leopuppy04

Agree 100%. For example, if my dog plonks itself in a 'sit' infront of me, I usually 'release' them from it even though I didn't ask for it I like eagerness in training, there's no denying that, but I don't think it should be cue'd in. But then hey (and I think you do this too AD with CK) if my dogs are going to bring me a tug toy from the box, I usually engage in that because I want to encourage interaction with me. I want to encourage that 'drive'. However, if I don't *feel* like it, then if I say 'not now', take the toy away then I don't want them to obsess about it . I also want a dog that when I rip out a tug they jump off their beds and say "yay - PLAY time!". Now that helps in the agility ring when we can have a massive tug on a toy, I drop it next to my feet at the start line, and I know my dog will focus on the course and not on the toy I just dropped Horses for courses isn't it :D. As for the tug - use it TL! If Tilly loves tugging, use it when you ask for heel. Say "Heel" she jumps in then you go YEE HAR and rip out the tug for a game

I see what you guys are saying I like my guys to be pretty raring to go when we do trials, but I don't think I have a word for it - to me that's part of the warm up exercises. I guess because I don't HAVE to say the word "Ready" to get the dog into the same state. Nor do I have to follow the same routine. We just might tug before a run, do some hand touches or something like that. Having said that, I've not had the issue where if I say 'heel' the dog has said 'not today'. The dog has usually bounced into heel position and been bursting at the seams to work Guess it's just a difference of the way that you train/ how you describe things

"Ready" is a very good one and I do that too to rev them up But it's not a case of 'if you don't say ready' the dog isn't going to work, but usually if I say "ready" I get a bark in response

Well for me training is happening 24/7 so if I say 'sit' or something like that I would expect them to 'cue' in. I do a lot of proofing with them, even with the fun stuff, where we'll switch from play to work all the time - so I'll throw the ball (or pretend to) and then call out a position/ trick and they can get the reward (toy) when they respond. Or I get them to sit before going for a swim in the lake etc Same with 'heel' - I will cue it and they will or at least should respond in any situation I do however understand what you mean - so I use a few rules: *I won't ask for a behaviour unless I know my dog is 'switched in' (so looking at me or I have their attention). This means I may call their name first in some instances *I play 'the name game' a lot so that the name means all these wonderful things happen. I want them UBER responsive to their name. So say for example if Leo is off mugging people for sausage, if I say "Leo" I want him to flip around as if to say 'oooh what are we going to do" because I may have something better than sausage When I am doing shaping exercises, where *any* behaviour may get a reward, I will use a cue such as "working" to cue them into 'lets try and find out what I'm looking for'. This is because I want free shaping to only happen at a specific time and I don't want my dogs offering behaviours in the middle of a sit stay ETA: oops! Very important for me to have a release cue because until they hear that 'word' I would expect them to maintain the last behaviour I asked for (eg: sit). So I use "ok" (contrary to what a lot of people say, it just came naturally to me, more than "free") which tells them you are now 'free' to do as you please, or I will cuethe next behaviour ('fetch', 'down' etc).

Basic 1 'off the street' is taught with luring too (mainly) but as Jules said, instructors are taught alternative methods too This is a difficult people for some to get past . Especially in a trial where people will come back to you and say "but you didn't tell your dog to STAY" Just be insistent and eventually it will sink in for others . I say 'stay' but know heaps of people that don't

THIS I definitely agree with!

Nooooo to Novice heeling on lead!!! LOL! I HATE the lead . Hate it, hate it, hate it I love speak on command - so does my dog

I LOVE hyperflyte discs - so would definitely take ML up on the offer Kong also makes small puppy flyers which are really soft so your chi might like that not sure about triple crown - they make discs, but I'm not sure if they make small ones

story of my life - breaking stays I do as Ptolomy does - if the dog breaks the stays -oops back into the car, try again another day One thing I also noticed is that in practice people will actually completely 'release' their dogs from a sit stay (so dog can stand up etc) but not in a trial because they are worried the dog will move around a bit too much, so after the 'stay' they will automatically ask the dog to 'drop' (from a seated position). I found that this was a *key* reasong my dog was dropping as they were pre-empting the 'down'. I get her up in between stays, she turns around and then we do the down stay. we still have the occasional stay problem (for other reasons) but it has helped heaps Have you done any resistance training?

In UK style work you can talk to your dog in the early classes. So for us I think CCD/ Novice it would be great if we could talk to our dogs. Natrually the more you talk, the more that will bite you in the bum when you get to 'higher' classes I say scrap the stays . I hate them and I worry about the unforseen accidents that can happen between dogs

I go the club for ring experience and to mix with people who enjoy what I like, and also to bounce ideas off each other. With my first dog, he did all the classes. My second dog was enrolled in all the classes, but we seldom participated, just sat the tests. with future dogs I would do PPS and puppy school, but the rest of my training would be out of a club. I still go as often as I can for the ring experience which is invaluable for me

I still wouldn't call it 'defiance' though, even if I did correct I believe it's an emotion that dogs do not posess. How can we say that 'my dog doesn't pull down the washing on Mondays to spite me' to then say 'when my dog disobeys a sit he is being defiant'. I believe that's why pet owners are so confused as to what/ why their dog is behaving as such in particular instances (why is my dog barking at the back door, digging holes etc)

Well Ness - as yourself this - she (whichever 'she' it may be )... is clicker trained and therefore warrant to throwing behaviours around. so it could be: *excitement 'yay we're working, I KNOW how to do this one!' followed by the correct response (I will not 'pay', perhaps not at all, these behaviours as well so that the dog can distinguish what I want) *Offering a new behaviour to see if you like this one better * a brain fart ETA - I agree with Persephone that something as little as our menstural cycles can affect our dogs behaviour too

I think you are putting too much thought into what a dog actually *thinks* . Confusion usually is a result of being underpaid or poor timing (again underpaid!)... say I missed C&T a few times one behaviour which I should have, confusion will set in and the dog may be 'defiant' to not do the behaviour any more. This is because he *no longer sees the value in doing so* either due to the confusion (so behaviour is no longer rewarding) or the rules have changed (rewards don't come any more). I think you need to be variable with what, when, how and where you deliver the rewards. I also think that what you are describing between your parent's dogs and your previous dogs is chaining behaviours. eg: - what causes a dog to jump on you then sit down? Because we *ignore* all the other times the dog is doing just as we would like (sitting down nicely, staring holes into us for a treat) mainly because we are too busy gasbagging to the other person. Our dogs can quickly chain a behaviour and learn that the *best predictor* to getting a reward is not to always sit quietly (he gets ignored), not to consistently jump (he gets ignored/ punished) but to jump, then sit, or bark, then sit... because THAT"s what gets your attention. Dog jumps - you think "oh that's right, I need to reward my dog for sitting" Dog sits - you reward, and then keep up the flow of rewards for maintaining that sit. Simple mistake that you see often

Nope - I think exactly the same as you

to that quote TSD! I can also attest to Zig's amazing recall I think that if I went to a more challenging environment I would make it really easy for them to succeed. I also think you learn to read the lesser signals of when your dog is confused. It's true that you will and can at some stage misjudge how reliable they are on something, but I wouldn't chastise the dog for that. I would end on a high and smack myself on the wrist for not thinking things through and starting at a lower level of difficulty

RS - when ya gotta go you gotta go :D btw - I hope it was the dog and not you ;) ;)

No one said you can't 'get there' in the end But to master it in one go... I don't think that's possible :D. Even the masters haven't mastered it and that's the fun of training and trialing :D New dogs = new mistakes and new learning I think you can go further with Ruby - talk to Sandi and co as Ness said and they will be able to help you with your heeling woes

hehe - it's the same stuff I get the opposite response. My mum told her auntie I was feeding the dog those 'salted fish' and her response was along the lines of "why are you wasting such good food on the dog" ROFL!

Here ya go RS - Here's an encouraging story for you Leo is the first dog I've trained and also trialled :D. If you saw our original heeling videos or what he used to be like you would be horrified!!! It was disgusting!!! ROFL! I had NO idea what I was doing, but some great help from a great club . We went on to get our CCD and CD in quick succession with some very nice wins and scores. I took about 6mths out, went in and straight away picked up 2 passes for our CDX. Third one took a little longer, but we got there with a lovely score in the end . He's now getting ready to enter the UD rings, and if he's handler can sort herself out, I'ld like to take him through to OC, but frankly, I don't care . This already is further than I ever imagined to get with him . Agility titles also to boot . So you can get there and do it. We were horrible to begin with - I'm amazed that the poor boy is still working with me . You will always have things you wantt o fix and 'do better' next time, but that's the fun of it in my eyes . If you mastered it after your first dog, where's the fun in that! LOL!

Haha - same here Jess - every time I saw you you were about to go into the ring! i was exactly the same! dogs ran brilliantly but the handler was seriously dodgy!!!! I ran a FAB ex jumping round with Kinta and totally FC where I didn't need to, and as a result completely confused the poor sod . Cost us the pass and the rest of the run was brilliant!!! I think kinta wanted to murder me You've got your Masters titles don't you?!?!!?!

Well my brag from today is that we entered the agility ring for the first time since about.... Feburary this year I was really pleased with both dogs, some really nice runs usually handling faults from me that stuffed the dog up - well either that or not walking the course before running it Ended up with an open jumping pass - was chuffed with that - nice run by Leo and for a dog that used to struggle with distance is an achievement for us to say the least

I do much the same as Cosmolo

Sorry - not the right wording - I know it's a correctional tool - but I meant not a correctional tool to be used as a check chain as so many do. It works of R- and not P+, which does change how you use it. I hate how people 'pop' their dogs on a head collar. I agree cosmolo - I used to like Halti's till they changed it and now I can't stand them . I used to agree with you about the gentle leader, but they more I've used of them, the more I like them. I NEVER used to use them at all. :D

I think it depends on the situation and the dog. I'm not a fan of halti's in my experience. I find them poorly made, dogs can get out of them quickly and a lot of dogs hate the wider band. SOME dogs they are better suited too and they like it. You do usually need to put a stitch in it somewhere to stop the neck strap from loosening itself. I think the most important thing is how they are used and that they are fitted properly. Without being fitted properly, the dogs HATE them, and they will rub and sit in the incorrect place. I like the infin8 for walking. I use them on both of mine sparingly. Once you get used to how to put it on, I prefer them to normal halters as it is not putting that stress on the dogs neck turning their head left or right, but certainly still gives more control. For the avid puller, or dogs where you need to redirect where they are looking, I would NEVER recommend one - but they work for me :D. especially if you have those people with dogs that pull a little, but they are avid that if they walk on a halter they are giving their dog the full 2m lead :D: I used to hate the gentle leader because it provides constant pressure, but now I quite like them. I think they fit comfortably on the dog and there has only been the odd one where they don't fit properly, the metal band sits too far back and the dog makes funny noises when they pant My favourite is still the black dog one - but some dogs chew through the thin black rope, and on my girl, they don't fit her. the small is too small and the medium has a ridiculous amount of length on flowing down from the nose piece. I actually will probably get her a gentle leader, should I require one. I think it depends on the dog, but usually I can tell which one will suit them best. Better yet, I quite like the no pull harnesses to a degree too (easy walker harness) I think the most important things with halters are: *train your dog to wear the halter *DONT give them the full length of the lead, DONT use it as a correctional tool as you should NEVER pop on a halter, and for goodness sake, DONT let your dog charge to the end of the lead and yank their head to the left or right when they reach the end :D All movement with a halter should be smooth and controlled - I get people to move themselves too when they use it - so if they want to break a dogs focus on something - hold on near the buckle of the lead, turn the dogs head GENTLY and when you do that, turn your body to the direction you are turning the dog also