down lower to give my drop signal as my dog was occasionally not to sure about the signal I gave! My instructor says the same ;).... What do you recommend I should do??

it was one I made up..... on the DVD i'm sending you you'll see both

haha Jesomil - I had to watch it again . Yes I think he is borderline anticipation ;) - He can do that occasionally and take off a fraction before I actually command 'heel' so i'm wondering if I am giving a very subtle signal just prior. Will keep that in mind to work on though Thanks Burlof - Hopefully i'll see you tomorrow! Did you want me to bring a spare crate for you? If not I can always share mine ;) You'll love Ruffey Lake

- somehow I don't think so Ness! I've seen your vid of Ness' heeling and i'm jealous of you!!!! LOL! Wait till you see his agility - you'll be ROTFYAO! C'mon - I need tips

Ok guys - thanks to Jesomil remembering and Shoey for taping - I got some footage of Leo heeling. I didn't realise my camera only allows for 1 min allotments, which is why it cuts off 1/2 way through. It isn't his best heeling as we noticed (it is quite obvious!) that Leo was lame.... it really showed up in this sequence but it wasn't really showing up before. What a good little boy - still keen as mustard despite his sore leg . I'd love to have some pointers etc/ let me know what you think - we are novice level Be nit picky, but be kind too Cheers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfmHaP4uIII

it was a great day guys. Shoey, Roxy's mum and Jesomil turned up! I will put up vids of Leo later in a new thread. You guys did great and I hope I helped a little . I'm sure you'll all be out there competing and beating the pants off me soon

ummm - wouldn't that be where the shows may be? All the times I've been to a show at KCC it's been out the back

yep - still room - do you want me to PM you or email you?

WMR - what is your email addy - i've just emailed everyone - otherwise i'll PM you

I would take him back to 3 poles until you are getting the drive/motivation/distance/accuracy/independence you want you want & then move to 5. I did most of my initial weave training on 3, then moved to 5 when I was happy & then straight to 12. Every now & then if I am finetuning something now I will slightly offset just to help out. There are lots of different methods that people swear by...I guess it is about picking one & doing the hard yards (not really...2-3 times a day for a week should make a dramatic improvement) to follow it through. BTW. :p I think you are really mean to throw us out of the other thread I think I was finally getting Ness to stop making excuses & just do it. Now I'll have to start all over again ;) thanks Vickie - I am all excited to try the 2x2 and start from scratch again - lets just say the weaving needs practice!! Oh and yes - i'm a class A B*%&h!!!!

at club - to teach channel weavers - they would put barriers through the weavers and I can't be stuffed organising all of that AND Leo tends to jump over the barrier . If I don't have the barriers he won't do the weaves. He seems to get the 2x2 method though bad luck on sunday - I only ended up with the 1 pass Didnt you get a few passes on Sat?

I don't mind channel weaves but I can't set it up at home - and no matter what I try he won't do it at home.... also he always jumps over the barrier - to many things to get him to do first before actually weaving...... I find the other way (push and pull) was a lot faster but I can't get distance or the drive ahead of me..... I dunno.... Were u entered on Sunday Superminty??? How did you go??

cool - that was my plan.... well that and to get you out of my thread

There was one in the Agility book that I got recently - one of the 'LAD'/ Kay Laurence ones. I think it is the same method - you start with 2 poles about 3ft distance and another 2 poles. you get the dog to weave, pull them back through the gap and ask for 'weave' again..... gradually you fade out the 2nd weave and then you bring the poles together and the dog should automatically do all 4.... then you add 2 more.... etc,etc.... does that sound the same? I started with this and like it, but curious about other methods. How about getting the dog to enter from various angles/ other obstacles - that is our next hurdle.... Laffi - I just use a hammer to get them in the ground.... rather than measure the distance eact time I got some string - tied it to the first and last pole (taught) then I got some coloured duck tape and stuck 'flags' on the string where every pole was. that way, when I set up I put the 1st and last pole in and then all the others go where the flags are

Elaborate on the 2x2 method please! Yes he can weave, but since he is not super dooper fast, we waste a LOT of time there ... and he is inconsistent.... weave Leo.... no not today I got mine from bunnings. They are plastic garden stakes with a metal reinforcement in them - normal height of weavers..... cost is around $5 for a bundle of 6

Just kidding! I just think the posts are relevant to anyone wanting to teach weaving. Plus I am having weaving trouble at the moment. What is the best way to teach an independent weave aside from Channel weaves. I want Leo to be able to surge ahead with weaving, but don't know how to teach this. He is also very inconsistent. So I am armed with new weaving poles and ready for some ideas

I agree! LL - more suggestions! Kaos is eager and boy is that out of synch !!!! After LL comments I cant' think of any more to add - stroking is really good and using a word such as 'get it' for example would help too

Ness - who invited you into this thread - stalking me again!!! I notice the same thin g- If Leo is flat and I run Kinta first (in training) he is all systems go when I bring him out - even if I just bring Kinta and not work her - he knows the competition is there

Ahh now I see what you mean Vickie! It happened to me in training this week - we went over a jump at a weird angle - I told Leo to turn - turn he did but I forgot to call him off the next jump and I was pointing all systems go to that exact jump!!! You couldn't really get mad at him for that! Yes, that is interesting and I have thought about it before - I don't know what I do - is it confusing to sometimes reward and other times not? If we ignore it are we missing a perfect opportunity to reward.... ahh - whoever said training wasn't complicated Cosmolo: I do the same - have a no-reward marker if the dog did something wrong - If he does it wrong again, then clearly there is something wrong with what i'm asking him to do - has he done it before, what am I telling him to do etc,etc. Yes I agree with what you are saying - I certianly don't reward for every sit etc..... but I think that a dog needs to be paid one way or another (of course depending on the exercise), particularly in a complex task or something like a trial - Some just walk out of the ring and fail to reward their dog.... then they wonder about why the dog flattens off. I think that with complex tasks particularly, the motivation should always be there - same with the basic stuff - we may reward 1 out of 50, but I still think we need to reward them!

sort of - about 30- 40 mins away - are you coming to our training day at KCC on Sat - it is after the show if you are going to be there - spaces are still available!

Teach the stand out of heel position first to avoid confusion. to get her to stand from a sit - get a pice of food and lure her forward - hand going slowly and straight out from the nose. click or 'yes' the minute she stands (hopefully without moving front feet).. If she moves the front feet, you have moved the food too far. To stand from a drop - lure forward and at a 45 deg angle to raise her from the drop - get the stand from sit really solid first, so she has some understanding of what the word means. then progress to heel. When she is sitting at heel step forward with your left foot and ask for 'stand' - give a hand signal of straight up in front of her nose - flat palm facing her. When she stands give treat (which should be in your hand!) along with 'yes' or click. Once she has that rock solid from a sit and drop in heel - then add movement - take a couple of steps, say stand offer hand signal and if she goes to sit - gently raise her back up from the chest. no reward if she does this... if she does it more than twice.... go back a step . For the stand for exam - practice stand stays with you walking all around and standing infront. Hold onto her collar and pull forward - the moment she resists and doesn't move any feet - reward (build up intensity of this). start with someone simply walking past and click/ 'yes' if she doesn't move (and even better if she maintains eye contact with you). Gradually that person will reduce distance between the dog and themselved and then add the examination. does that help?

Yes I see that all the time in training too and I try my best not to do it.... Vickie, what do you do when the dog makes a mistake - do you tend to just say "oh no" and go back to the start nice and peppy or what?? You raise an interesting point about 'motivation'..... which gives me another question to ask.... SHOULD we be reducing the level or rewards???? I don't think we should - we should reduce predictability and we should ask for more to get that one reward, but IMO the dog should ALWAYS be paid for good work and ALWAYS have something to work for - I hate seeing trainers who never reward their dog aside from a simple "good dog" because the dog knows it and therefore doesn't need the full-on rewards anymore. Do you see a lot of this also? I mean, the dog has to be 'paid' after all - sure vary what they are being paid with, but not take out the rewards.... it amazes me how many people make this mistake. I was actually told when I started training Leo that since he knows it, he shouldn't be rewarded anymore...... hmmm..... Interested to hear thoughts on that :rolleyes: LOL - Cosmo - know you weren't saying that Leo would be uncertian about the bag but I was rather affirming that the 'uncertianty' can work to your benefit. I'm unsure about it going the other way though as the dog IMO, even a nervy dog is 'certian' it would be getting some form of a *good* reward.

Yes it *is* an interesting concept and not one I had really thought about before. I also thought of the playing with the toy beforehand - is it bribery - this is what I have to offer you, so are you going to work for me.... but I've never seen a negative to this as it tends to get Leo all pumped and ready to work... :rolleyes:. Definately wouldn't say uncertianty as when I release Leo to go and get his 'biccies' he charges over and either sticks his head in the bag and pulls out what *he* wants or he stands there wiggling like a maniac until I get there :rolleyes: ;) As for the unconfident dog - perhaps they would be better with a more regimented system?? Dunno! Good point Jeff - but I don't see myself as reliant on toys nor reliant on varying them. Leo works just as well for the 'kong on rope' that he gets every day in the park as he does for some of his toys - but he definately has more 'drive' to work with the toys in the bag (and yep, even if it is the Kong in there *g*!). He also doesn't know what i'm going to pull out of the bag be it toys or food (obviously I can't pull myself out of there ).... so I don't see myself as reliant on multiple toys, but I feel that if I stuck to one toy, it would eventually decrease the value of that one toy YES! Definately, and on each individual too! For example - Kinta is a mad tugger so that is usually her reward. She doesn't retrieve half as much as Leo, but when pulled out of the magic bag, she retrieves like an OCD ball freak . Leo will rarely tug, but loves retrieving. The downside of this is that it is REALLY hard to keep his motivation up at one particular agility club coz it is inside, enclosed space and not much room to throw the reward :D. I get a much better response out of him at our other club. Also - Aussies tend to love jumping - so that is part of their reward for both of my dogs... I think it *definately* depends on the breed & individual! I love hearing other peoples thoughts - what else can someone throw at me

I agree and disagree at the same time . I do vary what is in the treat bag - but this changes all the time so I don't think that he can 'expect' what is in there. Mind you - he does have favourites. I will always produce something that he 'likes' such as a squeaky or ball.... rarely a tug as he is not a tuggy dog. He knows what he is working for as we usually will have a razz up session before a trial with the said toy - that has never once made him 'not work' becuase he didn't like what was in there, as there is always the prospect of food also ;). I think if I had the same toy in there ALL the time, he would get bored and the motivation to work for that one toy would decrease - much the same as rotating toys in the yard. So, one day he may be a little 'dissapointed' with what is in there, but the next training day brought something super good.....therefore I think you are working on 'intermittent' rewards - sometimes, just maybe the toy may be my ab fab fave . Having said that - all of the toys in the bag are 'my' toys ie: he never has a chance to play with them without me, and he must work for these toys.... so I think taht in itself increases the reward. He seems to love them all and the only time i've seen him flatten off is when I produce a tug, as we just DONT tug..... ETA - I think it is the 'suspense' as well of when he is going to be sent to the bag and 'what' is in the bag that keeps the motivation up..... so I probably don't really agree that you should only use one toy