leopuppy04

Do you have a link Cosmolo? I don't think i've seen one in action before??

My turn for a mindless brag!!!! Before going to agility training last night, I had time to sit down and watch the In focus; Need for Speed DVD. While I don't think Leo totally fits into this category, he could do with a bit of extra confidence (he LOATHES doing the wrong thing) and ultimately speed ;). He's definitely no psycho, course burning BC ;). So geared with this new information and the stuff covered at Gina's seminar recently, we toddled off to training with a new 'attitude' and focus. Basically I didn't care about what course he ran (usually I do and without intending to, my commands can come out harsh in the 'heat of the moment!') but that he was running fast and with enthusiasm ;). Got to training early and did a bit of the 2 food game as a warm up, some contacts and quick weaving. He did those great ;). Turned out no-one turned up for the later class (except me) which left me to join the earlier class and have a play around. Leo is a pretty bad distance worker and part of the course was to go around and do a pinwheel (well not quite, there was about 4 jumps ;)!) while I stay on the other side of the tunnel! Instead of deciding he 'couldn't' do it, I decided to give it a go. Initially I did a RC around the jump to keep on the correct side of the tunnel.... well - it worked and he did a brilliant run around the jumps ! So rather than finish the course, I stopped, had a party and rewarded :D (sounds simple, but amazing how much you know you *should* do but don't ;) ). I decided the RC was a bit messy as he wasn't in the 'ideal' position for that. So walked the course again to work out where the FC's should go. Problem with this is that it would have to be a 'harder' push 'out' to the outer jump to start the pinwheel. The danger with that is that I would have to cross over the path of the tunnel and then pull back to run the correct way around it (if that makes sense). Bl**dy dog has such a late commitment pt that he was actually taking off for the jump when I turned to continue the race (thinking he was committed) and he put on the brakes and did the tunnel instead ;). I was as proud of myself as I was with him as I didn't worry what jumps he was doing when he stuffed up, just told him how clever he was, made the criteria easier and tried to maintain a bit of distance! After a couple of tries I was able to get him 'out' and around from both the FC and RC positions And I finished with a happy dog who thought he had just done the best thing in the world ;)

I found the 'stand' hardest to get on voice command only - particularly if they are standing close to you and come forward to stand. I sometimes get a look of confusion "But there is no room!" If she understand drop really well - getting her to do it with voice shouldn't take too long at the 'breaks' in your house

So long as it doesn't involve sausage and sucking up to Leo to distract him from his duties :rofl: :D Hang on - all that takes is a slight glance in his direction :cool: .... hmmm

While I understand what you are saying Cosmolo - I teach that as a separate exercise. ML - stationary for me too... I only really introduce the 'drop' while heeling when they *really* understand it and will drop in a whole variety of situations Husky - how are you trying to teach her the voice? How about say 'down' and wait a second or two - if she doesn't, give her the hand signal. Give light praise. Repeat again (maybe doing a couple of voice only positions such as sit etc in between). She should 'pre-empt' that when she hears 'down' the hand signal follows and thus go down on the 'voice'. I found this always worked for me. Stay patient and don't get frustrated if the dog isn't doing it - they are just confused... if you feel you are getting frustrated, just take a break . when she does drop on voice only - have a party, go to town etc etc :laugh: Also vary where you ask for a drop. Beside you, in front, distance etc :D Hope that helps

ESTERN PORT ODC Inc Double Open Agility/Jumping Trial KCC Park, Western Port Hwy, Skye Vic Saturday 20 October 2007 Judges: AM Trial: Novice Agility/Jumping: M Tyler Open Agility/Jumping: C Shelton Excellent Agility/Jumping: P Gavin Master Agility/Jumping: I Staniforth PM Trial: Novice Jumping/Agility: J Browne Open Jumping/Agility: R Padfield Excellent Jumping/Agility: C Shelton Master Jumping/Agility: M Tyler Check In: AM Trial - 7.45am - 8.30am Start: 9.00am PM Trial: 11.00am - 12.00noon Start: 1.00pm or 90 minutes after AM Trial Catering available Sponsored by: ADVANCE Hi Jules - we'll be there - so feel free to come over and say hi... and watch us stuff up the courses :laugh:

Same here

Steve Austin is a fab trainer!!!! I'm sure what he says on the tapes are great advice

Failure - either from lacking to 'sit' (not completing the recall exercise) or because of two substantials - you said the dogs NAME to go around (substantial - if you didn't pause) AND dog stood... Possibly.....

Congrats Ness!! Hmm... I think you should have started your own thread though - those brags aren't mindless - they are super huge ! And you're only going to be happy with her for a week?!?! Methinks she's earnt at least 6mths of forgiveness Well done also Ptolomy! Bummer about the state trial - sounds like very hot weather though !

Ness - methinks she is asking for retirement ! Well done everyone!!!! GO Ness!!! Ptolomy - I agree - I think it's a great thread - talk about your dogs achievements no matter how big or small :p *yawn* I'm soooo tired! So much for weekends being a time to relax!!!! No news from me though - just a show today, with no results ;)

Editing photos to get rid of unwanted stuff (I can sort of do that already, but it doesn't always work!? I use the healing brush and clone brush ) I also want to know how to merge photos And also basic stuff with borders and such

Hi guys, Ok my PS gurus - i've just got a version of PS and know how to do general editing and such. But I want to try some fancy pantz stuff - does anyone have a good, easy to read, online tute that I could use to get my head around it all ???

Couldn't agree more - the labelling causes more of a rift than the simple 'method' itself at times IMO. Yep - exactly - the dog 'sits' and no matter how fast, how precise or anything - it gets rewarded. If it doesn't sit, it is bribed to sit THEN given the treat. Not saying a 'trainer' would train this way, but it is done, and these are the only ones that are 'purely positive'. For learning to occur, I believe there has to be relevant consequences for behaviour.

Bravo PF...wel put. I second that - very well put. How many times do we hear of ppl complaining about aversives because they saw a dog corrected into the middle of next week?? Not the norm. How many times have we heard people complain about positive training because there are no consequences?? Not the norm again. Simply because you don't "Ahh" the dog or "correct" it doesn't mean there aren't 'consequences' IMO - but there will be a minor group who DO give no consequences, but these people are not the norm. With all this constant bantering of training methods, I really feel we have a very confused public out there - some who are afraid to raise their voice to their dogs, some who are so confused they simply don't know where to tread.... which can be quite detrimental to the dog and family. JMHO

So if I have a dog that has 3 passes (not applied for title) in CD: NOVICE CLASS: For dogs, six months of age or over, and of either sex which are not eligible for the title of Companion Dog' (C.D.). So according to this I can't put him/her in CD. Then I read on: NOTES: (a) An Exhibit which has gained sufficient awards to qualify for the title of C.D., C.D.X. or U.D. shall NOT be eligible to compete in a higher class at an Obedience Trial until such time as the owner/s have lodged an application for recognition of the title with the Canine Control in the State or Territory in which the registered owner/s reside, Bummer: Can't go in Open either!! I think the reason for this is that you MUST have at least loged your title form before entering the next class - not just hold onto them so you can keep competing in the lower class. Having said that - if entries have closed for the next trial and you got your title.... say the weekend before, you are able to enter that level (which you just achieved your title for) again. But if the entries haven't closed, you can't enter the lower class. Technically you can't enter a class before you have loged for your title, but I think they are pretty lenient on this one Clear as mud?

That's so great MBP!!! Isn't it great when you put so much work into something and it finally pays off!!!! Go Peebs and Blossom!!!!

*puts hand in air* - oh me, me! I'll agree to that!!!! A couple of thoughts re: BC's, Obedience and such..... I've noticed that in the UK it is very BC dominated - particularly for obedience/agility. I also wonder if this may be because people think "i'm going to get a BC so I can do obedience or agility" rather than simply obtaining a dog and entering with that dog???? Just a thought. ETA: Amhilite - I think NZ obedience is based very closely on UK obedience

Yep - totally agree - but that same dog if treated with aversives by someone who doesn't know what they are doing, could also become domineering and aggressive. It can happen both ways, i'm certainly not denying that. But I still stand by what I said

Ok - i'll bite If you are referring to my previous post - I was not knocking aversive methods. I was simply saying that for "Joe and Jane Public" who do NOT have any concept of dog training whatsoever, can do damage to the dog by using ANY method of training. But I would rather see damage done by 'food training' than 'aversive' training whereby they have corrected the wrong thing, forced the dog to do something that is not in the way intended etc,etc. I didn't voice an opinion on any method, but I still think that what is written is 'dangerous' for someone who can easily misinterpret what was well intended. Also the theories are out of date - I mean...... never tug with your dog? Never rough house?! These are not dependent on the type of training used. Oh - and i'll bite on this bit as well... there is no such thing as a 'purely positive trainer'.... if they are - they won't be any good! Consequences happen for ALL actions

An enthusiastic worker obviously still has what I would consider moderate drive - in most cases. An enthusiastic worker 'enjoys' work, likes the rewards etc,etc.... but for me the main difference is if they don't do it, they don't care. They don't put their heart and soul into it..... I think it is one that you have to see, to understand/ get the picture??? You and me both! From your ETA2 description, the few differences I see in my dogs and why I define them as moderate rather than high is that it's not ALL of the focus ALL of the time and that the ball only has value when there's a person to throw it to (or another dog to keep it from). Being ball obsessed would also fit that description, so is being obsessed the same as being high drive? It's hard work getting across what you mean!!! Add to that - I find 'drive' one of the most difficult things to define!!! Good point about obsession/ drive. Obsession - they only have eyes for the Ball, but they don't work for the ball - they only want it to be thrown etc. Drive - They have an 'obsession' about the object (see some HD dogs and their obsession with agility!), but are able to channel their obsession into working out how to get it. If dealing with one object, I totally agree that there is a fine line between obsession and drive.

I getcyha now OK - the dog I'm picturing as only having one drive is pretty much the 'non stop manic dog'..... BUT because of training, they CAN and WILL stop when there is nothing to do..... I agree with you that a dog who is only switched on when the ONE thing is presented but otherwise so laid back it is horizontal is not a high drive dog.... but a dog that is 'non stop manic' when the one thing is presented as well as asking for it when it isn't there is high drive. Keep in mind, I do think that all dogs should have (or be taught to have) an off switch though ;) Like I said - the ideal for me are dogs that do have a variety of 'drives'.... but I don't exclude those who drive for one thing........ I have a dog pictured in my mind, but I just cant' explain it properly. ETA: just saw your post Vickie - totally agree with..... You can train a dog to respond to rewards, but the switch for drive definitely needs to be there ;) - they can be enthusiastic, but not 'drivey' about it ;) To continue on what you say about the 'same' of not having a high drive dog etc - I totally agree - it depends on what you want. I'm glad I don't have a manic dog for my first - because it has enabled me to work hard with him in our chosen sports AND be a better handler so that with my high drive dog I am not fumbling with new sport, psycho dog and a whole lot of other things :D Do you also think (given that you said you think it breed specific) that we should look at 'drives' as a whole spectrum across the breeds..... OR do you think we need to break down into specific breeds.... for example - would a high drive Cavvy have the same drive as a high drive BC?!?! In your opinion? ETA2: ok - here is me trying to describe a high drive dog that is driven by only one thing: *when that object (tennis ball) is out - that is all she focuses on *She will work for ANYTHING to get that ball *When the ball is present, food is not exciting, she will take it, but it isn't really a reward *When the ball is left out and no one is there, she is completely focused on the ball, including making her own games with it. *When the ball is gone and you are out - she will either a) start looking for the ball, b) pester you for the ball. *Pats mean nothing when the ball is out *If the ball is gone, owners gone she can settle *If the ball is gone, owners are settled (ie: watching TV) she can settle Now this girl, was an incredibly high drive dog, but wasn't trained/ provided with anything other than treats/ tennis ball. But see how all other things that she does value can reduce in value when the 'ultimate' is there? Had I actually *trained* her, I think she would have been drivey for other things too though.

Me too - I would rather see the drive across the board, but I do recognise that some dogs are simply driven by one thing - and I wouldn't knock them out as 'not' high drive if that makes sense? My ideal would be to have a variety of things that makes the dog 'tick'.... Yes - you want a dog to be busy - but you can have a level of neuroticism (sp?), which wouldn't be classified as high drive... but I do get what you mean. However, a dog can be 'high drive' but still settle... if as you say - it's physical/ mental stimulation is met :D I get what you mean now - so it only 'sometimes' switches him on - not all the time.... I thought initially you meant all the time ;) I don't get this bit???? So you are saying if there is a dog that will be bursting out of it's skin, speeding around the agility course, non stop manic dog, can't stop moving driven by the tennis ball is not high drive? I had a high drive Kelpie previously - but her drive was solely for the tennis ball (partly because she wasn't really provided with alternatives)... she 'liked' food, but it isn't what made her tick. Her whole focus was on that ball..... if you saw her.... she would be classified as high drive..... I like Vickie's description of it - it is a much more concise way of saying what is going across my brain at the moment!!!

Why change? simply because ideas like 'letting your dog win tug makes them more dominant' is ill founded and (I believe) been proven to be not true (provided you don't have any pre-existing dominance issues). While I understand what you are saying about 'jo and jane' public - my guess is those 'jo and jane public' wouldn't be getting VicDog to begin with . Add to that - although some can 'ruin' a dog with positive training ("oh my dog won't do it without food etc,etc).... you can also ruin a dog with misinterpretation of these methods too. I may be wrong - but ruining a dog with force, would be much worse (i'm thinking learned helplessness, shutting down etc) than ruining a dog with food. Reason? Well - like you have already said - Jo and Jane Public simply CANT read their dogs and don't know when their 'training' is being detrimental to their dogs JMHO

This bit was in answer to what type of drive i'm looking at when I consider high drive - in the sense that it isn't necessarily just food/toys/ attention This is what I deem as 'high drive' (although I may very well be wrong :cool: ) Do what and to what level? A dog may want to 'do' something but only at moderate speed etc. I tend to believe that a dog won't simply want to 'do' something just because, but they want to 'do' it for the rewards they are to receive. That might be the chase, running with owners, food, toys etc,etc,etc. IMO - you can still have a 'high drive' dog with an off switch - so thereby not *constantly* wanting to do things . Why is it low drive then? If it goes 'spastic nutso' for one thing? Does it only last a short time? IMO - if that 'low drive' dog goes spastic for one thing, you could use that one thing to build up drive to a reasonable level - it's all about finding ways to make your dogs 'tick'..... to me - low drive dogs are the 'plods' of the dog world - never doing anything above 2nd gear.... so you show them their 'favourite' thing and they look at you as if to say 'woah.... coool.... ' and that's about it