Prydenjoy

Is there any reason for Great Danes in particular, to have a low protein diet throughout their life? What is a good protein level then? Is the protein in Eagle Pack Large Breed Puppy Formula a good level? KitKat, I agree with you - even with my Boxer I am ever so cautious that he is getting the proper nutrition. The reason I go with Eagle Pack (as an extra to his BARF diet) is because they've done their own extensive research on large and giant breeds, studies done on other foods still show Great Danes to develop a lot of problems if fed puppy foods, which is why Eagle Packs formulas are based on their own, seperate research. Cordelia, he doesn't get exercised too much and is very lanky. She has tried all sorts of supplements etc but he is not going to put on weight unless the actual food he is eating is nutrient dense enough, the Bonnie obviously isn't working. I'd love to see him healthy and fat enough that she will begin showing him again, at the moment he is just too skinny to be shown. I just can't convince her to put him on a different food.

Thanks for the info, but now I'm confused... Firstly, she said adult dry foods have too much protein for pups, I thought it was the calcium/phosphurus ratio (like Steve mentioned) that was different in adult foods. I know a lot of people say to feed pups on adult dog foods, does that still stand or have opinions changed on this? She's switching the pups to BARF, so thats great, however the Dane is still on dry food, Bonnie Working Formula I believe, he is 15 months old. He just wont keep the weight on, and like I said, he has that muscle/nervous system problem (whatever it is). What steve was saying about the digestability of protein, I would imagine the protein source in this would be not very digestable, and also low (otherwise she wouldn't be feeding it) - could this extremely low protein diet be the reason he doesn't put on weight? What problems would a higher protien diet possibly give him? Is there any evidence to say that a dog with his problems should be getting more protein/fat and less grains?

My friend has a few dogs, two of them are 6 month old pups. She is always saying stuff about too much protein, as if any protein is too much, apparently all the high quality foods have too much protien so the dogs get Bonnie puppy. She also has a Dane that wont put on weight, I suggested Eagle Pack (works for my dogs) but apparently it has FAR too much protein for Danes. I know that too much protein can cause problems, but what about not enough protein? The Dane also has something wrong with it, no one knows what, but he shakes all the time - I'm thinking possibly muscle degeneration from NOT ENOUGH protein?

Thats the first thought that sprung to my mind too. We really need to know what sort of cough it is, its hard to guess otherwise.

Gareth, for your information I was not taking the thread off track - I will answer directly to questions below and hopefully you will see this. Yes, my friends dog has, it is still not well. The first vet said it is not kennel cough (which is what your vet has said), and prescribed antibiotics. The dog kept coughing so was taken to another vet who said it was a strain of kennel cough and the antibiotics wouldn't fix it. Different vets will pick up on different things, in this case the first vet didn't pick up on what it actually was. Extending on that question (not taking the topic off track):

Well I only asked because it was related - the same questions could apply to Pablos dog, quite possibly Pablos dog has a strain of kennel cough, but not actual kennel cough itself. That would explain why the antibiotics didn't work - kennel cough has a viral and a bacterial component and antibiotics only attack the bacterial component after which the dog continues to cough. Does the dog have flemy sound in its chest? Is it a mucusy, or a dry cough?

Sorry I can't be of any help, but I do have a related question. If a young pup gets kennel cough, will is lungs be permenantly weakend or will they repair themselves as the dog is still young? Will the dogs growth be stunted due to its immune system putting all of its effort into mending the body? And how long does the cough normally persist for?

Either Poodle is very young/stupid and doesn't realise that we were trying to help, or she is just trying to start an arguement, either way, ignore her - she asked a question, we gave her an honest, straight foward answer "end of bloody story" - right? Poodle - there there honey, just because you didn't get the answer you were looking for is no reason to get all upset

Little Pixie, will do In comparison to the Science Diet and Eukanuba it fares pretty well - hopefully it will last them ages. I figured I'd click the button to spend the money, and I'd think about it later! I just wont tell Josh what I've done... we're supposed to be saving for a car Kez, the puppy formula has had its own research done on it, I know its all just advertising but it says it is different from the other growth formulas and is designed to prevent all the associated problems from occuring. I'm using the power formula because I want something nutrient dense to put weight on him - technically he is not a racing dog, but the way he runs he might as well be, he goes a bit nuts chasing rabbits. Also, the power formula is for show dogs, which he is, so I figured it is probably the best one to put him on.

Thanks Little Pixie, guess I'll have to go and spend another $100 then

Thanks Nadia, I'm just going to use a cup or so of Eagle Pack Performance in the mornings until he is looking better, then I'll switch the frames that he is getting to wings, and make more of an effort to get lamb flaps (almost impossible to come by decent ones these days!). One question for the dry food experts - is it ok to feed a Boxer pup (12 weeks old atm) on Power Formula rather than a Large Breed Puppy formula as part of their diet? Would the latter be better?

Thanks for the link Chuckie. I am ordering a bag of performance Eagle Pack now. I have been trying to get Eagle Pack for god knows how long, but without any success! My dogs are BARF fed, but my Whippet is too skinny and needs some weight on him, and my Boxer pup seems to maintain more weight when he is fed some dry as well, so I believe the performance variety would probably do my two good as a small portion of their diet!

Apply topically undiluted, and internally (diluted) for ringworm. Most effective thing I've ever used!

Oh poor Dakota, I never even noticed that she had a shaved neck! The poor girl, good luck in finding a better vet - I use the one in Uralla now (closer), the lady vet is very friendly and very gentle, and has taken very good care of Lilian over the past few weeks. If you're not happy with any of the others you could try there Agenbear, I think she was talking about drawing blood, not actual shots - I think all shots are given in the neck. Have you tried kelp? Does anyone else know of anything to add to increase thyroid or fat metabolism? The problem with any dry food is that they contain grains, which = carbs, which dogs do not digest very well.

Oh Jacquie, I really hope aatainc is right. It is exeptionally hard when they start looking up, only to have another down fall. Lilian is looking up now, and we're playing the waiting game to see when she crashes again, oh how I hate the waiting game. So I feel your pain, poor Molly, I hope she picks up again. Don't make your judgments by weight, go by quality of life - if she is picking up and eating, even if she is losing weight, she is probably feeling better. You will know when it is time, you will look into her eyes one day and they will tell you. Stay strong girl, you need to be, for Molly

Its amazing how energy efficient some dogs are. Tessa (cattle dog x) gets the same amount of food as Montie (tiny Papillon) every day, plus she fasts once or twice a week. It can make it hard though when there are glucose problems as well. I would agree with others here to make up for that with veggies.

Abz, not all types of meat carries Neospora, so you don't have to cook all meat to prevent it. Also, you would be much better off mixing the meat with raw pureed veggies than with pasta, dogs do not naturally digest grains and they do nothing for them, you would be doing your dog a huge favour by not adding them to the diet (especially if your dog is eating a commercial diet!). Jacqui, is Neospora also carried in offal?

Kristin, my dogs get very meaty bones 4 times a week. This is usually rabbit, roo, chicken, turkey, and occasionally lamb. 3 times a week they get their veggie meal, when I make them up I use a couple of large bowls to mix them up in so I can put different veggies and offal in each lot, to ensure variety over time. I aim for a base of spinach for one lot, and celery for the other, but don't have a set mix, I just buy what evers cheap and try to aim for variety. I only put garlic in one of the mixes, as I have come to believe that garlic is best fed only occasionally. Their meat meals are about twice the size of the veggie meals. So their diet is roughly 70% RMB's, 20% veggies and 10% offal, before I add eggs, cottage cheese, yoghurt etc. Oh and I occasionally replace a veggie meal with fish. Because they have three veggie meals a week, it means that one day I can add Evening Primrose Oil, another Cod Liver Oil, and the other Salmon Oil. I add vit E to all veggie meals, as well as yoghurt. I will also add either cottage cheese, an egg, or some oats that have been soaked over night to their veggie meal, unless they are looking tubby! I make meals slightly small for this reason - I can always add something to bulk it up, but if the dogs start requiring less (and I've bagged up 2 months worth!) I can't make the meals smaller.

Poodlefan, you could try an apple corer? Blade, I used to believe the same thing! Its funny what kids will believe... I also believed that the reason I couldn't bring my Hampster to Australia was because she would explode on the aeroplane, dad only had to make that up because I wouldn't believe that Hampsters weren't allowed in Australia! My dogs veggie meals are just veggies, offal, eggs and apple cider vinegar (with a little sugar free fruit juice if it doesn't blend properly!). They get these 3 times a week BUT they get their veggie meals smaller than their RMB meals so the ratio works out at about 70% RMBs. There are two reasons for this, one because it is my version of a fast, I believe dogs wouldn't naturally eat weighed out amounts of food every day, so instead they get different sized meals, the other reason is that I could feed two veggie meals a week and have the meals the same size as the RMB meals, but I like to add various supps more than twice a week and can't add them to the RMB meal.

Thats very interesting about the Hills, I wonder what they put in it??? Hmm, got me stumped. I think I may do the same with my Boxer, hadn't thought of cooking the neospora meat only. I need a reminder though, what animals carry it? Is it Beef, lamb, goat and pork or something? If I feed raw chicken, turkey, roo and rabbit will that be fine? Thats pretty much all my dogs get anyway, they also get lamb but it is pricey and they only get it because they are strong, healthy, and not breeds that are prone to neospora. I could just cut it out completely for the Boxer. Another thing I have been wondering about, someone mentioned that if you freeze the meat then neospora isn't an issue, then another person said it still is, so I was wondering if it makes it safer, if not eliminating it completely? Lilian is not too well, she is hanging in there, but if she doesn't start to feel better I may have to put her out of her misery, it would be the only humane thing to do. It is cold today, and she is not coping with it well at all. I haven't spoken to Josh yet, hopefully he will get to Korea soon and will be able to call me from there. It's so worrying, also, him being out at sea

I don't like the idea of using the apple core. I read somewhere ages ago that many seeds have a natural form of arsenic in them, and I don't want my dogs eating that!

Why Hills? Is there something special they put in it? Abz, there are dangers that come with everything in life. I agree there should be warnings, but mostly I think its luck of the draw (also, Boxers are prone to it). My kitten has FIP, there was no way I could have prevented it and only one in 100 cats that get the carona virus actually get FIP. Lilian was in a controlled environment and she still got it. What I am saying as that no matter what you do, there are dangers in life. I think Jaqui would agree that feeding meat is generally ok, but it is when the immune system is already down (eg from cancer) that it poses a bigger risk. Did you know that kibble fed dogs actually have a higher rate of cancer than raw fed dogs? You can't protect against everything, unfortunately

Personally, if it is a choice between one and the other, I would recommend the blender, as it is more versatile. You can put whole eggs (shell and all) through, as well as offal, garlic, and anything else that you might not be able to put through a juicer. Preferably both would be better, I have a blender, but a juicer is on my list of "to buys" (I just got my freezer! Next is the puppy, THEN I will get a juicer!)

The chicken carcasses I get are very meaty, which is good because it means I don't have to buy extra muscle meat! I also feed a great deal of rabbit, can't go wrong there, they are naturally balanced, with meat, bone and offal, and are also a good source of meat to feed (and free!). I occasionally feed roo tail, they are very meaty, but the dogs can't chew through the bone so they only get them about once a week. They also get turkey wings, again, very meaty, because of the meaty bones I feed I don't have to add muscle meat at all, so their veggie meals are just veggie, eggs and offal, and a few other additives. If you follow Dr B's recommendations you don't want to feed everything in one meal anyway, which is why I feed the really meaty bones, so their veggie meal can be meat free

Yay it worked! Thank you so much Holly!