Tansy

LOL just noticed that there are currently 2 votes for 'n/a' to the question of have you ever sold dog show prizes. Surely it is a yes or no question?

The misc 'stuff' type prizes go in a spare cupboard here. Some of it I have re-gifted to unsuspecting relatives (only if I think it is something they would like!), and every year I give some of it to my breed club for raffles or show prizes. When the cupboard is full I then have a garage sale or attend a car boot sale and sell it. Food prizes I use if it is what I feed anyway, otherwise I have given away to other exhibitors, local shelter, or if it is a decent size bag of decent food I have sold via the classifieds here. Guess I am a bit ruthless. I have some beautiful trophies that are from breed clubs that are engraved etc, and I treasure those. My first ever class in group prize was some plastic tubs, and I still use these, and are probably the most practical prize I have ever had.

If the puppy buyer has not actually signed the contract, or signed something that says they have read and understood the Ts & Cs, the breeder really doesn't have a leg to stand on. It's not sufficient to put Ts & Cs on the website, as there is no way to prove that that buyer has read these, understood and accepted the terms. Just on the murmur issue, a murmur at 6 weeks is not necessarily an indicator that there is anything wrong with the puppy, this can be a so called 'innocent murmur', which really isn't a problem. Of course, it could also be something more serious. If it was one of my puppies, I would offer the buyer to pull out of the deal, or wait it out and see if the murmur disappeared. In the meantime, I would be vet checking the puppy each week, and in my experience, if it is an innocent murmur it would be gone within a couple of weeks, in which case I would then offer the puppy for sale. Mind you, I don't take deposits (just more trouble than they are worth!), so it would just be advising the buyers that they really shouldn't feel obligated to wait and see if the murmur went.

So, there is a show I'd like to enter, but I missed the closing date. I've been sick, and the days just got away from me (not the show secs problem of course). I normally try and be good and get my entries in on time. Sometimes if I'm running a bit late I might only post the day before entries are due knowing that it may get there the next day (the day they are due), but may take two days, so getting there a day late. I figure that's not too bad, as I've heard horror stories of people trying to enter shows just a couple of days before they are on LOL. I've been on a Club committee, and I know we used to get as many as half our entries after the closing date. When do you think it is pushing your luck just a bit too much to get a late entry in?

Fabulous! Thank you.

I know there are a few pretty suit vendors on Facebook, but I never pay enough attention. Can anyone help me out with some names of suit vendors? Thanks.

As others have mentioned, Dogs NSW was closed for about 3 weeks over Xmas/NY. The only thing that would concern me is that if it was me, I would have spoken you through the situation, i.e. explained that I had submitted the registrations to Dogs NSW, was waiting on the paperwork to return, assured you I would mail the papers to you when I received them, and when you got them they would be signed over to you, what you would need to do to lodge the change of ownership etc. No need to panic at this stage, but I think I would be checking with the breeder. Not in an agressive way, maybe just send them an email update on the puppy with some pictures and at the end just ask "I was wondering if you have received the registration papers back from Dogs NSW yet?"

Details please!!

Interested in people's feedback on how they price puppies with faults. I do get that they all have 'faults', but I'm specifically talking things like incorrect bites and hernias. I have a pup in a current litter (7 weeks old) that is a popular colour/gender - I could sell pups of this colour/gender ten times over. This pup has a hernia AND is overshot. I haven't actually allocated this pup to anyone at this stage (I generally don't allocate any pups until I have chosen for myself). I also have some pups of the opposite gender and less desirable colour (not less desirable in the standard, less desirable to the puppy buying public) - good bites and no hernias. The enquiries for these pups are pretty slow. Normally, I charge a puppy price smack bang on breed average, and I normally charge the same regardless of gender/colour. My question is, should I charge less for the 'desirable' colour/gender pup because of it's faults, even though I'm sure people will pay full price for this pup, purely because of the colour/gender? Ironically, looking around at the other pups currently available in the breed, I may need to lower my price on the lovely littermates. It just seems a little wrong to charge more for a 'faulty' puppy than for the lovely littermates!

ARGH!!! Don't tell me that :D Day 17, he is pretty keen, she just goes flat on her back. She will flirt a bit with the other girls, so maybe, maybe it's STILL too early. Didn't bother with the prog test, as I thought I would just trust his instincts, now I'm kicking myself. I really want to put her to this dog (you know, one of those culminations of a couple of generations to get to this point), and he doesn't even have any sons out there as he has produced a large amount of bitch puppies (not normally something I'd be complaining about.....).

Thanks for the replies all. They have been separated when I'm not around (which isn't very often), so I'm pretty confident he hasn't managed a quickie when I wasn't watching! I've never had a girl not stand, so I really didn't feel comfortable doing a forced mating, but just thought I'd ask in case this was something I just hadn't come across before. I wasn't even bothered by how many days she was until this older breeder suggested I needed to force the mating, and it started to get me thinking I was missing her. She's only a young bitch and it's not the worst thing in the world if she did miss. He is seeming a bit keener on her today, but not crazy, wild eyed, stud dog keener, so I think there could be a couple of days yet to go. I'm crating one or both at the moment, and we will see what the next few days bring.

After some opinions on a bitch I was hoping to mate on this season. Bitch is a maiden and is on day 14, stud dog is a very experienced stud who is normally pretty good at picking their fertile periods. The dog and the bitch live together, and they haven't been separated. She is showing no signs whatsoever of wanting to be mated, or even coming close to being ready. She is not tarting with him, and not even tarting with my other bitches. He will go up to her and have a bit of a sniff, and I have caught him 'romancing' her a couple of times, but she shuts him down, and he gives up easily. I will get her prog tested, but can't do it until tomorrow (Monday), and it normally takes 48 hours to get a result (we are in a country area), so really, it is a bit useless. She'll be day 17 (Wednesday) when I get the results. I've been thinking that she is just one that is coming in late, but of course as the days tick by I'm starting to get a little more anxious. I was speaking to a long time breeder yesterday who suggested that I might need to hold the girl and force the situation. I always hold girls anyway, but more just to steady them and make sure they don't get a fright. Just wondering if anyone has come across this situation where you needed to be a bit more forceful with the mating? I've never had a girl who wasn't a tart, so it is a bit strange to me. This dog is not a fan of being collected, so I'd prefer not to have to resort to an AI.

Does the breeder show their dogs? Most 'show breeders' would have something on their website announcing their wins, mentioning their Champions etc. If some one doesn't show themselves, how are they going to pick you a 'show pup', and support you through the process. Yes, it can be very difficult, especially in popular breeds, to buy a pup on Main Register, but often those that are quick to sell pups on Main Register aren't selling pups that SHOULD be on Main Register, if you know what I mean. If you REALLY want a popular breed on Main register I would be getting out there to shows and meeting breeders local to you and getting your name out there (offer to hold dogs, lug equipment, whatever), and being prepared to wait for a lovely dog from a sucessful, local show breeder. Sometimes in a litter there isn't a single pup that is Main register quality, and normally breeders will keep the pick pup themselves, so you need to wait for their to be a decent pup for you.

I would only ever ask for the pup back in exchange for a refund if I really felt the condition was completely made up, or if it seemed in the best interest of the pup (i.e. the new owner wanted money back, but wasn't going to spend the money on the dogs health etc). My preference would always be for the puppy to stay with his new family. The flip side is if the new puppy buyers didn't want to keep the pup, then I would also take it back, refunding their money. In my current situation, if this was to occur, I would bring him home and see how the patellas were, and get him assessed by my vet. Based on my vets advise I would either get the operation, or keep him here until he is finished growing (my vet hasn't seen the pup since 8 weeks, but feels six months is too young to be racing into patella surgery, but perhaps he would change his mind once he saw the pup). Once the puppy was 'sound', either after an operation or not, I would sell the puppy with full disclosure of the condition - we have a lot of demand for older puppies/young adults. He is already desexed, and we can normally get full puppy price for a young desexed adult, but I would expect to sell him for less. From a purely financial point of view, I would likely end up more out of pocket taking the puppy back and paying for the op myself than I would by just refunding the money to the puppy buyer. I'd also be a bit sad that the home the puppy went to didn't think enough of him to want to keep him, even with his problems, but of course I can understand that the operation etc may be out of their budget.

Thanks everyone for your feedback - sounds like i am on the right track. I do really feel for the puppy owners, as I think it is a really sucky situation all round. They haven't made any demands on me, but just trying to work out what is a 'fair' thing to offer them. I have had a recommendation of another vet, who is about half way between us who would be good to get a second opinion from. Hopefully they will be willing to take the puppy there, as I can also understand that they may have reservations about taking the pup to my vet, worried he might 'side' with me (personally, I have a lot of trust in him to do the right thing for the dog, but they don't know him), but this other vet would be independent, and from what I hear, pulls no punches. As to the question of environment, the photos I have seen of the pup he is definitely not overweight, and I don't think over exercise would be an issue. When they first said he was limping I asked what floor surfaces they had and they said polished floors. I asked them to put rugs down etc so he wasn't slipping on the boards, but they said they didn't think it was an issue. That did annoy me a bit, but really, if his patellas are as bad as is being made out, I don't think it can just be the floors, just likely they have aggravated the situation. It is not an 'uncommon' problem in the breed, but not one I have had to deal with before. I have had one dog that I bought in from some one else that had quite loose patellas (could be manually manipulated in and out), but didn't require surgery, and I had him desexed. In the distant past I know I have on at least one occassion let my heart rule my head and done a mating that the conformation of the dogs was not as sound as it should have been. Of course, never had an issue with any of the pups from that mating, and now when I put much more focus on soundness I do!

Don't stress - all records are maintained by the NSW Dept of Local Government - your local council is just the mechanism for entering/updating the records. If you had dropped paperwork off that day and it was still sitting in some one's 'in tray' there could be a problem, but anything already on the system wouldn't be impacted. You can go to any NSW council to make changes to your records. I used to find it hard to get to my council to deal with registrations, so went to the Council where my workplace was.

Posting here to get the opinions of both breeders and puppy buyers. I bred a litter earlier this year where the focus was on soundness – the health testing on both the sire and dam exceeds that recommended for the breed. So, of course, Murphys Law, I have had a health issue pop up that I haven’t had before. One of my puppies went to a home about five hours away. He is now six months old and has been diagnosed with bilateral luxating patellas. He was recently desexed and was xrayed at the time, and the patellas are ‘very bad’ (I was previously told grade 3, not sure what they currently believe them to be graded as). Initially there were no problems with the puppy when he went home. They were first time dog owners, so lots of contact in the first weeks (reassuring them about toilet training etc). There was no mention of any issues until he went for his second vet visit (first was a vet check when he first went home, and then second was routine vacc), and they diagnosed luxating patellas at that time. Since then the updates have been about how the puppy is limping etc. Both sire and dam have excellent patellas. There is no history in the dam’s line of patella issues, and the stud dog owner (some one I know and trust) assures me there are no issues in the stud’s line, and he hasn’t produced any patella issues previously. I have a written statement from the stud dog owners vet regarding his patellas. One pup was sold locally and I retained one, and I have taken these two to my own vet, and he says their patellas are good and strong, and he also rechecked the dam. He also examined the pups before they left, and didn’t find any issues with the pup at the time. He has offered to talk to either the new owners or their vet, and I have given them his phone number, but I don’t believe they have called him. I have contacted the others in the litter, and no issues have come to light with the other pups. I don’t feel I could have done much more to prevent this from occurring, and I guess sometimes things just happen. The flip side is though, these puppy buyers did all the right things (researching the breed, waited for the right pup etc), and it is hardly fair that they are left with a huge vet bill (they have been quoted $3,000 to repair both legs – have been told they need to have the operation done by a Specialist). Ideally I would like my own vet see the dog for a second opinion, but they are a 10 hour round trip away, so I doubt they will want to bring him to me. I have no issue with refunding the purchase price of the puppy (around a third of the quote for the operation). I mean, the $$ will hurt, and I will probably need to sell the pup I kept for myself to fund this, which sort of defeats the whole purpose of this litter, but I feel it's probably the fair thing to do. Realistically though I can’t afford to fund the operation, especially if they chose to have it done by a Specialist. Without seeing the dog my own vet gave me a rough quote of about half the cost. He is not a Specialist, but I know he has done the operation with good outcomes in the past. So, my question to breeders is – what do you believe your obligations are in this situation? And, my question to puppy buyers is – what do you believe is fair and appropriate support from a breeder in this situation? For puppy buyers who have been in this situation, what support did you get from the breeder?

Another good option is a housesitter - that way the dog remains in his normal environment. Just depends if you can find some one to housesit. Otherwise I would vote for the breeder, assuming the breeder keeps their dogs in a similar manner to how you keep your dog - for example, do they keep their dogs inside or in runs. We have several that come back on a regular basis. They typically break the hearts of their families by running off to play with the other dogs and don't even notice their families leaving LOL, but they are always pleased to see their families come back, and happily go home. I have super strong fencing, so their owners know they can't get out. As to costs, I do charge, probably about half of what a good boarding kennel would cost. I pay all their costs when they are with me (food, tick prevention if necessary etc), and if they needed any veterinary treatment, say they hurt themselves when in my care, I would expect to pay that as well, so what I charge covers these costs. When they are here they are treated just like my dogs, and are inside with everyone else, and they are fed premium food, and are bathed and groomed. One sleeps in our bedroom when he visits, as I can't get him to settle otherwise.

I think you will find there are plenty more Aussie Shep breeders in NSW. The list you probably received from Dogs NSW is just those breeders who choose to advertise with Dogs NSW. In my breed, the breeders who pay to advertise with Dogs NSW is a pretty small percentage of all the breeders overall. When I get asked for recommendations in other breeds I tend to refer people to Dogzonline breeder listings and/or the breed club for that particular breed. Of course, where ever you find a breeder you need to do your homework on what health testing is important for that breed, and check you are happy with the way the pups are brought up etc.

Do you have a breeder or dog profile listing here on Dogzonline? I use a different address for Dogzonline than my 'regular' email address, and this scam email went to the Dogzonline one. So, I think they have gone through and collected email addresses that way. I thought 'next day delivery' guarantee to Aust was pretty impressive LOL.

No, it is not done a lot. It is not uncommon for a sire and a dam to share some common ancestors, however, this close a mating is extremely uncommon. Occassionally in the past these types of matings have been done by extremely experienced breeders who understand the 'lines' behind these dogs and who are striving for a particular outcome, and often where the gene pool is very small (not the case with the SBT). Clearly, this person is not an experienced breeder, and I would struggle to understand why it would be necessary to undertake such a risky mating (the closer the mating the higher the risk of getting some nasty recessive condition come through) in a breed like the SBT where the gene pool is quite large. Most breeders strive to put their bitches to the best dog for that bitch, and often that dog is owned by some one else. In this instance I really feel that this person wants to use the father over the daughter just because that's what they have in their yard.

It seems to me that she has bought a male and female with the intent of breeding them, and hasn't put much thought into this. Even if she agreed to now microchip the pup it would bother me that she is not aware of her legal obligations to microchip in NSW. If she was developing a breeding plan with an experienced mentor in the breed they would have taught her this. Have the puppies been vaccinated? A vet in NSW would know that puppies need to be microchipped prior to sale, so they would have been pushing for microchipping when they vaccinated. It wouldn't bother me if some one hadn't had a prefix very long (everyone has to start some where), but frankly there is plenty of time to organise a prefix before the puppies are on the ground. It just sounds to me like it was a case of whacking two dogs together to produce a litter - not very well thought out.

By the way, if you are thinking of advertising, don't respond straight away. My breed has already been covered, as it got closer to the cut off date they kept sending additional emails with special reduced pricing. So, those who took up the offer intitially would have paid more than those who took up the second or third offer!

If the show is not until mid August, in all likelihood the Show Sec will keep entries open until at least the end of this month. Not that sending in late entries is a good habit to get into of course!

Why is the opinion of the people commenting on the pup now worth more than the opinion of the people who commented before she bought the pup? Unless the puppy has a disqualifying fault (for example, unaccepted colour or undescended testicle in a male), then what is 'show quality' is really quite subjective. This topic reminded me to check the mouth of a girl I have here who is 15 months old - her mouth wasn't correct 2 months ago, but lo and behold, it is now. Not impossible for teeth to change up to 2yo in my breed. I does depend on the headshape and quite how 'wrong' the bite is, but ours can go from reverse scissor to level to scissor. By the way, I know some breeds take bite extremely seriously, but even if it is incorrect, it is only one aspect of the dog. As others have said, a lovely baby does not necessarily make a lovely adult. We often joke if a baby has a sucessful Baby Puppy career, "well, that one won't make it". LOL If your friend has trust in the breeder I would be asking their honest opinion, but without getting their back up. The breeder might be able to see the potential that others are missing, or might even suggest leaving the baby at home to mature a bit more. Also, genetics aren't the only thing that makes a good dog - dn't forget diet, exercise, training and socialisation.