Prydenjoy

Timing, understanding and patience

Your post has brought a big smile to my face, it's great to hear people talking about their dogs with pride and joy. I'm glad you are having fun with the clicker and it sounds like you have the makings of a good trainer, not afraid to hold back on giving a well earned reward, not pushing your dog past her threshold. Good on you, really

Don't be concerned, chances are you'll be with a very capable trainer and you'll learn heaps. There may be a couple of not so good ones out there, but there are also many wonderful Delta trainers, and at the end of the day, you're not going to "ruin" your dog by using their methods, even if you do find yourself with a not so good trainer. Their methods are kind and gentle and will help build a better relationship with your dog

Well then you are right, there is no point even trying to discuss the issues. Who is in denial? Certainly not me, I never denied that anyone had issues with certain trainer. If you didn't miss the bit where I acknowledged that people had had issues with certain trainers then what on earth are you on about?? Black Bronsen, that is also where further knowledge comes is. Regardless of qualification I'd expect keen dog trainers to be attending seminars and reading books and gaining practical experience to further their knowledge. If the only thing someone has ever done with a dog is complete one course then I'm sorry, I don't want them anywhere near my dog, I don't care what course they did. I agree with the methods Delta use, I just don't agree with the application some have claimed the trainers to be using. The experiences I've had with Delta trainers have all been great, so some of them must be coming away from the course with some great things. Having studied at uni I can speak to others who have passed particular units, some demonstate an incredible knowledge of the subject, others only just know what they need to pass the unit. Perhaps this is the difference between a good (qualified) trainer, and a not so good one?

Before or during a season? We have a show to be at in 2 weeks, will it be safe to bring her? I was also going to bring her to a flyball workshop with Berri this weekend. Are there other things I should look out for with a UTI?

Mango will be 6 months in just under 2 weeks. Normally when we walk she pees once at the beginning of the walk, and that is all. Today she peed about every 5 metres the whole way. Is this a sign she'll be in season soon?

JB I think you missed the bit where I said I'm sorry to hear that they are not all as wonderful as the ones I've dealt with - Nobody is denying that there aren't any bad Delta trainers, just that they aren't all that bad. If you had a bad experience with a doctor would you find out what med school they went to and tell everyone you meet not to go to any doctors that graduated there because they are all bad? I hardly think so. If we were all the same there wouldn't be any bad trainers, nor any brilliant trainers, we'd all be somewhere in the middle. I'm sure you'll find bad trainers and brilliant trainers from all kinds of training background.

I agree Cosmolo, I would expect that someone, regardless of qualification, would refer on if needs be. Making generalised blanket statements which are most likely not even true (I'll believe it if BB can show me a long list of Delta trainers that wont take a dog because it belongs to a particular group of dogs) is all I have an issue with. I've known some amazing Delta trainers, and I'm sorry to hear that they are not all as wonderful as the ones I've dealt with, but you can't put them all into one box. I've heard some pretty dumb things come out of some NDTF trainers mouths, that isn't to say that they are all incompetent. I've no doubt that there are good ones out there, but lets not lump them all together and give them all a bad rap, eh? It works both ways.

You say many, can you prove it, or are you just making things up? Sounds like a porky to me... I really don't get this whole "lets bash every Delta trainer because I've had a bad experience with one" thing, seems pretty immature to me. It's not hard to comprehend that different people under the same training will have different abilities, you can't judge everyone based on what 3 or 4 have apparently done

Thanks Luvsablue, yes I think that is pretty much what we did

Have fun! One thing you can also do is throw the food on the ground and say "get it" after you've clicked a behavior (gets the dog moving around a bit more, as well as keeping them on the ball because they keep having to "find" the food rather than you just stuffing it in its mouth). This works better with some "tricks" more than others, if you're after a specific position it's good to reward in position. I played this game with Mango's entire breakfast yesterday, getting her to come in and do a hand touch, clicking, saying "get it" (later I will teach her that if I don't say get it she is to leave the food) and tossing the food away. She got really fast, running back and forwards to do a hand touch, then to grab the food. Just a bit of fun, and a really easy "beginners" game to play (she's only a pup).

I know other Delta trainers that would be in the same boat, whatever piece of paper you take home at the end of the day further reading and life experience can make a huge difference to your training ability also. It's one thing to bring home a piece of paper, but to stay committed to life long learning is another thing altogether. There's a lot of information out there, I guess some people just choose not to look any further than what they have learnt (or failed to learn) in the course they chose to take.

Wish I'd seen that footwork diagram earlier! My footwork has been pretty much all over the place, I kind of do a u-ie around Berri for the left about turns, but I just did a bit of practice with the turns in the diagram and then asked Berri to join me, in the left abouts he just scooted around and popped himself right in position like he'd been doing it all his life - I'll know for next time now! Really wish I'd taken an extra 2 steps before standing him at the stand for exam today, I stopped him right in front of a smell on the ground and instead of stopping he kept walking to sniff it. We would have passed with a score of 92 otherwise! Ah well there is always next time...

Agreed. I read her book, it was very interesting. I have a lot of respect for what the lady has to say ;)

This is my favorite bit Yes, remember - the click is a marker, not a cue. Now that you've got the clicker I'd stick with using it, they are lots of fun and great for rainy days. If you want something to work from you can pick and choose what you like from here http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20dogs/%20dog1/levels.html She's got good explainations on how to train each thing, once you've worked through it a bit and understand how it all works you'll be able to train anything you like from scratch. You may even become hooked

Bother our lack of training with distractions, really. We've been to training once this year (got started on agility instead) so haven't practiced at all with distractions. It's amazing he got a qualifying score at all, let alone 2nd place! Our only practice with the figure 8 was around pillows on the lounge room floor, yet that was his strongest point

I guess at the end of the day it comes down to consumer awareness, the public need to know that they may not be getting what they are paying for. Perhaps another 7:30 report story? I don't agree that we should all be bound to complete one qualification, there does need to be some variety of treatment methods. Everyone seems to agree that each and every dog is different, providing this variety gives dog owners some choice of what to choose from.

Have you read the article lilli, I'm curious?

I'm stoked... And I think maybe a little bit hooked?? Can't wait to do a bit more obedience with Mango and get her into the trials too! She's only 5 months old but LOVES to heel and picks new things up really quickly. I was worried he'd fall apart, but the judge this morning was laughing because he just got better and better, from not paying attention in the beginning to a perfect figure 8 once he'd warmed himself up.

I'll send Berri express post on Monday

Well it did work against us being first this morning, I didn't "know" how to warm him up (whether you could use treats outside the ring etc) so we didn't warm up and he missed out by 2 points on qualifying in the heeling (there were cows in the next paddock he was watching). BUT he scored 86 this afternoon and came 2ND PLACE!!! So, very proud mummy here to say the least

That's fair enough haven, I wanted nationally accredited also but when I found out about this course I figured I can still do what I'm doing without a nationally accreditted course, so I'd rather go with the one that appeals to me more One question, what kind of jobs can you do with a nationally accredited course that you can't get into some way or another with another course? I know when I was looking up customs jobs etc it said that the NDTF course would help, but you can still get in without it (and if I was the person checking the resumes having another course would look good on there also).

OK, so a dog that is lunging and yapping its head off and deficates on itself when made to "face it's fears" (I hate to admit it, but before I came back in touch with my positive roots I did try to "correct" Berri's behavior, and this is what happened - Got me back to training positive in no time and I'm still kicking myself putting him through this), ears back, tail down (not between his legs, down toward the ground), would just be a plain aggression issue and warrent leash corrections to teach the dog that you call the shots, not it? I have to strongly disagree with you on this one, yes I deal with the problem as it stands but think it a much better option to "err on the side of caution" and remain positive with the dog, because you're right, you never do know what is going through its head and what seems a "friendly" lunge may even be a dog protecting its space because of an underlying fear.

I think you've misunderstood me, I never said that stress is the be all and end all, it is probably a tiny tiny tiny factor, but not one that should be discounted altogether. Yes, genes play a massive role (I've studied genetics at uni, I do understand their power) but I also believe that life experiences play a role and that what a dog learns to expect, it comes to expect, to an extent (hence all the literature that states that social heirachy is fluid). A dog may become dominant in a house or pack because the other members allow it to be. I think the problem comes in with your definition vs my definition. I believe dominance describes a relationship (as I've read, I didn't just make that bit up), you seem to believe that dominance describes a dog that wants everything its way, all the time. In my definition that would be an unstable dog in need of a visit from a very good behavioralist

I've had dogs on a chain before, they knew when the chain was off they could run off - The fact that they'd "corrected" themselves by running towards the end of the chain in the past didn't stop them running off when the chain was off because the consequence was directly related to them having that chain on. I imagine it would be much the same with the long lead, the dog realised that the line is what is CAUSING the correction, lead off = dog safe (and that is proven to the dog when it tries to run off and there is nothing to stop it). However, with consistent training, just using the lead as a back up, with plenty of reinforcement after every recall, the dog will learn that coming is in its own best interests, so when the lead is eventually taken off the dog sticks with the same habits that were reinforced when it was on.