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Wow Dogbesotted, that is really interesting... My vet told me that there is absolutely no possibility of overdosing on vitamin K1, but that WAS the day I noticed the problem and I guess his reasoning was "overdose possibility" compared to "rat bait poisoning" I will bring it up with him on Thursday... I have an appointment with Frances' leading canine behavioural specialist on Saturday (for a totally unrelated issue) who, by chance is a renowned canine dermatologist also. She rang me yesterday to confirm our appointment and I told her of the problem we have here. She asked me to take the blood results with me so she can establish whether is may "simply" be a skin related problem as my girl is showing no other signs of illness at all...

All of that is pretty much wonderful news Here's hoping the Thyroid gets back into shape soon. Big hugs to you both and keep that good new coming

Too late... I went and did the shopping yesterday and, seeing the fridge was full, (and that it is winter here, kitchen is at 14°C), I left the doezn eggs out on the bench. I went out to dinner last night... Yep, you guessed it, a dozen squished half eaten eggs greeted me on my return and that really stinks The buggers had pulled the lot onto the floor and had proceded in sharing them amongst themselves... There was shell stuck to the floor with dried egg white that had to be soaked to get up. All that on a full stomach. I found one untouched egg under the kitchen counter that that had obviously rolled there and "escaped" the masacre I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall PS : they usually get an egg each per week, they now won't be getting any until April ! I'm glad that shells are not considered as being dangerous though !

Dogbesotted, I recieved your precious PM and are printing some of the info off for my vet. They don't seem to have much comprehensive info here. Thank you so much for taking the time to corrolate the info and give your expertise AGAIN. My dog is not on any other medication so it would appear that IMT can be ruled out Yes Erny, we have just got back from the vets. We have taken blood and we will have the results on Thursday. My vet is really stumped and needless to say, quite worried because whereby dogs showing external bruising as she is, normally show other symptoms too such as lethargia, anaemia, refusal to eat, blood in urine and stools and quite often, nose bleeds, my girl is showing NO OTHER SYMPTOM WHATSOEVER and even the rather big cut on her foot is not bleeding more than any cut on any "normal" dog. It is really weird and totally illogical. If her blood wasn't coagulating correctly, the cut on her foot would bleed profusely and without ceasing, whereby it only weeps when she runs on it. My vet only asked for 2 x 2 seperate tests to be done on the blood drawn today, the problem is that there are over seventeen different possible "problems" related to the immune system and to the supression of platelets which indirectly causes the bruising, that can be tested for and any combination of these seventeen elements can cause the bruising she is showing... We obviously can't test for the indefinate number of things it may or may not be . (please excuse my very simplistic explanations, I don't know enough about this to give any detailed info. Anyway, depending on the results, we may have to undertake a marrow test which would mean taking cells out of her bone marrow under a general anaesthetic. The poor sweetie. I guess if we take the marrow, we will be testing for the "C" word The vet is now wondering if she was in fact poisoned by rat bait because logically, if she didn't die in the first week, the symptoms should have gone by now. Thank you all again for your concern. Anyway, enough ramble for now, I'll post again soon.

Me AGAIN OK, it finally got the better of me when, laying in the sun, I noticed that my girl has horrible purple bruising all around her anus, (maybe due to straining ), anyway, I rang the vet. I spoke to Dr Barbet last week who wanted to see her at the end of this week if there was no improvement, but his associate vet who works alone on Mondays, thinks it would be better if I bought her in tomorrow when they are both there, for specific blood tests. I also have to take the boxer in so his blood can be used as a "control"... It is becoming very complicated now that we know the standard medication is not working efficiently and I've PM'd Dogbesotted for her help following her suggestion at the possibility of it being Thrombocytopenia... This illness in itself is so vast, I don't really know where to begin I'll know more in the next few days and I'll keep you updated

Hi there, me again... I had a bit of a scare yesterday I took my girl out to the forest (on her own so as not to "over do it"), and she had a bit of a play and then we walked back home. I then took my other two monsters out for a run in the forest, leaving the little girl alone at home with the cats as per usual. Generally she sits behind the door and waits for our return so when I opened the door and saw a pool of blood... Panic... Well, she came running over, as happy as Larry, with a bit of blood here and there on her coat, but not distressed in any way . I first wondered if shed killed one of the cats ( ) so I bolted up stairs to find bloody paw prints all over the house but the 2 cats sleeping peacefully in their beds. *phew* The whole house smelt that tinny blood smell. yuck ! It turns out she'd simply sliced her paw pad open whilst I was out but that it had bled profusely, proving to me that her blood is still not clotting like it should be and that 20+ days after starting treatment for the bloody rat bait, things are still pretty much the same It is quite worrying and if there is no improvement by Thursday, I'll be off to the vets for tests. I'd have never thought that this could drag along for so long considering the massive quantities of cagulating vitamin K1 shes on. Apart from the bruising and the bleeding, she is her usual boistrous self, unbelievable really.

Have you had any news Erny from the holistic vets ?... Any suggestions from them or appointments taken at this stage ?... What is the next step for you ?

:rolleyes: that is wonderful news Jodi Did you have some more xrays done whilst he was under the anaesthetic ? Enjoy the roast chook, both of you ;)

I don't need to use rat bait at home, I have three oversized "ratters" and 2 cats The rat stuff my girl ate was in the basement at work and as far as I can ascertain, it must have been a minute quantity that she swallowed Thanks for popping in Kayel

Nothing new to report today, still bruising but otherwise fine... Thanks guys for following up

Oh Jodi, I'm both sad and at the same time, glad for you... It is wonderful news that his blood tests are good. Bad news that he has another lump, but good news the "biopsy" hasn't come back blatently positive... Have you already had lung xrays done or is it on the list next visit ?... Enough pawsitive vibes coming your way to knock anything nasty off in a flash Desperately hoping that all is "well" with the next set of tests. Chin up sweetheart

Hi there Thanks for following up guys, I'd somewhat let the thread drop away so as not to bore you all No seriously, I thought she was coming along fine although the last 24 hours have been a bit rocky. The night before last, when she moved in her armchair, she wimpered once or twice... Very worried I got up to see what was wrong but she showed no apparent distress so we all went back to bed. She was a bit "flat" yesterday but her temperature was OK and she only had 2 new bruises, one on her eye and one where she'd scratched herself under the throat. I took her for a walk / run, and she seemed fine so when we got in, I gave her a marrow bone, making sure that there was no way she could splinter it to avoid any internal haemoraging... She hasn't had any type of bone since she's been ill, so she really "went to town" on it, licking away for hours and trying to break it up. The dogs also had a big play fight but I kept a close eye on them to make sure the girls didn't go overboard... This morning, her gums were a bit pale and had red flicks EVERYWHERE when I opened her mouth, her tongue was specked with black ! I checked her all over and found another new bruise on her rear end, three on her belly, one on her elbow, and several on the head :nahnah: Panick stations so I called the vet. He confirmed that the black specks on the tongue were just bruises and nothing else (I was imagining the worst things ), probably due to licking the bone to death. The bright red spots on the gums were also a form of bruising due to chewing said bone but he didn't like the idea that she had pale mucouses. He reminded me that he expected her recovery to be long but I could tell he is worried. He asked me to extend her treatment for an extra 5 days over and above the 5 days treatment that I already have (ten more days in total) and if she's still bruising I have to take her in for tests I'm beginning to worry that maybe Dogsbesotted suggestion of thrombocytopenia is a possibility and I am currently looking more closely at the illness. Anyway, I'll try not to jump the guns. It has now been a full month since she ingested the bloody rotton stuff and it is still making her ill. I can just imagine what would have been the outcome had I not given her the massive doses of vitamin K for coagulating the blood and thus contering the rat bait *anti-coagulant* I will keep you posted because much to my dismay, it is not over yet

Oh Karma I'm so sorry... At lunch time yesterday you had us hoping that your vet had made a wrong diagnosis and unfortunately when I checked in again now, it seems he was right... The news is dreadful and I can imagine the heartbreak you are going through. Try and keep your chin up, when you go out, take her with you as often as you can and make your last months together as wonderful as possible.

I hope Murry is feeling better this morning... If he is a bit better (not waranting a visit to the vet) but still not right, I've used a human gut "plaster" here in France called "Smecta" for my boxer that has suffered tummy upsets in the past... It is vile, floury stuff that I get down his throat with a horse worming seringe. There must be an equivalent in Oz that you could get at a chemist shop ?... It will coat his tummy and ease the spasms until he cleans himself out.

Amongst others, "Holly" is a wealth of info. on holistic treatments, she has given many valuable suggestions on alternative treatments and suggestion on vet choice on the thread stared by Jodi (Staffyluv) on her beloved Olliedog... Below link... Maybe you could PM her ?... http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...1&st=&p=entry

Dogsbesotted, you are really a mine of valuable information... I will be Googling thrombocytopenia for future reference...

Damn it Erny Unfortunately its going to be *wait and see* until you get the the tests done. Thinking of you hon

I was meaning those frightened by the content of this thread, as above... That is all :D

I'm sorry if I'm just spitting out "old news" but here in Europe (and I understand all over the planet) vets are very seriously considering that we may be OVER VACCINATING our pets and should only be giving boosters every second year... Many even suggest this to be a reason for unpredictable behaviour in pets too, though I'm not too sure about that debate... I personally got onto the topic whilst preparing my dogs for import into Australia... Anyway, my dogs have been vaccinated yearly for distemper, infectious hepatitis, parvo, bordatella bronchiseptica, Leptospira interrogans AND Rabies all in one hit... This time I had to add Kennel Cough to the list too ;) I have never had any negative reactions. HOWEVER, when I went to have their booster injections (obligatory for import)once the standard 12 months had expired the vet decided to draw blood for the Rabies antibody test BERFORE vaccination... He promised me that despite not being vaccinated for a year, their antibodies would be "larglely sufficient" to pass the acceptance level set by Aust. quarantine... Well, all dogs had at least 3 times the minimum amount of antibodies WITHOUT even being re-vaccinated. :D When I enquired about this my vet simply confirmed that he personnally vaccinates his pets every 30 months but that he vaccinates clients' pets at the request of the client because that is what they expect... My vet is NOT a money monger and will not vaccinate just to get cash in the till, but as he said, it is written in every magazine, every booklet, every vet clinique that one should vaccinate their pets annually... To put a dog in a kennel for the holidays, to take him over the border or for him to simply be enrolled in training, tha annual vaccinations are OBLIGATORY ! People think they are doing the right thing and will keep doing so until the science books are re-written. :D For those above who are considering not vaccinating at all, please think again... Maybe just do it less often or insist on a less "violent" vaccination... Maybe those concerned could ask for seperate vaccination injections spread out over several months to avoid a vaccination "shock" ?... I am not a vet but I believe vaccination is still VERY important !...

Ok, she is still fine and despite yesterdays bruising should be out of the woods :D I was frightened of "jinxing" her but she is as tough as old Nick and I think I can safely say she will make it ... Caff, it seems that baits are the same around the world and that there are 2 types... The fast acting 24hour one (pain, convulsions, haemoraging etc.) which the rats suss out really quickly and subsequently stop eating. Then there is the long action one which is what my girl ate. In France we almost exclusively use the latter as the rats are now a wake-up to the 24hour version... Both are deadly in their own way... I also read on another thread weeks back, converging opinions on dogs & cats playing with or eating infected rodents. Most on the thread said it was very dangerous for dogs and cats to eat / play with dying/dead rats & mice that have been poisoned BUT a couple of people in "in the know" (supported by my vet) confirm that being poisoned by ingesting an already poisoned animal is not usually lethal to dogs nor to cats... It seems the poison is broken down by the animal that directly ingests it, making the poison ineffective on anyone else along the "food-chain" (otherwise we'd be indirectly poisoning all our fauna)... After what I've just been through, I wouldn't wan't to try first hand, but apparently they'd have to eat tonnes of poisoned rodents to be in turn poisoned themselves. Just be careful the rats don't drag any poison into your "jungle" :D

Erny, whilst you were answering I edited my post to add some stuff... Have a stickybeak just in case :D "Peddling in the couscous" simply means putting a heap of energy into not getting very far despite the effort... :D

I imagine you've already googled what both of these conditions may be, or may cause so AGIAN I can't add anything helpful... Did you find this link ?... http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/dadrenalgland.html Also, when "googling" many articles point out that enlarged adrenal glands can point to Addisons or Cushings which also show similar symptomes to diabetes... I don't recall you speaking about diabetes in the thread (and don't have the time right now to read through again :D )... Have you checked her for diabetes ?... (I guess that was ruled out with the first blood tests :D ) Anyway, follow your *gut feeling*... If you feel it will turn out OK, it will ;) Maybe now you will be able to aim all that energy into getting her "right" instead of "peddling in the couscous" as the quaint french expression goes...

Great news Lilypily :D

I hope things went well at the vets, fingers crossed that it is nothing nasty...

Oh dear, I don't know what to say This thread has been so heartwrenching for every single one of us who has posted here for deep down, we all know that one day, we too will have to face the same hollow pain that you have been going through over the last weeks, for each and every one of our loved companions that will unfortunately grow old before us... Thank you for sharing your doubts and thoughts with us and I for one will remember your courage in the face of Jenna's decline and the kind support and suggestions of people here on this forum when it is time to accompany one of mine to the bridge. Bigs hugs to you MSJ and to Joey who must be feeling pretty miserable too :rolleyes: