Tonymc

A sensible move. Tony

As Erny said, resistance or oppositional reflex is survival.Humans in certain situations also use OR. I see some in the thread are stuck on the outdated belief or view that for a dog to be in prey drive there has to be a prey item present to be chased.Prey drive is much more diverse and complex than a Dog chasing and seizing a prey animal or item. A basic example is a Bloodhound trailing.No prey item in sight!!!The trail may be days old and no visible prey item but the Bloodhound is in full drive trailing. Tony

I may be wrong but I read the title as Dogs showing aggression towards the Handler? If I am wrong and Midol means Human aggression, then its a big big topic with many dynamics and aspects. Tony

Midol, its prey drive.As you know prey drive shows itself in a variety of ways in a variety of breeds. The American Bulldog chasing and holding,the Kelpie mustering sheep,the beagle scenting,the greyhound chasing the lure,the cattledog heeling cattle and so on.Those are just a few examples of prey drive. This is not directed at anybody here, but Humans at times like to complicate things when they do not have to be.I find it amusing when people mention prey drive and then play drive or ball drive when its all the one thing which is prey drive. Pups go into prey drive when playing.Other predators such as lions,tigers so forth have some common ground with dogs.Watch lion cubs mucking around pouncing,jumping and wrestling with each other.Its all about practising skills that prey drive encompasse's which will be used later on in life.Pups show the same behaviour pouncing,running and jumping on each other as Lion cubs and so on.Notice with Pups that if two are mucking around, they will take it turn about in the two roles.One pup will play the part of predator and the other the part of prey animal.The roles will swap back and forth. To a dog even when we are taking him for a walk, its a hunt.Watch how some dogs get so excited about going in the car.To them its a big hunt.Notice how some dogs if you stop and get out leaving the dog in the car,when you come back the dog has moved to the drivers or front seat, as he wants to be at the front of the hunt. The Sled dog gains drive satisfaction by pulling and moving forward.Its not really a mystery.The sled dogs were selected of course for their variation of prey drive. Lets look at a similar type of behaviour but in this case its a negative or unwanted.We have all seen a dog dragging somebody along the street on a supposed walk!!!!The Dog is jumping,lunging,pulling against the lead and the owner.What"s going on?Well the dog is on a Hunt and wants to get there and keep going.The Owner has never taught the dog to walk on a loose lead.The Dog only knows one way and thats to pull.The Dog has learnt for me to experience the hunt and get to where I want to,I must pull.The Dog is prepared to pull inorder to get what he wants. See the similarity between the above example and that of the sled dog,even though one is a negative and the other a positive. The Sled dog pulls and runs as that way he gets drive satisfaction. Tony

Ruthless, firstly this is not a go at you in any way but a reflection on many dogs I see. Somebody buys a horse off me or wants help with one and one aspect I make sure they understand is the natural being of the horse as a prey Animal.This helps them alot to understand where the horse is coming from,why he responds the way he do's and how he may respond to certain stimuli. Dog owners owe it to their dogs to explore and understand the whole being of the dog and not just superficial or basic aspects.the so called " Highly Strung Behaviour' from the dog is the Dog going into and or being in drive. Rather than see it as highly strung, see it as the greatest tool you have to train and communicate with the dog.A Dog feels whole when able to experience drive and a Dog's most receptive state for learning is when in drive. I would be utilising the Ball and drive to train your dog.I would not be surpressing drive as I have seen dogs learn its not safe to express drive around owners.What do's this cause the dog to do?It cause's the dog to get away from the owner inorder to express drive.So it cause's avoidance of the owner. I would much much sooner allow a dog to release and express drive rather than surpress it.Surpressing it is unatural for a dog and may cause unwanted or neurotic behaviour. I would not get carried away with the so called stress idea, as Dogs experience stress as part of life.Anyway its a far greater stress for a dog with a good level of drive having to surpress it. Surpression of drive has played its part in some of the dog bites we hear about. Tony

The dog is the best judge. Tony

I have not found anything better than bones. Tony

Luke, have you explored drive training? Tony

Rainy, you only got him this morning so give him time.I agree with Settlr in not putting pressure on him. The reason why he is ok with the Children is size.With Pups Squat or kneel down and then you do not look so foreboding. Tony

Paddles, have you explored Drive training? Tony

Ridge, it could be many factors coming into play here and thus it is best to get a good dog trainer to asses the dog. Has the Dog ever been attacked when younger? You can place two dogs in the same enviroment and get two different responses from the dogs, due to different nerve levels.Some dogs unfortunately have very weak nerves and a much lower threshold than other dogs. How much exposure and or socialisation did this dog get? What is your behaviour and or response when this dog shows fearful behaviour? Do you have a Pedigree? Tony

how old is the dog? Tony

Where is Rob? Working Setters has some pretty handy gundogs and is a pretty good hand with a dog. A good Gundog learns that the owner is the key to drive satisfaction. I would not say a Gundog has over the top drive.No I would say a Gundog has a good healthy functional level of drive to carry out its original purpose.The problem can be that in some cases people have only experienced dogs with poor or low level drive and so when they meet the real thing they think its over the top. The huge advantage that works for Gundogs is that people are still working them and thus evaluating drive level and this keeps the breed functional and healthy. Tony

Dogon, Roo has hit the nail on the head and given some very good advice.As Roo said you have a great tool there to use to train your dog.By the way perfectly normal behaviour and good to see a dog with drive. Tony

Good to see some commonsense emerging. Tony

MEU, jealousy is an emotion of the human world. I certainly would not be tying the dog up and massaging it while you pay attention to another dog.Chances are high of reinforcing this behaviour by massaging the dog while in that state. Tricks and sitting are really not the answer, as one has to consider where the dog is coming from. MEU, firstly I would be having a good hard look at your management and leadership of your dog.Do's this dog see you as being leader, or do's this dog see itself as leader and is protecting, owning you? Tony

Corvus,when People start attributing human emotions to dogs no wonder they do not see whats going on.Intimacy and affection are human concepts and emotions and not dogs.If dogs were weary of ntimacy then they would have to experience shame as well. Shame go's hand in hand with fear of imtimacy in Humans. Tony

Kingbob,the dog is good at home of course due to no distractions,Training should be as you have firstly with no distractions and then start to expose the dog to low level distractions working your way up to high level distractions. Have a read of the Topic in this section started by Cosmolo titled Neutralisation versus Socialisation.Pay paticular attention to all K9s Posts. Tony

Anita great to see dog's carrying out their purpose and doing it very well!!!! Tony

I too have come across many many times what Cosmolo is talking about in the Dog,Horse and Human Psychology Fields. Many factors and variables to this topic. Some feel threatened by change so will hang onto inefficient ways or methods. Some carry the fallacy that quick change is not lasting change. Some irrationally believe quick change can be harmful. Some know no better than slow and possibly inefficient ways. Some have the mindset like" Well Grandad always did it this way and so will I" Some are fearful inregard to methods they have not taken the trouble to explore,learn and understand. Some are ego driven and like to believe they have all the answers. I do not believe it is the easy way out,I believe it is the natural and smart way to go.I think some use the term easy in a derogatory manner. In a positive way yes it is the easy way and the natural way putting things to a dog in a manner that an individual dog will grasp easiest. I cannot see why you would take a long way around training a Horse or Dog if there is a more natural and easier manner!!!! If the Dog is food motivated, then food is the key for that dog and likewise is the dog is prey motivated then for him thats the natural way to go. I have seen in some case's where shonky Professionals hung onto old slow methods inorder to milk more money out of the client. Tony

Bj, by your post it is you who clearly has not grasped netrualisation by the following statement you made below. Dogs are social animals and given a choice they will chose to live with a large group of people, to only allow them contact with one, and to neutralise their feelings about all other living creatures is not understanding the basic social needs of dogs, who are not dogs, but are still living and breathing creatures. If dogs never wanted to have contact with other people, with the exception of one chosen person, then why do people even need to neutralise them to anything at all. Dogs are not specifically socailised to other people and dogs, they are just given an opportunity to meet with them on their own terms, and yet in the case of neutralisation, you actually have to go through a whole process to ensure that the dog does not see these things as positive, even though they are born believing that they are positive otherwise they would not seek them out. Anita, the neutralisation process would depend on the individual situation and type of work for example the dog was doing. Tony

Midol, you have made some good points in your posts which I agree with. Neutralisation and the Stockholme syndrome are two totally different matters and world's apart.The Stockholme Syndrome is a process that may happen in situations where a Person becomes a Hostage or is being abused by a Caregiver,other half,boyfriend so on. Neurtalisation is lowing the value a Dog has for something.This is not an abusive process like the Stockholme Syndrome and to compare the two is incorrect and humanising the Dog. Neutralisation is a handy process.We would not want to be trying to hold up a mob of wild Cattle to turn them through a Gate or something and the Dogs run off to play with another dog or to see somebody!!!Be real handy,not!!!! Tony

One would set oneself up for headaches, issuing Guarrantee's when Animals and Humans are mixed together.We will generally get more concistency from the Animal than the Human. Tony

Kelpie-I firstly I am not having a go at you but I find your statement that there are no wild dogs in Australia a little absurd.Go for a trip to the Snowy Mountains,Gippsland and lots of other area.The Dogs I refer to are not domestic dogs sneaking out out a night, then coming back before morning. These are dogs living and functioning fully in the Wild. I find the statement that Dingo's only scavenge a fairly ridiculous one.I have first hand seen Dingo's make kills. There comes a times when hearsay and theories do not hold much weight when compared to real experience. Tony

To answer the question are the wild dogs thinking only of their own Preservation?The answer is two fold.The wild dogs need the pack because of the size of prey they hunt{Not all the time but generally} such as Kangaroo's,Emu's,larger animals and unfortunately domestic stock.The Wild dog has a far greater chance of survival by being a member of the pack.Inorder though for the pack to be sucessful,all member's must co-operate with one another according to their pack rank or position. So the Wild Dog firstly has to basically function as a team player inorder to ensure his survival.The Pack comes first and then the individual dog.If the pack is not functioning effectively, then chances of a sucessful kill, drop dramatically which affects every individual dog in the pack of course. So the Dog has to firstly function as pack member to ensure his survival. The above of course applies to Wolves and so on. Tony