leopuppy04

I would use this to my best advantage then and get all excited with her at that point. I usually find that if you work with their drive when they are hyper (when you first come home, going for walks etc) you can 'build' the drive and slowly begin to use it when you want it etc. Does that make sense? I find this the hardest bit - because here, we have to quit when the game is just getting fun!!! It sounds easy to say 'end while the dog wants more' - but even this weekend just past, I noticed in myself that I was going past that peak of 'wanting' more. When I stopped, the dog was a little 'well that was a good game!" but not "NOOOOO don't stop, bring it back, where is that toy!!!".... This week i've really been focusing on ending the game at "Peak" which is usually the point when I would think to myself "yipee - we are getting somewhere, lets keep going!"... it's made a world of difference ending at that point. You may also find that with some toys, that peak lasts longer etc... with a tug - it's a very quick game with Leo, longer with Kinta. A ball with Leo and we NEVER get to the point where he says 'yep, enough of that'.... it's always "gimmedaball" repeated chant-like Kinta on the other hand - it depends what she is retrieving This will come as you build up her interest in the things you offer - thereby making yourself more interesting :cool: Vickie: I agree with this. I don't think I used to stifle drive, but I didn't really encourage it . Now, because I have a goal/ idea of what i'm after, I can encourage the types of drive I want - I've found that since doing this, my dogs enthusiasm/ interest in me alone has increased 10fold.

Good question TO - I think it varies for each person. For me - high drive constitutes a high drive for *something* - i've been lucky as both of my dogs go nuts for food/ toys and attention. BUT I do agree with Ptolomy that it can be switched on in most dogs. The biggest thing for me is that the dog will go to the ends of the earth for this one thing. and by that I mean they put their heart and soul into whatever they are doing, full of enthusiasm and pizazz all because of the reward at the end. This is why i'm so up in the air about Leo - the above describes him perfectly for obedience, but agility - he seems to come out 'moderate- high' perhaps because of all the super fast BC's A high drive dog will keep on going like an energizer bunny because what they are doing is so rewarding :D To build up a high drive dog and keep it there IMO is Bl**dy hard work!!

Good answer Ptolomy Yep - i'm suffering from this at the moment.... although she seems to quieten down when she is in season Usually I need to find a way of not quenching her drive (last thing I want to do) but to stop her from jumping out of her skin for ONE measely piece of dry food, pat or throw of a toy!! She's fun, but sometimes I wish she would stop for a breath!!! :D The response I get from friends? Well - YOU WANTED a high drive dog!! No Sympathy I tell you!

Ok - so she likes food? What type of food are you using? Does she like one above any others? She likes toys - What type of toys? Tug toys, plush toys, balls? etc? She likes your attention? In what way - you razzing her up, gentle pats etc? It's good that she likes these things - thats what you want. Next step, once you have worked out how she rates each of these (perhaps sit and ponder for a little while) is to bring out the 'drive' for each. That might mean - keeping a toy only for training and keep sessions short (playing with the toy) so that she always wants more of it - end just when the game is getting exciting. Pester her a little with the toy until she gets a bit annoyed and 'plays' with it Get her to work for her dinner - you do a sit, drop and stand for me and now you get your dinner? Feed her by hand a bit to get her to 'enjoy' the food Play the 2 food game where you throw food one way and once she has got that throw it the other (this can be done with toys as well).... Great that she likes the things - now we need to make them more 'exciting' for her

It depends - can you list what she DOES like - rather than wonder about what she doesn't????

LP - do what I did and get a Dally :p If Zig is anything to go by - that's taking "Testing" to a WHOLE new level!!!! :p

One of her training books? She wrote more than one?! And I didn't know

Exactly! Hardly anyone can still train like that surely! I mean - not every dog has an ulterior motive for world domination! I let my dogs win 90% of the time when we tug. why? Because they are SOFT dogs, and if I win all the time, they don't want to tug! All you need to do is make sure that your dog will relinquish the toy to you when asked....... It seriously makes me so mad sometimes

I started reading them when they first came out and wondered where this person got their credentials! Now I can't bear to look at them! I just glanced now - hmm... never play chasey, never tug and never rough house - all excellent tools for razzing up a dog/ getting your dog to enjoy training! ALL of his methods for recalls/ stays/ heeling etc are VERY OLD SCHOOL! I just hope, like you Arya that no one is reading them and treating it like bible

Nutbags, the lot of ya! ;) Moderate drive BCs for me, the high drive is just not what I want (moderate for a BC is probably higher than high in other breeds tho). I do agree with the statement that it's easier to control drive than create it so low drive is not for me either. Where is your sense of adventure!?!?! I think i'd like a high drive BC one day (or a kelpie) just to *really* test myself!!!! I must admit - moderate to high drive dogs are the best

Don't you know i'm a cue jumper Plus - who wants a stinky BC when you can have 2 gorgeous Aussies.... 2 for the price of one ya know

Ptolomy - if you see a blue merle and black tri Aussie on your door step - take good care of them, train them well, but don't look at me Congrats everyone on their recent achievements!!!

Totally agree!!! The nuttier the better. After having a moderate drive dog who still wants to work for *anything* but is nowhere near OTT, he is heaps of fun, but I love my high drive nutter for training - makes life interesting

Wow - Great to hear that soo many people loved it.... and SOO many DOLers that I didn't even know I was talking too :rolleyes: We should have a badge - i'm on DOL - are you?!?! ;) Feralpup - so YOU had Darcy!! Since Gina has stolen Leo - can I take her?!?! I thought she was simply divine!!! PLEASSSE!!!!?!?! You handled the sequence well, considering you were probably the first to be really 'critiqued' - but it really helped us 'auditors' to watch and learn how to handle it ;). Oh and I think Leo might have been one who could have slipped into the 'high drive' sessions :p I think what Dogdude meant (can't remember who asked) was that it was one-sided in the sense it was all positive? All I can say is that sometimes you will find that - if that is the way you train, it will be the way you teach.... the hurdles Gina got over with her own dogs might have been handled differently to how others may handle?! Thats why I love going to different seminars - you pick up all different kinds of ideas In terms of obedience - I absolutely love the two food game and will also find this useful for toys... infact I was playing with the dogs and this game last night and in 2 mins it had made a world of difference.... especially with getting Leo to 'connect' with the toy instantaneously (one of our issues :p ) I thought her method of teaching heeling fantastic, and though not 'new' it was great to hear that the way I was taught was as another 'guru' would execute - gives you a bit of confidence ;). Open and UD sessions were brilliant (particularly those 'miracle' dogs that were 'fixed' in 2 seconds with their d/b work ;) ;) ). UD was great for someone who hasn't taught it yet/ been through UD yet - gives you some ideas on how to teach it RIGHT before starting. Agility - low drive - I picked up some great ideas... particularly in terms of playing. Both of my dogs will play quite readily - but as was pointed out to me by an 'auditor' - I always reward infront (get the dog to tug infront of me).... a good point from her was to reward the dog at the side so I don't turn around Simply building up drive by running with the dog and getting them to chase the toy etc.... will definitely be doing more of that as well as rushing out to get a 'dead' toy, 2 food game (with toys) etc,etc. All of this IMO will help bring out more drive for MY dogs :p. Perhaps even switch Leo into 'high drive' ;) Some great pointers on things such as: *even if your dog did the wrong obstacle, it is NEVER wrong (and make sure it knows it!!) *If YOU stuff up - TAKE A LINE and finish *Be willing to trial like you train For high drive... Watching the sequencing course was great and unfortunately a little bit behind on time ... watching how Gina handles as well was really good also. Just in general some really good pointers that would also benefit Leo. On the whole it gave me a boot of confidence - thinking my dog is 'low drive'... but rather it woke me up and with a bit of work, he could be a 'high drive' agility dog - if I work on building his confidence (he can't know he is 'wrong' as it is usually me!) and getting him to 'drive' for his toys and i'm sure i'll see a huge improvement! Sorry it's so long! Thought it would be good to sum up for those that weren't there!

How did everyone find it?! I absolutely loved it! Had a great time and learnt heaps :thumbsup: Bit worried about the security of a certain blue dog who might be 1/2 way to WA by now though I don't mind, so long as he comes back fully trained

Just recently got thinking about this again. I'm talking more of drive in order to have a good, enthusiastic worker. Do you think that you could have a moderate drive dog and the owner could quench that drive? Do you think confusion, or not knowing what they are doing can quench drive? What about too much repetition? OR - if they are high drive, no matter what they do and how many times they do it they will be firing on all cylinders. Reasons for these thoughts. I wouldn't classify Leo as a 'low' drive dog. Show him a piece of dry food and he will be jumping through hoops to get it.... show him a ball and he will go to the ends of the earth for it. Show him a tug, and he will only play with that enthusiastically before entering the ring .... but at training will play with it quite a bit (before and after a run) But I often wonder, being my first dog, whether in some cases I would have been able to train him better and bring the drive out more had I known more at the time. Simple things such as ways to make training fun, not making it so regimented and classes going on F O R E V E R! The more I have broken down training, the more enthusiastic he has been. Bring him home from a training session and he is as quiet as a mouse. I see people who run agility courses over and over, yet never reward for it.... some then wonder why the dog is running so slow, and others have dogs that would run a course ALL day and never get tired of it.... It's really interesting... I find it really hard to define exactly what IS and what isn't a high drive dog?!

Hi guys, A friend of mine noticed at agility on Wed that Leo's (3yrs) bottom canines have been slightly worn.... ever so slightly that we couldn't be sure unless I looked at Kinta's teeth, then Leo's again But it got me wondering - is this a natural thing that occurs with age, that their teeth will wear down? Leo doesn't have tennis balls to play with, save in the park, and that is not a daily event. He has plenty of bones to chew, and not often marrows, just off cuts, lamb flaps and such He has plenty of Kong's and other 'teeth cleaning' toys to chew also. He doesn't chew a great deal, nor does he chew rocks, sticks or anything like that. I don't mind if his teeth wear down a bit, or if the occasional tennis ball game is causing it, but our last girl at 13yrs had NO canines left from the constant chewing/ tearing of tennis balls - i'd hate to think how much her teeth hurt her!!! So is it normal for them to wear down a little???

I don't believe a word of it. I think dogs can understand (quite well) a whole array of commands! Don't know where they pulled that from

Now THAT would have been a sight to see! Or do you mean... "you almost enjoyed it as much as Pirates of Penzance" ;) Go Brockie! I was watching you a few Sundays ago - he was picking the d/b out of your hand ok

I had to read it a few times to figure out where the food was going, but I get it now :p - i'm just a little thick! That's a really good idea. I've currently been doing the COP with a ball and throwing the ball behind, which has worked really well too ... but I like this idea also! The table/ barrier didn't work for us as as soon as it went away, even diminishing it really slowly he would go right back to creeping, hence the ball throwing. First open trial by the end of the year. Instructors are telling me to get my act together and enter, but I don't feel quite ready yet. His broad is nice, heelwork fine as is everything else, I just want him to be *completely* confident in the OOS sit-stay first.... that's our major down factor I also forgot to mention from a dog that would slowly W A L K out to get the d/b, look at it and NOT pick it up, lately he has been CHARGING out to get the d/g and trying to take it from me too.... he has been so much fun lately! Don't know where all this nutso drive has come from... but I hope it doesn't go anywhere! ETA - Ness was just showing what NOT to do ;)

ok - mindless brag from me...... again! ;) :rofl: I have FINALLY got Leo to understand how to do Change of Positions for OPEN! I'm so proud of my boy! The problem I was having was creeping. He would drop fine, but not sit - sit involved 50 steps before plonking his bum down ;) Last night, the penny dropped!!!! He will drop in foldback, sit up by pushing back up and stand all while staying on the one spot (pretty much!). :rofl: ;) He will do it with just signals, just voice or both together ;) Mr Leo also gave me some BEAUTIFUL runs at agility last night - we worked on distance which he *doesn't* do and did it without blinking an eyelid, plus we even got some layering in there :p :rofl: I'm very, very, very proud! Just don't ask how Kinta is going..... we get a little OTT about the prospect of dry food for a reward I know I said I wanted drivey, but I want drivey that has a 'pause' button ;) ;)

oooh yay! SW - you will be there!! I know you too!!!! I'll be there - with the feral blue nut! I'm soo excited !

- see Ness - all you have to do is *threaten* retirement and just look at the results you reap!!!! Like me - threatening to take Leo to the sausage factory..... although I think he clued on to that one !

Thats really sad :rolleyes:. What a great rap for DOL though. Sure - we don't all agree all the time - but IMO discussing and debating different methods of training is a great way to learn more, question why you train a certain way and also learn from others.... 'expanding' the toolbox as many say. Not to mention - you may train a particular way, but I think you are being pretty blind if you don't learn about the other methods of training also - whether you decide to use it or not. Yay DOL

well done PT. I bet you are very proud of your critters