Prydenjoy

Well I've never actually fed satin balls before, all the mixes I've come across before have all been so grain filled and unhealthy I would never have even thought to feed them to any of my dogs, but this one looks a lot better, I think I'll make some up to feed during shows when the dogs otherwise aren't very hungry but need to keep their weight on if they're going to do any good!

Glad you're not offended Raz, I knew you were above that KitKat, yes I see where you are coming from. I do so much of my own research that when a vet says something like that to me I completely disregard it, even with doctors I usually do a bit of my own research when they tell me something, just incase there is more to the story or something has slipped my mind HOWEVER, when a mechanic tells me something is wrong with my car I have no choice other than believe them because I know nothing about cars - I guess I just have to keep in mind that not everybody spends as much time looking into dog nutrition as I do

Here's a recipe I got from GreatDanz: 1 lb ground beef 1 8 oz pkg cream cheese 1 jar all natural peanut butter 1 jar (smaller of the sizes) wheat germ 1 doz egg yolks 1 cup or so of flaked oats soaked in heavy cream Mix up, form balls, freeze, feed as treats or food supplement. It's the best satin ball recipe I've seen to date

Oh I'd take Paris home in a second Although 18 inches is not 6 feet, I would still be very cautious. It always confuses me, and kind of angers me to be honest, when vets say that an animal is allergic to something so can't eat a raw diet... WHY??? The main beauty of raw is that it can be taylored to a dogs needs, so how can it be better to feed a kibble with god knows what in it, than a diet that can be carefully monitored and taylored to suit the dogs needs? And what gets to me just as much (I don't mean to offend anyone, sorry if I do) is the people that beleive this tripe, god where does common sence come into the picture???

Haven't heard back from Chris yet, but I'll email him now As for Gretchen eating raw, well I KNOW my dogs are fine eating raw, so many people feed raw to healthy dogs every day with no problem, and I suppose there would also be no problem with feeding a dog less six foot of intestine raw, but I dont know that because I'm not sure if anyone has ever tried it, for all we know it affects the acidity in the stomach etc, so I still probably wouldn't do it. However, I would possibly feed meat seared on each side but still raw in the middle, but until I had seen other dogs in this condition eating totally raw meat without problem I would probably play it safe and not feed it at all

Which one? There are a few, some are better than others. Barfingk9sinoz (I think thats its name) is a good, Australian one, but I'm not sure if it's a yahoo group or another email list thingie... it's fairly quiet but when you do ask a question it does get answered Oh and I like that it's Australian too, you get word of Aussie suppliers, bargains etc and you can also meet the people sometimes ETA link for barfingk9s_inoz

Hey I've got that book Only got through half of it though, and that was years ago so I've forgotten all the "lessons"

What do you mix it with? When my guys get kibble (which isn't often) I mix it with a mix of blended offal with pet mince (which I buy from the butchers, it is basically chicken frames through a mincer so has the correct calcium/phosphorus etc), and add some yoghurt, fish oil, brewers yeast, kelp and sometimes an egg or something, my guys love it and it's nice and healthy

Oh Anne, I can see why you were so confused She got desexed and when left alone tore open the stitches and atE her intestines. When her carer arrived home she arrived to a bloody mess and rushed her to the vets, thank doG she survived, she is such a beautiful dog! She has got such a sensitive stomach now though, the vets gave her a bag of Hills and once she finnished that she went on to a normal kibble that the rest of the RSPCA dogs were fed on, and she got terribly ill. I think they are trying to get Hills to supply them with food for her because it never gets donated, and despite their claims to provide RSPCA animals all around the country with food it is simply not true. If she were mine I would feed her high quality food with plenty of probiotics, I believe you can get food that is kind of like "predigested" or something? Not sure, but thats the sort of thing I'd have her on, I just hope she doesn't go to someone who thinks it's ok to feed pal Here's Gretchen: As to them not getting ill because of their short digestive tracts, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't go messing about with a dogs life because of something "I'm not sure" about.

Fifi, that's hilarious... I WANT FRIENDS LIKE YOURS!!!! I just want to add, although I am a huge advocate of BARF, I agree that it isn't always best for every dog. For example, some dogs can't eat bones (digestive problems). Also, I know a dog that at 6 feet of her own intestines after being desexed, I would never even attempt to feed her a raw diet for fear that her digestive tract may not be long enough to kill bacteria. I would also like to add though, that some of the problems described by people in this thread were probably caused by feeding commercial food in the first place. My Boxer has been raw fed (admittedly with some premium kibble here and there) his whole life, and I have never seen a healthier pup :D :D

Hey thats great to hear! I'll be so happy when Merlin is that age when he can just put on weight and stay like that, at the moment he goes through stages where he'll eat 2kg a day and really bulk out, then he'll stop eating, maybe eat a chicken frame or two a day and just shoot up inches practically over night! But not weight, he does the bulk out, shoot up thing and his bulk turns into hight and sometimes despite getting bigger he actually looses weight. Eagle Pack is a great food, how do you like it?

That's called evolution, we're not apes anymore Dog's have been selectively bred from wolves to look different, but their digestive tracts are still exactly the same. Also, look at an apes teeth, they are different to ours - that is because we have evolved to eat different things, dogs and wolves teeth are the same

Hi GreatDanz It's true that different things work for different dogs, however I have found that most dogs do best with at least some veggies in their diet. I was on the meat bone and offal diet for some months... well my dogs were at least I found that when I gave them veggies again their coat improved, as did their energy etc. If you think about it, humans probably started off eating a bit of meat here and there and a few veggies, possibly grasses/seeds/berry's etc, however, that doesn't mean that herbs etc don't enhance our health. Sure, we CAN live without them, but they can still work wonders. The more variety of things we get the better, and it is probably the same with our dogs. As long as we do not make a significant part of their diet, more than 20% - 30%, vegetable matter than they can receive the health benefits without missing out from all the valuable nutrients etc from veggies. My my 2c

Well I didn't mean litterally bone and muscle, it depends a lot on the breed eg my Whippet when he is just bone and muscle looks like a skeleton, but Boxers and many rotties just get a hard feel to them, not the soft feel that they have when they have a layer or two of fat, but certainly not showing all their ribs etc. I can't comment on the "perfect working condition" rotty, or your own because I can't see them, but thats the best explaination I can give The fatdog link is on the first page of this thread.

Everyone has a different view on a dogs "ideal" weight. To me a "perfect" condition dog is just bones and muscle. Thats what Merlins father looks like (even though he is shown, in fact he is a grand champion) and I was stunned, most of the show dogs have a layer (or two) of fat, especially in the larger breeds this isn't always ideal - for the dog. In winter I allow my dogs to get a little extra fat on them to keep warm, but that's it. Unfortunately if I were to keep my dogs as lean as I like them, the Whippet at least, would look horrible for "show", the Boxer is still a pup so I've got no idea what he'll look good at (weight wise) when he is older. The Papillon isn't shown, so I try to keep him at a healthy, agile 1.5kg, anything more and he looses energy, but it is hard to keep him from pinching the big dogs food occasionally

Fifi, Chris is looking into transport, I'll let you know when he gets back to me

Yes thats true, but what I was getting at is that if you spend the cost of feeding canned food (usually a couple of dollars a day) on a higher quality kibble you'll get a better quality diet

There's a reason for that - your vet WANTS you to spend a lot of money on his expensive kibble! Honestly, my Boxer pup is growing ever so nicely on a raw diet, there have been plenty of Great Danes reared on BARF, so why would it be so bad for an Amstaff? I know plenty of people, on the other hand, that have fed nothing but kibble and their dogs suffer a range of bone problems. BARF is one of the best things you can do for a pups bones because it is natural and the pup grows at a natural rate, many kibbles create more problems than they prevent :rolleyes:

Well I hate to say it, but when you're getting dog food you (generally) get what you pay for. If you don't want to spend much on food then you'll get inferior quality. If you feed BARF then at least you can shop around for specials?

Well thats one way to make a fussy dog lose weight But seriously, I'm not sure what you're feeding her, but have you ever thought that if you cut out the canned food you can spend your savings on a better quality kibble? After all, canned food is junk food for dogs, not good for them, and it costs a bomb! I can't comment on her weight from just that picture, she doesn't look obese, but thats not to say she isn't "chubby" - I can't really tell by just a photo. Some people have a different view on fat than others, people who say she is lean may just be used to seeing obese labs, which is sad because those are the ones that suffer a mine field of health problems

WTF Chicken carcass' here cost about $2 PER KG!!! Pet mince costs around $3-$4 plus per kg, marrow bones cost about $4 each... where do you live??? I think I'll move there!!! I live in Sydney and I pay: $4 for 10kg of carcasses from a chinese butcher. $1.20/kg of pet chicken mince from a chicken shop in a Westfield shopping centre - can be found cheaper, but this is convienient for me. $1.00/kg for lamb necks - chinese butcher again off cust the same. another chenese butcher sells lamb necks for $1 each (less than a kg each) And the are all cut to the size I want! $1.50 chicken necks - poultry wholesaler $1.69 chicken wings - 3 shops at westfields sell them for that much. Well I guess I'm going to have to find myself a nice chinese butcher :D

WTF Chicken carcass' here cost about $2 PER KG!!! Pet mince costs around $3-$4 plus per kg, marrow bones cost about $4 each... where do you live??? I think I'll move there!!!

In short - too bloody much! My guys are fed BARF. I have a Whippet who is 14kg and eats about twice as much as a whippet his size should, a Boxer who is nearly 6 months and generally has a very good appetite, and a Papillon who is 1.5kg and only eats about 100g per day . On average they eat about 2.5kg of food a day. Their food probably averages out to cost about $3 plus per kg, so thats $7.50 per day so roughly $50 a week.

Yes, there is a lot of info re: Hills/Iams and animal testing, but I chose not to mention that because there is a lot of debate about it, as for the ingredients on the other hand, all you have to do is have a look on the back of the bag to see it is all grains and by-products, nothing of any nutrition, they might as well be eating cardboard. As for Innova, I did look into that but the only place to buy it supports puppy millers, so I refuse to support them

I wouldn't say you're going backwards - personally I'd feed Nutrience before Iams, but different things work for different dogs, I wont feed any of my dogs Iams, even if I get it for free (no offence to those who do, I just don't like what they put in their food - read the list of ingredients and you'll see what I mean).