leopuppy04

Hiya Squeak. Sorry it took so long - here are the vids of Kinta doing the Quoits - sessions 2&3. As you can see she gets a little bit TOO eager at times and needs to learn to put the quoits ON the pole - not pull them off. This was the bit that Leo got a little confused with also.... Funny how you can't remember how you rectified it. LOL.... I do remember putting my finger ontop of the pole so the dog can't pull the quoit off and trying to click the drop.... but i'll get back to you on that for the next session.... but feel free to have a watch and ask away

I don't know about Western Australia, but I have certainly been told here in the Eastern States that I should not obedience train my dog under any circumstances because that means it will sit in the ring. Note I said "some show people" - there are other show people here who win Dunbar medals and who are fine with people doing obedience and show at the same time. (I actually think show training is a form of obedience training anyway!!) Yep - I get that too - along with you can't do agility and obedience together

BC - you can easily do both! I am yet to have a 'regular' problem with Kinta mucking up her showing by 'sitting' or 'heeling' or by loosing focus in obedience. In the initial phases - yes, she may have been a little confused, so I just broke it down into separate training sessions for each exercise and also use different commands. I think she has 'once' begun to sit in the show ring and she did go through a prancing phase in the show ring but that was my fault for not teaching her to 'show' Think of is this way - our body language is completely different when showing to when we are doing obedience - as is their position relative to you. I guess the biggest problem for me was 'focus'.... as Kinta would 'watch' my every move - so I solved that by putting her reward away from me and she has since focussed forward when showing. I use the same stand signal and position, but as someone pointed out to me a 'show training' (she also does both), the motions are the same - but if you want the free stack maybe use an additional command such as 'feet' etc. For heeling, I use 'heel' - that is the position they are required to maintain - and I teach that 'position' pretty early on. But when you go on your walk - a dog doesn't heel the whole time?? Coz we haven't given that command etc . Same for showing - I use the word 'gait' and the dogs 'know' that word - as soon as I say 'gait' even when walking - they will switch 'pace' to 'gait'.... They will also look forward Next is the different training leads etc. I was always doubtful as to whether this was true or not.... but the funny thing is - I put the show lead on and pull it up behind their ears and wha-la - the dog rarely sits and *shows* herself off!! I put the obedience collar/ lead on and I have constant focus and offered heeling.... weird huh?! Just my 2c PS - any news yet???

Usually I will only take my dogs for an injury related issue - but that is because it seems to fall withing the 'regular' checkup time. If my dogs haven't shown any signs of lameness within 6mths I will take them for a preventative checkup. I am like PF that see it as a preventative rather than curative. Also - on the times that I have taken Kinta - she has not been lame at all, but merely seeing the chiro as 'she was there'. EVERY time he has found her to be out - only mildly so.... it just goes to show that dogs ARE quite stoic and will not show signs of pain. The times when I have taken Leo for injury - the chiro is always amazed he isn't showing it more! On top of that - the first time I went to the chiro was to fix up an 'old injury'.... it took about 6 re-visits to get it right.... since then, he has NEVER (touching wood) had an issue with it.... but - in the long run, preventative is better as he wasn't performing his best for about 6mths when you include all the re-visits, which panned over months.....

I've often wondered about this. As Laffi said - how advanced is it??? Can you pick things up from it as a reasonably 'experienced' trainer??? Flickinig through it and i've always thought it looks good :D

haven't you watched the wizard of oz..... you might melt you know

haha - you know what is amusing about this thread - you are all saying how your dogs don't mind it.... mine don't either - they even go swimming in the rain! But as for me - nuh-uh no WAY! I am NOT going out in the rain The dogs will get trained inside ...... Your nuts - all of you..... nuts!

Aside from what KitKat and Bub have advised - can you send him to bed when you start eating? Do you have a crate or something similar in which, to make it easier for yourself, you can 'send' the dog away and confine it, while not using this in a negative connotation? All of our dogs, when we eat know to pretty much go to their beds as soon as food comes outside. Like you, we are a little lax now, but they don't beg, they usually just sleep at our feet. I guess the main reason for teaching this is that whenever visitors used to come over with our old dog, they would always feed her, despite us saying no! It was one of our pet hates. Basically - use a command such as 'mat', 'bed', 'box' etc etc etc. As soon as the food is set up and ready - tell your dog to get on their 'mat' (you may want to practice this a little first, so that the dog knows WHAT the mat means).... initially - go with them to their mat - tell them they are 'good dogs' for staying there..... then go and eat dinner. If the dog gets up, just say again 'mat' and place them back. The dog will learn (if you are 100% consistent) that if it gets off the mat, all that happens is it gets put back on!!! Whenever the dog is on the mat, tell them how good they are. Then, once you have finished dinner (with the dog still on the mat) clear out the table and when you release him, give him a few titbits (either your dinner or dog treats) to reinforce that staying on the mat brings good things. Obviously, due to your dogs past experience, you may be unable to start off with this as I do with pups/ new dogs.... so perhaps teach it as a separate exercise initially and confine the dog for the time being when you are eating. As for leaving the food alone - as Kit kat said - introduce a 'leave' command and REALLY test it with you going out of your dogs sight (but somewhere that you can still see him out of the corner of your eye).... if they move toward the food to take it.... shock horror, this HUGE bellowing noise comes out and scares the begezers out of them - trust me - you only need to do it once, and the dog learns that touching food on tables when no humans are around is SCARY stuff!!! Hope this helps ETA - in regards to the mat thing.... it really doesn't take long to teach as the dogs quickly learn they are getting nowhere by jumping off. An example is our dogs are not allowed inside except on their mats. We started this with Leo as a pup and it took about 30mins of putting him back on the mat for him to understand. Kinta we got at 5mths and it took her around 1-2hrs to understand. Every time they got off, I just picked them up and put them back on saying mat. When they stayed there I would pat/ feed (don't feed your dog though!). So all good things came when they were on the mat. both dogs were allowed free reign around the breeders house

Just thought this might be a good reference topic. What is you favourite training book - ie: where you get a lot of your ideas/ training tips from????? Basic outline of what the book covers?? I think it will be a great way of picking up 'good books' for training Mine? Kay Laurence: Clicker world obedience Clicker agility (not written by Kay, but falls under that blanket).... Morgan Spector: Clicker training for obedience.... both are excellent for trialling

ok - I just tried a new 'game' this weekend with d/b retrieves and am really pleased with the results. Leo is fine at the 'mechanics' of the retrieve, but I do need to build up his enthusiasm a little.... All I did was 'throw' the d/b one way and once he retrieves it, I will mark and reward by throwing the food in the opposite direction (was this what you were describing with the toy Arya?)..... He absolutely LOVED it. Once in a while (we only did about 3 retrieves) I would pivot turn to face the dog and get him to present.... I loved it, my dog loved it, my knees didn't Gradually i'll build up to him 'fetching' a dead dumbell but at the moment, I just want him to understand that boy - these d/b are FUN

*makes note that once home will check out Morgan spector for footwork*.... LOL - I can just imagine your little one getting lost 1/2 way through the continental.... I think Leo does like the flips - but then he loves the continental too.... anything that means he can wrap himself around my leg This dog is MAD for obedience - loves it more than agility - but then I think that is coz his stoopid handler gets soo confused in agility

Fantastic BC - Congratulations!!!!!!! And if you friend is who I think it is..... all I can say is AUSSIES RULE !!! congrats again - what a little trooper

A light shower - perhaps, yes Heavy rain - NO way! I never want to work in the rain so I don't expect my dog to.... if my heart isn't in it, then why do I expect them to give me 110% . As for would I then trial in the rain - light showers yes, heavy rain - nup, i'll scratch but I WILL walk my dogs in the rain

Jules - you weren't meant to know it is Kinta - you were meant to 'assume' it was a random dog in the background The disadvantage of having a backyard not suited to obedience training, having not trained properly for a few months etc - his turns have gone wide again .... I have duly noted this as homework for us :D. As for his left turns - Leo is difficult in the sense that his 'back end' is pretty much non-existent.... we have been putting work into this (walking back, swinging on a brick etc) so you should be able to see an improvement - if you scroll further down the vids - you will see a "Leo left turns" video which shows what we have been practicing ;) duly noted ;) LOL - and like I said to PP - I do prefer the LAT where the dog goes around.... I guess it is a case of 'what's taught first' and since this is the 'first' way that has been taught to me I'm in preference of it (I will have a giggle though if in 10 yrs you see me about doing the U turns ) Thanks for the comments

Thanks PP - i'm still very much a novice, so appreciate the compliment As always - yes, footwork generally is my issue . I did notice that some of my turns weren't 'crisp' enough and a bit 'over-compensated'..... we are working on that one :D what do you mean about the short/ slow paces? No fair :D..... point taken - will work on that one..... Yes - I also practice all sorts of lengths - usually the further you go out, the better and faster so I practice lots of little, short ones too. As for the continental finishes - it is a 'work-in-progress'... we are getting better, but at the moment, the judge would have to be blind not to see the crooked finish ..... I don't hate the U turns (I assume you are talking about the left about turns), although I think unless you can execute it perfectly, it shouldn't be done..... unfortunately - I fall into the 'can't execute well' pile Not at all - I appreciate all kinds of advice and I know that it is much easier to observe and see the errors than correct the errors in your own handling! It doesn't bother me at all - but sometimes I do choose not to go ahead with the advice offered, because I *do* prefer the current way I do things .... either way... Thanks for the feedback, even with the rather seedy quality! Anyone else? There have been a few views..... don't be shy

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user...puppy04&p=r Link to my Youtube profile.... there are a whole bunch of vids taken today. Unfortunately my camera doesn't zoom when taking vids and dad was a novice 'video cameraman' so I didn't want to make it too complicated for him! Sorry about the quality. Some are better than others - have a look and i'd love to hear what you think (if you can see it properly!)..... I've already picked up that Kinta surges at times and goes a bit wide on turns (as suspected)..... *She lost attention when I took off 'heeling' in the positions video as I didn't let her finish eating first *Kinta did sit a little to the RHS of me for the recall - I wasn't overly worried and still rewarded as she came in nice and quick and did a good sit . I am working on the position of her fronts as a separate exercise. *Kinta's confusion on the LAT was my fault as I wasn't keeping it fluid - I was stopping my own footwork *Leo's turns at times were a little wide, but I was happy with his heeling Thats about all I could pick out from the rather blurry vids!

Yep - i'm going DD - great chance to practice some OPEN with Leo and some NOVICE with Kinta (or at least get laughed at!).... I can't wait! AS for the DB - Arya thanks for the further tips - i'll let you know how it goes, Leo's prob is that the d/b is just not that exciting and I have to make it more exciting that the squeaky tennis ball *evil grin* - yes it's still alive :( Poodlesplus - I think I know you from the Oz obedience list - welcome to DOL

Thanks Arya - that is an excellent suggestion and funnily enough - we are having difficulty with the 'send out'.... not sure if I can do this exactly as as soon as you throw another toy - he'll drop it! I taught it pretty much the way Jesomil did- although got stuck to move from 'placing' mouth on D/b to 'holding' - the most 'force' I used was to gently hold his mouth shut and reward heavily for it. It hasn't taken me long to get to the full retrieve, but from me being a novice trainer and missing key steps initially - we always seem to hunt up one problem or other. Plus - Leo's attitude is 'if it's dead - why chase it?!" With Kinta i'm teaching as per Jesomil again but with a few 'play retrieves' also to build up the fun and excitement of the object etc

Hiya Squeak I thought I better brush up on 'exactly' how I taught the quoits so that I could explain it better for you. I was wrong - I don't click the 'drop' of the ring till much later. Initially I start just clicking the pick up of the ring. If the dog lifts it completely off the pole and the ring 'happens' to fall on the pole, I click and jackpot. I try as hard as possible to build up an association between the ring and pole :rolleyes:...... hence why the ring starts on the pole. If the dog seems to constantly be missing getting the ring on the pole -I go back a step and reward the dog for picking up the ring earlier - again to try and build up the association. I was playing around with Kinta last night (a quoit newbie) and it went really well... she is already lifting and dropping on the pole..... Would you like me to take a video for some visual?

'nother great post by PF!!! Oooh - Leo and Kinta looove the scarey monsters game!!! Anything also that involves high pitched voices and 'sillyness' is GREAT fun :rolleyes: ;) ;)

what about for all the tea in Britain??? I hear their tea is nicer ;) ;)

So eloquently worded - and sooo true!!!! ;) They need to start addressing real issues rather than worrying about this - aren't there more welfare issues to discuss rather than if doing something that utilises your dogs intelligence and tires them out is cruel...... hang on.... i'll just ask Leo and Kinta :rolleyes: Yep - they say it's cruel - cruel for me not to give them their dinner on a gold platter and make them work for their food!!!

He sounds great Mrs D - when can you send him over :rofl:

I'm glad I started this topic now - the replies are most interesting! I think this is a huge factor when it comes to how we get along with our dogs. Personally I think that a 'neutral' tempered owner is likely to choose a 'neutral' tempered dog, given that it is not an impulse buy and they are making an educated decision, I think this would ring true. Think of the breeds that you are attracted to and see how similar their temperaments are and how that would relate to yours. If the dog is OTT and you are naturally a quiet person, I'd say that you would struggle a lot more than someone who just 'happened' to get the right pup. I think inadvertently we are drawn to those dogs that are like-tempered to us. Again - I agree with this. The word dominance and 'alpha' 'top dog' etc have become dirty words, but it has almost become paranoia in some owners, particularly new owners. They want *everything* to go right and due to things they may have heard or read, dominance is a main key. I repeat that MOST dogs are not naturally dominant. BUT almost every dog between 9-12mths will push the boundaries. I wouldn't treat these dogs the same as I would a truly dominant dog. Gentle but firm guidance for a dog going through the 'teenage' years is usually enough to get them through.... but a truly dominant dog will in some ways ALWAYS be challenging you and disregarding the 'rules' etc. Teenagers are simply 'pushing the boundaries' and seeing how much they can get away with ;)...... Now if someone can just speak to Kinta and tell her she is meant to be getting OUT OF this stage and not 'just getting warmed up', i'll be most grateful :rolleyes: Just some additional thoughts from the responses i've read.

Yeah these are my thoughts too. The main reason I ask my dog to 'sit' before a meal (they do so automatically) and not eat before told is merely manners as I don't want them to scoff their food before it even touches the ground ;). Jesomil: Wow - did you see that?! Jesomil went up in flames!!! I don't really have an opinion on Alpha rolling - hence the question