leopuppy04

I do exactly the same as what I do in training..... or at least try to. Most of the time the errors are my body language (or in a trial situation, Nerves) that causes them to make a mistake. For example - I had a really bad run with Leo in agility on Wed night (after a really good night on Tue!).... the course was set up in such a way that a jump was next to a U shaped tunnel, which was next to another jump and another tunnel to that jump.... if that makes sense . Leo is a 'tunnel suck' and would continue to go to the tunnel and not the jump..... but in all honesty - my body language in part, was telling him to do the tunnel as that is the direction my body is facing! If he makes a mistake in the course, I will take him back to do it again.... rarely he will make the mistake a 2nd time - if he does - I either finish the run, or continue, only to figure out how/ why he made the mistake...... usually when we go in a second time, once he gets it right he won't make the error again.... but I don't think that is in effect of taking him out of the run... just my thoughts

haha - nope - knowing my luck you'll be watching saying.... HOW did they ever get a pass !!!! He always finds something new to do wrong! Lets just hope he doesn't break the stays FOUR TIMES like he did the first time we were going for our CCD title !!!

not telling - otherwise I might have spectators

Yeah - i've entered the working dog trial on the 2nd June...... knowing me my nerves will be so high; we WONT pass.... but we get 2 goes . Other than that..... the State trial in August will be our next one ..... Open??? whats that?!?!

to add a tangent to this thread - just curious..... who here enjoys heeling? Who here has a dog that enjoys heeling??? if yes to both - how did you train it?

One more to go TO!!!!!!! Don't know whether that is exciting or not.... it makes me feel sick!!! ! Thanks Lablover :D

haha - I don't! You should see me before an obedience trial - i'm almost in tears from the nerves :D But I can't help entering as I always feel soo elated after entering the ring!!! Only experience makes it easier . The first time I went for my CCD title - I was shaking like a leaf - a friend videoed it for me and you can actually see my legs shake whenever I stop walking! The best thing for me is to keep telling myself that i'm doing this for fun - no-one is challenging me to get my title in x trials, so who cares - go out, have fun and enjoy it for what it is .... that has helped. I also try and put all my energies into staying 'positive' and 'happy' for the dog which helps immensely. Now I find i'm actually quite calm! For agility - nowhere near as stressful - I think it is because we are actually 'on the move' with the dogs. Not to mention you can talk to them! I find it a lot easier and less nerve racking in that sense.... having said that - I am always going to forget at least 1 obstacle what it is called!!!! ! You'll be fine.... concentrate on the dog and just think of how much fun you will have :p ETA: I now always go into a trial NOT expecting a pass but just to 'have a go' (but in the sense that I know my dog is ready).... this takes a lot of stress off! I go in and decide that whatever mistake my dog makes i'm going to laugh about it and not cry over it :p

Same here Ness. I *can* ask Leo to heel outside of the ring, but I rather not - it isn't a testament that he can't do it, but rather, I have high expectations of what a "heel" is and it would be tiring for him to do it in a busy street etc (not to mention with all the traffic)! We have 3 types of walking: "Lets Go" - go where you like, to the extent of the lead - it can be taut but don't pull me over.... and don't cross behind me! They can sniff and basically be a dog. "With me" - I think this is Erny's type of heeling, perhaps a little more lax though..... You are to walk beside me, in a very small 'sweet spot' area. You do not need to watch me but you may not sniff or say hello to other dogs. "heel" - I require 100% attention - you are to look up at me ALL times and trust me completely. I *want* them glued to my leg - but whether or not I achieve that is another story. You are to maintain that position until released no matter what I ask you to do . Heel is complicated - it takes a looong time to build up to it. But the rewards I reap - I would do it for that alone. For me - heelwork is about trust. The dog must trust that by watching you - we won't lead them astray. We must also trust our dogs that they will maintain position etc. Heelwork for me is 'teamwork'..... both my dogs ADORE heeling .

I wasn't with Leo to start off with, but after some helpful training from a good friend she helped me 'correct' my mistakes. With my new girl - I don't think we have done more than 4 steps - any more precise and i'd be stepping on her feet ! I like to aim for the best heeling both my dog and I can do - not that we get it all the time, but we try! No point aiming for heeling that will pass novice, but give you difficulties in open/UD. JMHO :D

Thanks so much everyone for the congrats! I am soo proud of my little man! I was hoping Coop was going to be there Sam! Leo had a lovely play with Tank

a picture tells 1000 words. I like this type of heeling:

LOL weisnjac! I wish you did introduce yourself! Did your mum have the L/H Weis? With the little baby puppy!?!?! Yes, Leo did me proud - thanks for the compliments Arya - when do you want me to ship him over to you??? We got 2 qualies - scores on 189 and 179 - 1st and 2nd respectively! In the AM he worked really well and only made a few minor errors. But I am pleased to say he scored 38/40 in heeling After waaay too much socialising during the looong lunch, he seemed pretty pooped for the PM. It showed in his work, but hey - we still passed!!! Margaret Deakes (PM Judge) was lovely and said he was a great dog, but probably a little tired . He scored 27/40 in heeling after missing a sit, lagging in fig8 and for me not going 'slow' enough in 'slow' pace .... oops I had a few 'heart in mouth' moments - in the AM trial Leo thought a scratch with 5secs to go in the down stay was a good idea but luckily stayed in possie . Unfortunately Arya's Tess didn't think so when she repeated what Leo did! In the PM trial Leo also contemplated a 'bow' for the distance signal, but luckily thought the better of it and 'dropped'.... I was trying my hardest not to laugh too It was a good day out but Leo and I were just pooped..... Poor Kinta couldn't understand why no-one wanted to play with her when we got home.... she was raring to go ;) ETA: TO - same thing happened to me last year - I think Berwick is *really* strict about entry dates! Annoying thing was I sent my entries off 3wks prior to the closing date but wrote the wrong post code!!!

It is true Arya - I think I was speaking to you about it yesterday! LOL. My last girl - a 'ball obsessed' Kelpie had her canines worn down to 'nothingness'.... it got a little sore for her in the later years and she couldn't have bones etc coz her gums would bleed..... knowing what I do now - I wish I got her teeth checked out as it was likely the only sign to 'heart problems' etc, that may have contributed to her death Anyways - not really related to tennis balls! I *do* think they wear the teeth down, but I only let Leo play with his tennis balls either in the park with me or at training - that way he can't rip the fur off or chew it ALL day like she used to! It is only when they have T. balls all day every day that it becomes a prob IMO

ah huh! well..... all's fun in a good all-round discussion I feel guilty too leaving one at home and taking the other..... but I am told that they both handle really well. At the end of the day - I doubt any of us are mistreating our dogs

LOL - what do you mean by being fluffy? I've never heard that before! Well - in my mind I do believe I am doing it for the dogs benefit, so that the are able to cope away from each other. I don't think that simply by separating the dog you will end up with a better competition dog - there are so many other factors. Likewise - if I turned around and my dogs were together 24/7 from now on in and still continued my training, it may have a small effect, but if that is what I believed in, I wouldn't change it. I don't think that it is purely the separation that makes or breaks a top competition dog . I also do it to prevent baby puppies being hurt by big goofs. Do you feel guilty if you have to leave one of your dogs at home - ie: taking Brock out for training? How does your other dog cope? Yes, they still are 'animals' but wild no - I don't see humans as wild animals either, but leave us in the 'wild' long enough and we will also soon revert to other ways of getting our meals etc. It is all 'survival of the fittest'. as for pups born feral - whole different kettle of fish - it is about the 'social' that they lack, hence why they are hard to tame. Agreed 100% that no pack / herd animal likes to be alone full stop!

LOL - ask I did . hmm.... yes - I agree they are pack animals. I know you have already stated that you would never have one dog alone..... so what of those that only do have one dog? Are they not doing the right thing by the dog in your mind? Hmm... the behavioural problems caused by dogs being left alone are only by those that don't know how to manage dogs properly. Leo was alone for 2yrs, my previous dog before that for 13 years. I never had a *separation* related behavioural issue with them. My old girl - yes, we had issues - she was a shelter dog and ended up in her 'twilight years' being a little aggressive..... Also IMO - relations that we like to draw to wolves cannot always be true. Separation related issues have not crept up to my knowledge until the past 20 years. Dogs are now a huge part of our lifestyle.... sometimes a baby replacement - it is not 'pack related' such as the size of the pack but rather how we treat them in their environment. In the lifestyle we lead today a dog needs to know how to live on it's own - whether in a pack or not. If they are 'only dogs' they must survive while the owner is at work, if in a dog-pack - need to survive when the other dog is not there - whether it be ill, in season, at the vet, dead or whatever. For thousands of years dogs have been domesticated, so in my mind, they need to be able to deal with being separated from pack...... remember - if we were talking wolves, dingos or other species of wild canids - my approach would be different. As to everything else..... I agree with K9

Do you mind if I ask why? Is it your own personal feelings on the matter or is there a specific reason as to why you wouldn't do it??? Just curious.

But IMO - training also helps the dog 'deal' with being separated from the other as you will take Brock out to training and not your other (sorry I don't know her name!). Likewise, when you do training at home they realise that there will be times when neither their mate or you will give them attention . Just like having one inside and the other out for a 1/2 hour - it all adds up and helps them in the end ......

But do you not agree that in the general 'domesticated' lifestyle that we live in, a dog should be able to cope with being separated from the pack? Human or otherwise? I'm not talking about being excluded obviously, but able to survive periods away from the pack? To me - it is an important part of 'modern lifestyle'..... I mean 'single dogs' have to deal with it on a day to day basis when their owners are at work.....

Does anyone here who trains their dog think it cruel to keep your dogs separated (even if you don't do it yourself)???? Seems that the general dog community seems to think so, and I'm stumped as to why???? Wouldn't you think it more cruel to keep the dogs together all the time and have them fret if emergency calls them to be separated? Well..... back to being the 'cruel' dog owner that I am

LOL Great! I'm a mind reader I am

TB - It really depends on what you mean as a drop on the move. For a pause table in agility - I get my dog to stand on it.... I find it easier (although a couple of times he has skidded straight off the table!). Perhaps in terms of the table - start with your dog being sent to a mat and waiting there for 5 seconds. Initially - just accept a stand - then lure them into a drop once they are reliably going to the mat. When they have been 'shown' how to drop on a mat immediately after arriving there - try and fade that cue out - wait a bit and see if they will 'anticipate' - if she does - reward heavily. This worked great with my girl and she now charges over to the mat and seems to arrive and drop at the same time .... everything with her is at top speed . Gradually increase your distance *away* from the mat and use a command such as 'mat' or something to get her there. In terms of a drop on recall - what WMR said - pretend you are throwing a toy and ask her to drop first. Make it easy as she may be a little confused. If she doesn't comply - come in a little closer, show her the hand signal, help her until she gets it and then gently praise (but don't throw the toy).... I do this to reassure that yes, this is what I want. Next go - try it a little closer. Vary where you ask her to drop also - try and get some distance between you and the dog. Try not to worry (at the moment) if they creep, but ALWAYS throw the reward *behind* them (ie, throw the toy/food) - so the reward doesn't come directly from you. I find this solves the creeping on its own, but I try not to correct it immediately as both times when I did that, both dogs got confused as they weren't sure whether or not I wanted the drop. So wait until they are 100% confident about 'dropping' before you attack creeping . I will ask them to drop at any stage during a walk and that also helps. Even if they are bringing a toy back they may have to drop etc,etc. In terms of drop in heel position slow down your steps and take smaller steps *before* showing her to drop. This will help her there ;) Pull your shoulders back if she is coming out of position Sorry -wasn't sure what drop you meant!

well.... that - or if someone is fireing at me I seem to remember to drop pretty quick

Or for the older dog to learn off the puppy I think Kinta taught Leo (or re-taught) things that he 'thought' were naughty (and were!).... talk about 2nd puppyhood

I must say it is fascinating K9 - did you 'think'/ devise it yourself, or had you heard or it elsewhere? Hope you don't mind me asking!