kelpiecuddles

We see a lot of small dogs at the beach when we go, mostly toy poodles and jack russells. They seem to enjoy a play and a swim but the beach we go to is quite flat, not much in the way of waves at all. My kelpie swims in circles like a fish, my basset will go up to her chest and stops, I'm told many bassets can swim but she certainly doesn't have the confidence.

I'm just wondering, a lot of people commented that they didn't like the publicity around it. Wondering though how much of that publicity was at the hands of the zoo and how much was as a result of the protest mill and media circus? I heard about it from a petition sent around facebook, not any publicity from the zoo. I suppose they would have to make the information available somehow that the dissection was taking place otherwise no one would have know about it but I suspect it was the media not the zoo that blew it all out of proportion.

Also are you suggesting I'm defending them? I think there is a big difference between defending someone/something and presenting facts so that people can make decisions about things for themselves based on real information rather than rumours and hype. I've said a number of times it's not a management model I support, I do believe though that people need to understand the reality of the guidelines that zoos are working within there.

Could the bitch have possibly been in labour silently without the breeder realising. I once assisted a C-section for a bitch for 4 dead puppies, vet estimated the bitch had been in labour for a couple of days already but combination of a few things including the breed(prone to looking fairly 'laboured' anyway), the breeder had missed the signs and the pups had died before the c-section was able to be conducted.

Ah yes but there is a quota that zoos over there must comply with where a certain number of their exhibits must be for conservation purposes or something to that effect. So they would be required to work within the guidelines to support the captive conservation efforts of some animals requested of them but outside of that they can breed whatever random crappola they like. The regs are weird. ETA: Couldn't remember the organisation that they are signatory to, it's EAZA, The European Association of Zoos and Aquaria.

Don't worry SG I like it too

Aww they are gorgeous photos! I'd like to try to encourage the basset club to have a display next year and would happily be involved myself, a great opportunity to dispel a lot of the myths about your breed.

I would also have been interested in the dissection although there are reports it was pretty poorly and hastily done and a bit of a hack job which is a shame.

It looks good for most dogs but I find it a little weird that they use a basset in the pic, it's pretty clear that it's doing exactly what it would do on my basset(due to their pronounced chest) and slipping to the side. Doesn't give me much confidence in the company that they can't see that it's not really suited to the dog and still use it in their ad. That style is the only style that will suit a dog with a strong prosternum like a basset, no way could we use this style

Sadly I could only imagine it would Grizz, it's hard to imagine another way they could easily manage numbers with species like that, even if they did treat some of them contraceptively they would have to breed a certain number to maintain a healthy age group within the herd and every breeding would carry a chance of males that are hard to accommodate.

from here: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/danish-zoo-kills-giraffe-feed-other-animals-1435701 Sounds like they legally could not send it to the zoo that offered the place.

Another way to look at it is that in a small genepool such as exists in zoos if a valuable place for a giraffe is taken up by an animal who is surplus to the genepool then an animal of great importance to the genepool may have to be culled due to lack of space. personally I'd rather they just used a contraceptive method but I guess these are the decisions they must make if they choose this(rather barbaric) method of management.

As I said, I don't agree with the methods just explaining that this is the generally accepted management method in Europe and it's not always simply up to the zoo and whether someone will take them and 'desex' them, they have actual laws over there relating to animals in zoos and at what age they must be euthanized if they are excess to genetic needs. To me and probably most over here it seems an odd way to manage things as we choose to use other methods such as contraception here.

I think the answer to that would probably depend a lot on your background Grizz. I'm sure the Europeans would be horrified to hear about us cutting up kangaroos to feed the animals at the wildlife park(it was roadkill) but they see them as our cute fuzzy Skippy. I'm sure bush meat would feature heavily in the diets of animals being fed in Africa, etc whereas we would not be so happy to hear about a zebra being cut up to feed the animals.

It's not that simple unfortunately. If the zoos concerned had giraffes that were also closely related then they may still not have been able to have him. I'm not sure whether that is the case here but genetic diversity in zoos is generally treated as a 'continent wide' equation, if he didn't fit that equation maybe no zoo in the area could have taken him under the laws.

This is an interesting point, in a zoo environment I have seen an animal that died of an injury cut up and fed to the other zoo animals. Personally I think in circumstances like that if the animal hasn't been contaminated with drugs that would deem it unsuitable for consumption I think this is a much better use of the meat than disposing of the animal for 'sentimental' reasons. Not sure I could encourage breeding though knowing that the animal would be used for this purpose.

I can maybe shed some light on this situation. Sadly this is the standard method of 'management' for animals excess to the genetic needs of zoos in Europe. The view in the US and here also is that management is done by contraception of animals that they don't wish to further reproduce. However, in Europe they view the act of animals breeding and raising young as being a natural part of their biology and essentially feel that their world is so artificial already that to take that opportunity away from them is reducing further what is part of their natural enrichment by raising their young. Young are allowed to be raised until the age that they would naturally separate from their parent/s and are then removed and euthanized. It's not a process I support but thought I would explain their reasoning here so that people understood why the decision had been made by the zoo. The law requires that animals excess to genetic needs are euthanized and it is possible that the options available to the giraffe may not have rectified the genetic concerns of relatedness that forced them to make the decision in the first place.

It needs to be quick and clear, no sweet talking, press his mouth the way Nekhbet explained and either a loud firm growly NO and then stand up and ignore him until he settles, once he's calmly looking at you and has settled you can play again but if he does it again, repeat. He needs to understand that if he bites that mum will growl at me and I won't get to play and it needs to happen EVERY time.

I think both, needs to be practical first and foremost. I like the idea of a nice shirt and a pair of dressy shorts for men and women and comfortable shoes, nothing ridiculous.

I agree with SG I feed my dogs in all sorts of ways, makes meal times interesting for him, but bones are a good opportunity to teach quiet time

I'm a big fan of teaching dogs to have an 'off switch' and it's even more important with working breeds living in suburbia. My dogs know that everything good happens on their inside beds, they get fed there, they get treats there and if I tell them to get on their beds they are there in about 2 seconds flat, they love their beds and it's great to be able to switch them to calm mode when I need to. I also have a little fence I put around their beds so they know they stay in that area.

If you know that time is commonly a silly time I'd get to him before he goes silly and do something with him at that time like feed him breaky(spread it around so he has to find it and it takes longer) or if he has a nice spot he is being taught to be then put him there and give him something nice to chew on like a meaty bone for breaky.

I don't get people that do stuff like that, my phone fell out of my pocket at work one day and was picked up by a customer, rather than handing it to the front desk they took it an hours drive away to Wollongong and answered the phone when I rang it trying to find it. I asked them why they hadn't just handed it in they basically said that they were worried the people that owned the business might decide to keep it for themselves

I would keep a close eye and end the training before he gets to the point of being silly, that way you are always ending on a high note and over time and with age he'll be able to concentrate longer

You can get quite nice light weight chain leashes, they aren't really much heavier than a regular leash and I don't have a problem using them unless the dog is very averse to on leash walking and you are trying to desensitise them, in which case I go for something lighter