leopuppy04

Hi Guys, I have a 10mth old Aussie that seems to have a sensitive tum.... about a month ago she woke me up at about 5am and vomited constantly for about an hr before taking her to the vet, whereupon she was fine. Given a shot, and was fine ever since. Fed her on bland food for about a few days before re-introducing her normal foods. A week later, she was sick again, just the once, still eating normally and no other ill effects at all. This has been continuing since, whereby almost to the DOT every tues or wed she will be sick. There are NO similarities that I can find: *It doesn't matter if she is fed raw, dry, bones etc - she will still be sick on those days *She's an indoor dog and I'm confident that she is not getting into anything (she was crated all day yesterday and was still sick) *other than last night, she is not depressed after being sick, nor is she off her food. After much thought I thought maybe she just has a sensitive tummy to 'fresh' foods - what I mean is that usually when I train her, I sometimes use treats (devon, chunkers, 4 legs etc) that have been in the fridge for about 3-4 days. This would usually coincide with a Tues/ Wed due to my training schedule and the fact I usually have treats left over from the weekend/ our monday night training sessions. So I'm going to not use those treats unless freshly pulled out and defrosted from the freezer and see if there are any changes. Anyone have experience similar to this? Should I be worried? Should I get bloods done if this continues?? She never had any problems prior to about a month ago where she had that night of being pretty crook.... but then I think that could be coincidence as I started to pull out a higher quantity of treats as I was training more and getting sick of pulling them out of the freezer every day so I would pull out treats enough for 2-3 days... Thoughts?!

*update* Well after about a week of letting them stew over it (read: bad trainer had no time to train) I have tried again with a session last night. Kinta - little smart @rse is now backing back about 1/2 way across the room VERY energetically Leo - a little more hesitant, but with a bit of encouragement is now backing back just short of 1/2 way across the room Tahli - still learning - she wasnt' feeling well yesterday and has less shaping experience. She is now taking between 4 -6 paces back now YAY!

Yeah!! Even if you have to hear "great border collie!" a million times I was only telling LP just yesterday how beautifully her young tri-coloured Border Collie was working. Luckily she knows how much I enjoy stirring her up some people are just so rude!! :D hehe - All I have to do is spell Dalmation wrong and that would send you into a flying rage.... (maybe....)

Was that the lady with the heeler? I had a lady watch his whole routine and made me so nervous Yay - go the Tailed Aussies eh Wuffles

well done!!! We're 1/4 of the way there but alas Vic is being a royal pain for hosting the blasted class! I think it's awesome that Mr Jedi is now a N.Ch! Well done again Wuffles and Ava - she's an awesome little dog . I have a very teeny brag, but I'm super proud. I've pulled out a certain little tailed dog on the weekend to see where she is at with her obedience. This is a dog that since I moved out in May last year I have not touched one once of obedience with and even then we had just done 1/2 a dozen sessions teaching her position and what not. My dad has continued classes with her (read: how to ruin good heelwork 101) so I had no idea where she would be at or whether I should even try to re-train her.... but alas, I do kind of want a few obedience titles on my little home-bred (and lets face it, I need some confidence building after the recent near misses in UD!). Saturday afternoon we did some work with her and she was 'there' but a bit laggy, slow and generally unmotivated. I did some work, saw some improvement and stopped. Sunday morning, pulled her out again and WOW the difference WAS AMAZING! Here was this dog who had awesome focus, she was up, happy and her heelwork position fantastic! Sure, she needs some refinement, but gee.... blow me away with the difference in one day and her eagerness to work! Sooo..... looks like I have a dog to train up to CD soon.... Am so proud of my big black tailed show dog wannabe

How can you not use ANY reward marker? Or did you mean that you don't use a NRM?!

Pax- you got a linky?? Hehe I'm very much the same as you when it comes to trick training!!

Erny - I think it provides a stronger behaviour and I think it Develops your skills as a trainer Well success. I used vickies method of the placement of reward- we now have Tahli- backing 4 paces- front feet first then back Leo- backing 2 paces- back feet Kinta- backing 4 paces - varies between back feet or front feet first. Each dog had 2x 5 min sessions tonight . Knew they were useful for something! Lo and behold I also got a shake and bow offered by tahli as well as a really cute 'sniffing armpit' type behavious- so I really hope I can capture that in another session!!! Kinta offered a whole array of known and unknown behaviors the smarty pants

Thanks cos. I agree-'I am mainly being so strict on myself as I feel it really improves handling and training skills . I also have solely shaped a heel on 2 of my 3'dogs

Completely agree!! Can I ask what are some behaviours you shaped with their bodies and also what was one of the first you started with??

this is what I was going to say. I could never truely free shape my dogs to walk backwards (just as I couldn't truely shape them to come to basic heel position) because they never do that of their own accord (unless there is a physical blocker, and then it isn't free shaping). They obht know the clicker (I only use it for free shaping, no luring at all) and they both offer all sorts of behaviours as soon as the clicker appears but it has never entered their heads to try walk backwards when there is no inpediment. I agree to a point... you can free shape a behaviour which is natural to a dog - so any 'normal' position to a dog. But obviously it would be easier to shape a dog that walks backwards a lot than a dog that doesn't often walk backwards. Mine do back up of their own accord, but it's cued by me (as in they are in my space) or they are blocked. I don't want to teach it this way (difficult I am aren't I ). It's just like trying to shape a great dane to beg - can be done but that would be a REALLY complex exercise rather than shaping a little pap that always jumps up for food to beg . Because I'm a crazy dog trainer who wants to improve her shaping skills, but also because I want my dogs to back up off one cue rather than me saying "back, back, back etc" to get them to back away from me . Different context also. A dog that backs up in heel understands heel position, I don't think they really understand 'backing up' Yup - I knew what you meant

Perfect! I was throwing it backwards but not between their front legs, or feeding them head lowered to push their weight backwards . Thanks Vickie. Excellent - a step up from throwing the food under the chair, but reducing the option of them wanting to run through the chair and then back around to face me . Will try this too I knew DOL would give me some ideas Can you tell that I'm now trying to do some training that plays to my dogs' (and my) weaknesses rather than doing the simple stuff

I could, but as I said, I want to shape (so no cues) and I'm a stubborn old sod :D. I could easily train Leo to back onto the mat by using his 'back cue' but I want him to think about it and begin to offer behaviours with his body. Good idea! I have jump bumps! But it will have to wait till I return hom on sunday . Anne might have some foam thingies lying around though

Some good ideas FDT Something I *could* do although again, it does rely on you having a dog to shape the behaviour. The issue would still be the same unfortunately as they are offering behaviours, just not the *right* one :D Yes, they know the back cue, but I want to shape the behaviour and get them to think . I also don't want to have to say 'back' for every step backwards if that makes sense? Esentially yes, you are correct, the idea of rewarding any feet movement is to isolate to the dog that the rewarding behaviour is foot movement, before selecting only for rear foot movement . Both - rewarding in position (remember her steps are not far, so it is not pulling her forward again) but also throwing food behind to encourage backward movement. Maybe I'm just an impatient old sod! they are making progress... just reallllyyyyyy slooooowwwwwllllyyyyyy....

I was thinking that TSD maybe something to step over or ON to... Any suggestions on surfaces!?? My thoughts are though give that they are very front steering motivated again it will take a while to get them to offer the back up rather than just offering a multitude of behaviours with front feet/ mouth / nose etc. My other thought is that I first shape them to jump into and out of a box as this can (if taught correctly) brig more awareness to the back end... But again not sure if that will solve the problem :D DB - thanks for the suggestion . They do know how to back up if you walk into them but because you are cue-ing with your body it is not true to shaping . Yes I know- hard crowd pleaser

NB: I am after shaping thoughts and techniques only please. I know how to lure the behaviour, but do not wish to teach it this way. NB2: All dogs are clicker savvy and 'shaping' savvy so they do understand to 'offer' behaviours etc etc. Problem: I want to shape all three of my dogs to walk backwards, but they have very little rear end awareness. We have however done other REA exercises such as perch work, heeling backwards and walking back if I step into them, so they have some and do all these exercises well (with the exception of the pup who hasn't done anything other than the perch work). Why: I believe shaping will provide a stronger behaviour AND that they will continue the behaviour (ie: walk backwards much further) than if it were lured. Methods: I’m trying to teach in two separate exercises, neither with much success. Method 1: Shaping exercises – sit down and wait first for your dog to show any shift of weight forward or backward and reward that. Start to select only for backwards shift of weight, then asking for the step backwards (front or back paws). Then begin to select for back paw movement only. Continue to select/ shape until you get a dog moving backwards nicely. Problems: Tahli I’ve got up to two small steps back with her back feet, which I’m rapt about, but I’m not sure if she’s totally understanding the exercise yet. L and K are hopeless. They are GREAT at shaping when there is an object involved but not when it involves their bodies only. The best I can get out of them is a tiny step backwards usually only with the front feet and this is often coupled between the multiple sit/ downs that they have offered and they will repeatedly offer it regardless of a NRM! Method 2: Target/ shaping exercise – sit down and start with a mat at your feet. Shape a good *standing* mat behaviour, then gradually move your chair backwards. Keep the dog in front of you (off the mat) and then shape them to walk backwards (initially one step - remember that the mat has been highly reinforced so they want to head back to the reinforcement targe) to the target mat due to the strong reinforcement of the mat position. Problems: My dogs have all been shaped for the ‘go to your mat and lie down’. I use a different type of mat, but I’m still getting the dog that will turn around, race to the mat and stand there, rather than walking backwards. Again, Tahli with the lower experience, if I throw the food forwards (under my chair) she will grab the food then back up and hit the mat with her back feet – so she is slowly getting there, the big kids however will grab the food, run forward out from under the chair and then turn around and re position (forward movement) back onto the mat. If I lure them forward (off the mat) then wait, they again will offer a sit/drop. HELP!!!!!! I’m at a loss, because the dogs are offering only a few behaviours so it’s not giving me much to ‘go’ on. Where I got the methods from: Method 2: Kay Laurence “Learning Games” book (and normally I love Kay Laurence stuff and this book is very good/ method makes sense to me) Method 1: Part common sense, also from “The Focussed Puppy” book (don’t know who that is by). I am now determined that I will teach this as a shaping exercise as I think it will develop MY skills of shaping behaviours without objects in place! Am open to suggestions – even ones where it’s shaping other behaviours first (eg: getting the dog to think with their bodies) to build up their history of learning!! How long have I been trying? 2 sessions on each method, started on Monday.

Most importantly D&R - Don't try to do too much too soon (easier said than done I know, because we get so excited about new dogs learning new things ). Tahli is now 10mths old and I'm only just starting to work on some 'important' stuff - I like to give them a chance to grow up, develop and explore the world first - there are so many other stuff to teach in terms of social skills before teaching them equipment/ performance exercises. I often met with awed looks from fellow trainers when I say I've taught Tahli 'nothing', however watching these foundation DVDs I've learnt that over the 10mth period I really have taught her a lot, but not 1/2 as much as I taught my other two (4.5yrs and 6.5yrs) while they were young. I do obedience too, but I have kept that stuff to a minimum also. Things I teach from a young age are things such as: *Learning games (a book by this title written by Kay Laurence is great!!) . this will give your pup the right tools to 'learn' how to learn. *The foundation books aforementioned are great for making sure newbies start off on the right foot. Things like teaching your dog all about reinforcement zone, blind cross body lines (BCBL), tugging, targeting, nose touches, driving forwards to tugs, CIRCLE WORK, sit and wait, settling on a mat, running around a cone, perch work (rear end awareness), holding articles (for obedience).... the list goes on and on and obviously loads to do before you start on equipment work. These exercises help build a GREAT foundation (and hopefully drive and love for training!) before starting on the 'serious' stuff. Now that Tahli is 10 mths I'm starting to refine this a bit. Over the next few months I plan to work on some more foundation exercises (perch work, walking backwards, running around a cone, driving to tug etc) but also adding some new exercises such as crate games, one jump exercises and some SS jump grids. By about 14mths I hope to start working on some GD box work and probably start going to formal classes about now :D. Best of luck with your puppy. You will find a wealth of information on here also, so don't be shy to ask!!! ;)

thanks eridor - I'm aware that Animal network and GTG are the same, but I also had some other questions that I wanted answered too...

Highly recommended for a newbie. Based on the GD handling system, I watched the first disc last night and was thoroughly impressed! Explained really well and DVD well set out. Nothing there that I didn't know prior, but that's ok, it was good to revise and also good to see if there were any foundation skills that I still need to work on before starting the more 'serious' stuff

Is the Animal Network the only company to use? The prices seem much higher than the last time I did the testing (though that may be because I have to get CEA tested this time...). do you know if they offer discounts like GTG used to for doing multiple tests/ testing multiple dogs? they talk about 'puppy' fees - anyone know what age the dog qualifies as a 'puppy' (eg: under 12wks, 6mths or 12mths etc) TIA

Hi Guys, I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but I am looking at getting my girl done ASAP. does anyone have any particular recommendations of who they would send their x-rays too? Anyone been disappointed with any of their x-ray results?

Am just starting to do some foundation work for Tahli and have a list of things I want to review and watch before I get started (and build on what we have already done). Things on my list are: Foundation Training for Agility - Moe Strefnel Crate Games - Susan Garrett Success with one jump - susan garrett Foundation jumping - Susan Salo along with Jumping Susan Salo and later Advanced jumping Susan Salo (actually... hmm... I don't think I have the foundation jumping DVD ) Later down the track I'll be looking at: Greg Derrett - the 3 DVDs (I want to have a good foundation before we work up to box work etc) 2x2 Weaves - Susan Garrett - when we are up to that level and for obedience some of the Chris Bach DVDs I want to review . Books wise: "The Focussed Puppy" - can't remember who this is by "Building blocks for Performance" - Can't remember who this is by... "Shaping Success" - Susan Garrett "Clicker world obedience" - Kay Laurence and some of the e notes/ learning notes that came with the DVDs - namely from Chris Bach and Susan Garrett as well as Clean Run Wow - looks like someone's got a lot of work to do . Lucky for me it's mostly revision, so it's just about helping me set up clear goals and plans to do some training with Tahli rather than trying to remember what I did with my previous two (not half as much as I intend to do with Tahli!)

Oi - you forgot Laura and lil Nel who also made the trop

remind me again why we do this Ness?! Sometimes it's just like this trialling in UD!

well done everyone for their wonderful results - so good to see! Mr Leo pulled at my heartstrings again this weekend - this time getting up to the signals exercises before he decided to look blankly at me when I gave him the first signal for the down in the distance control Doesn't help when the judge tells you that up until then the dog had only lost 1pt in the heelwork up until then :) We'll get there soon - though judging by the way UD goes, maybe it's due to all fall into a shambles soon! But his seekback was awesome, so I take heart in that! Missy K.... yeah.... lets not go there . But I must say that I felt a little guilty for berating her seeing as we got home and she had a severe case of the trots! Bad Mummy!