wally2020

Who is the instructor going to be??? Just Curious :cool:

Hi You are right, it does depend on the experience of the handler wether you start in the round yard or out in the paddock. I found that by working a pup out in a padoock with an older dog, could cause problems with your older dog, such as if you've got a very pushy pup, you could bring out any turn tail your older dog may have. My Older dog Wiz gets very exited and hyped when working with a younger dog. It probably depends on the older dog. I try and progress out into the paddock, wether or not I have a Yardy dog or a paddock dog, to try and get a bit more distance. But it is not until I have my Pup/dog balancing properly and bringing the sheep to me. It is still important to have distance and everything that you want outside, because if all you do with your pup is let it push, you will find it very hard to get it to work calmly to get the sheep in to the smaller yards. I also know a very successful three sheep trialer who teaches all his dogs to back and push sheep through the yards, as it makes the dog accept sheep better. It works for him. I agree that you have to do what works for you, but you should also be open to try different things.... mjk05 it sounds like you have tried it and it didn't work for you. I would also reccomend trying to get to a Greg Prince school before ruling out the round yard, he has had alot of success with round yards and is able to teach really well. Jesomil I will hopefully be going to Warragul again this year as it was so enjoyable last year. I had ago at the duck trial as well last year, but my dog would not work ducks!!! Everytime I gave a command he would stand up on his hind legs and look out over the fence towards the sheep

Hi Jesomil, Were u at the Warragul trial last year, I went there for the day, nice little trial, I think i ended up fourth in the Novice.

Hi, Sorry have been away at the Ballarat Three Sheep Trial for the week just got back. I have found the round yard very useful as you can correct anything that goes wrong. You do need to have quiet dog broken sheep that are not going to run around the outside of the yard silly, and als the handler has to know what to do and where to block ect. It is used to start the dog balancing and then you progress onto stops and directions. I use this way with all my dogs and I have one Kelpie that I know use for Three Sheep, Yard and Utility trials, as well as mustering in 300 acre hill paddocks as well as penning up in Shearing sheds and general farm work, so I don't think you can say that round yards create dogs that are mechanical and not suited to general work. From my experience, putting a young pup/dog out into a 2 or 3 acre paddock is usually not the best idea, because they are able to get away with too much the sheep are able to run too much, which means that the pup is not able to head properly and they end up learning to tail or chase sheep, which if you want to general work with you dog, is not what you want, also you are not able to correct any biting that may occur. I have a 3 month old pup which is just starting in the round yard and after about the first go he is now able to balace the sheep to me and bring them after me. I use a rake when first starting a pup, beacuse you are able to block them lot easier, and you can push them out with it, or correct them for biting. This is just what I have found Wiz

Hi Vickie, Yes definately, I use Greg Princes method when training, and once you get them balancing you start putting your stop and directions on them. It has worked for me quite sucessfully. Using this method I have actually be able to Three Sheep a Kelpie that is mainly a yard dog. It did take a long time and there were a lot of stops used to start with, but he is now not bad at it, not right up there with the Collies, but not too bad. Wiz

I was wondering if you have just tried putting a second collar on her?? If you clip your lead to the back collar she should not be able to slip it off because it gets caught on the front collar. My mum had a kelpie that had a thicker neck than her head and when ever she went to tie the kelpie up it would just pull back and slip the collar up, but since putting the second collar on, it has solved the problem. It might be worth a try? Wiz

Hi The round yard is very good for starting younger pups/dogs as there are no corners, and you are able to position yourself to prevent the dog from getting in the wrong place. Of Course you do not stay in the round yard for ever, but it is a good place to get your stops and directions, and then by the time you are ready to graduate out into a little paddock you should be pretty confidant that you have got enough control over your dog to be able to prevent it from doing silly things like crossing and splitting sheep. Wiz

Hi All KelpieI I think Euroa is on about the last weekend in October. I'm not sure wether I am going to Casterton or not, there is a Three Sheep Trial at Deniliquin, and I'll will probably go to that. Regards to Yard Trialing a Three Sheep Dog. There are people out there that belive that yard work, or any other work for that matter beside Three work will wreck them for three Sheep. But the yard trialing can give your dog confidence to come in a push and able to work in closer, as long as you have enough control over your dog, and think you will be able to keep him out a bit once they come back Three Sheeping then there shoudn't be a problem. The Three Sheep experience will probably help you out in the yard anyway, because your dog will have better cover and hold. Michael

I think he might be involved with Welshpool and maybe a couple of trials down that way, I haven't been down there, so I don't really know

Thnx clover, i watched a bit of the flyball?? and thought it was great but didn't know who any one was

Hi All The Secretary of the VYUFDA is Helen Boyd and her number is 03 55708212 she should be able to give you all the information that you need. I can give you some yard dates now if you like: May 7th Dundonnell July 8/9 Gippsland (Utility) July 15 Pigeon Ponds That is all I have at the moment, if you want to enter any of them, let me know and I will give you the phone numbers and who to contact for entry forms. Hope that you can all get up to Euroa, it is a local one for me and is a very good course. Michael

Hi Herding Guy It is quieting down a fair bit know, we are getting into three sheep season, we have Warragul on this weekend, but I'm not going there, and then the next one for me is Dundonnel, which is on about the 7th of May. But I look forward to seeing you out and about at the trials, what line of kelpies have you got?? I have got a red/tan dog (Wiz), which is a litter brother to Matti of Denise Agnews, and I have a Philscreek Bitch (Brandy) and I have a S/Bred Bitch as well (Taz) and then I had a litter of pups at the end of last year by Wiz out of Brandy. I learnt alot of what I know from when I worked at the Avenpart Stud, and I also did a lot of schools with Greg Prince. If any one wants to know trial dates for yard Trials you are better of contacting VYUFDA (Yard dog association) Michael

Hi All I thought I would put my point of view across. I am from the country, near Seymour, Victoria. I trial my Avenpart Kelpie in Three Sheep, Yard and Utility Trials. My Dog will also work Sheep or Cattle, in the yards or Paddocks at home in the hills. When you talk to alot of farmers now they will not touch a Border Collie here in Victoria that has had anything to do with Three Sheep Trials, because they are not able to work the mobs. All they want to do is work a few. On the other hand Kelpies are being more and more bred towards Yard work and are losing the ability to work outside, or do a Three Sheep Trial.ata; name="dosubmit" Add Reply I will try again Hi All I thought I would put my point of view across. I am from the country, near Seymour, Victoria. I trial my Avenpart Kelpie in Three Sheep, Yard and Utility Trials. My Dog will also work Sheep or Cattle, in the yards or Paddocks at home in the hills. When you talk to alot of farmers now they will not touch a Border Collie here in Victoria that has had anything to do with Three Sheep Trials, because they are not able to work the mobs. All they want to do is work a few. On the other hand Kelpies are being more and more bred towards Yard work and are losing the ability to work outside, or do a Three Sheep Trial. You go to a Three Sheep Trial in Victoria and tell me how many Kelpies you see. Not Many and it is the same with Border Collies in Yard Trialing. The problem with having City based Trials is that, you have to be able to have a suitable venue, you have to be able to source 300+ sheep to run a trial, there are country based trials that are having trouble doing this. There are many different diseases that sheep can pick up from different places and farmers just don't like lending out there sheep. City people are quite welcome to come out to the "country based" trials, everyone would make them feel welcome and it is a very friendly atmosphere. Herding guy I was wondering where I might have see you at a trial??? Wally2020

Hi TigerJack, What a cute puppy, the obedience will come with age, are you going to try sheep with her at a later age or not. Wally2020

Hi mjk05 This is only my opinion of it. I personally feel that Hook pen makes it easier for poor casting dogs, my dog is one of the worst casting dogs around if the sheep are standing freely out in the paddock or arena, but as soon as put them in a pen he will cast wide. A Three Sheep Trial is meant to show the best DOGS out there. I think that the current setup for letting sheep out is fine, there is no disadvantages to letting them out his way unless your dog cuts in on the cast or stops short and then it is not the sheeps fault, it is the dog that is at fault. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask, as I will have a bit more time to answer them tommorrow. Wally2020

Hi Tigerjack, Welcome to the discussion, what a cute puppy, how old is he/she now, and what are you going to do with him??? Wally2020

Hi Everyone Sorry for all the posts at once, have been away all day, and have only just got back. I think the above quote, shows that there are always dogs out there that can handle all types of sheep/stock and thats what the breeds should aim towards, Everything I have said, is only my opinion. And I have also learnt that my fingers don't like spelling "that" Wally2020

I think that most of the above mentioned traits can be trained into dogs with the right training, and don't worry most dogs mature with age sometimes not until 5 or 6 but eventually they will Wally2020

I think that there are more and more kelpie breeders in Victoria that are breeding mor towards Yard work. Not Yard Trials as alot of people still use there dogs at Home for general station work, alot of younger people are going more into yard trials because they are usually just one day, or they are run over two days Saturday and Sunday, alot of people can't get time off to go to a trial during the week. Alot of three sheep trials are run on weekdays, and are run over three to four days. In the Border Collies I think if you want to get allround station dogs I think want to try and get the old Hiscock lines. In Kelpies I think if you want more natural paddock workers, you have to go to NSW or one of the few Victorian studs that are still breeding those lines. Avenpart Kelpies are still used to do all the mustering of sheep and cattle on there 12500 acre property, and are use Australia and world wide to the same. Wally2020

Hi Tracy I try and get out there and prove it, I have won a couple of Farmers and have penned at Novice level, the problem is that I'm am not as good a handler as Greg Prince or Graham Hasall or Ron Seabrook and my Kelpie that I trial is a natural Yard dog, so I behind before I even start. The likes of Graham Hasall has won open Three Sheep Trials and Utility Championships with Kelpies, so I think he does a pretty good job of it, and Mary McCrabb, Avenglenns mentor has won Three Sheep Trials on numerous occasions to, with the old Glenville lines and I think with Avenparts that she bred herself. I myself only go out there to have a good time, and to give my dogs something else to enjoy, Three Sheep Trialing is only done sucessfully when you have a strong partnership with your dog Wally2020

Avenglenn The sheep do need to worked down, so that they know what a dog looks like, not to the point where they walk through the obsticles by themselves, or to the point where they want to take on the dog, because they have over dogged, There has been a couple of trialers, that said that Cressy verged on this last year. The NZ Hook release : For anyone that doesn't know is a round pen that has an opening on one side that they take the sheep to with a bike or the likes and then put the sheep in it, and the dog cast around the sheep while they are in the pen. The pen is raised up off the ground, so the dog can come in under to move the sheep if need be. I don't think this will be a good thing for the sport, your dog should be capable of picking up the sheep no matter where they end up on the trial ground, you do not lose points until your dog picks up the sheep, the dog does however lose points if they cut in on the cast and cause them to run, also they lose points if they can not bring them back to you in a straight line, but your straight line starts from where your dg picks them up. If you are refering to Ruffy, with sheep only be worked by a bike or the such, But I know your not because you know that they are worked for a couple of days before, just to let them know a dog, not worked down to the point of being pet lambs, but just so they know what a dog is. I didn't say that Alistair was a bad dog handler, Find me some where I said that. The Sport of Three Sheep Trialing was a hobby for farmers and there dogs and to help farmers find better dogs for use on farm, the idea of trials is to mimic what you would do at home, now days it is nothing like what you would do at home. Some of the greatest Three Sheep and farm Border Collies around were bred and work by the great Jack Hiscock as I'm sure Avenglenn would agree. By the way Avenglenn wasn't it just acouple of weeks a go that you said that Karrawarra dogs had bad temperments???? I would also like to know why you are not so keen on trialing Kelpies anymore??? Wally2020

Hi Avenglenn, I still don't agree with having to get 90's to be a top a dog, all except on of the handlers, that you mentioned, will only go to trials if they sheep are quite enough for them to get 90's, they kelpies may work alot better, but may not be able to keep them off as far, and not have as pretty as footwork, but if you put them up against them, with sheep like Ruffys or Bendigos, they would not score 90's and they would probably not win either, the better dogs that are able to handle the sheep would come through. This only my opinion, I am and always will be a Kelpie person, and I am going to continue to take my kelpies out there, beacuse I do not go out to win, I go out there to have fun. Wally2020

Hi Kateshep, I think kelpies are fine with kids, they are perhaps a bit exitable around kids, but I don't think any of the kelpies I knew would ever hurt them on purpose, possibly by knocking them with a wagging tail, or jumping on them to lick them, I think it also has to do alot with socilistaion, the same with cats to, as long as they are socialised from young with cats they are normally fine. When I was little, Mum and Dad put up a new fence around a place that we were living at, to keep me in, to their distress I continued to keep getting out, so they sat there and watched me for a while, and what I would is walk up to the kelpie that was lying at the back gate and stand on his side (while he was still asleep) and reach over the gate and unchain it and escape, the kelpie did not even flinch through this whole endevour. Hope that helped Wally2020

Hi Avenglenn You know that I still believe taht kelpies can Three Sheep as well if not better than the Border Collies, but I think that will have to agree to disagree. I think it is good to have other interests with your dogs eg. Agility flyball ect. as it strengthens the bond that you have with your dogs and it also so gives you that little bit more control over them. This is only my observation, I have never done Agility or anything with my dogs so I can't talk from experience. Would like to hear other peoples views on the subject though. Wally2020

Love seeing aal the photos that are coming on,. You are more than welcome to bring your girl with you to have a play on the sheep. Both of taz's parents were the same colour, that Blue and Tan. Tassie, By the sounds of it your dog is going really well, especially for starting at two, I hope you enjoy all the work that you do with, alot of people I know say they would never go back to agility once they get into playing with sheep. Wally2020