larry

if places like Big W are selling the 'normal' Hills lines, and they are selling flea products and other chemicals, i dont see why eventually they wont end up selling the more specialised hills lines ? Flea chemicals can be dangerous if mis-used, so surely special food lines are far safer to sell ? Hills decided to only sell their foods to vets/pet shops in the past, so they can just as easily decide to do the same for the 'specialised' food lines surely ? I thought Hills was owned by a big multinational company, so they probably sell other lines to Big W anyway ? Once Hills sells to places like Big W with no specially trained pet staff, then probably Eukanuba will follow ? I was told by my vet in the past that hills food was only sold to vets, and then it was eventually also sold to pet shops, but that is obviously not the case anymore as it is now being sold to the supermarket type outlets.....

I wasn't able to ask any questions of the staff in the Big W, there were no staff at all to be seen near the pet area...at least they cant give me the wrong advise about flea products...that's scary-when dealing with strong chemicals like that...mistakes could be dangerous..... I didn't notice any Iams for sale there, but i didn't really look that carefully....... I remember when supercoat was only sold in pet stores in WA, and then the supermarkets started to sell it, i was told by friends that used to buy it that the product didn't seem the same after a while, and that they then switched brands...... it looks like Hills is the next brand to be sold in the chain stores.....

I was in Big W in Karrinyup (WA) yesterday and saw Hills science diet food for sale there I was told by my vet in the past that Hills is a special food , only for sale in vets and specialist shops, but now Big W sells it..... I didn't keep track of the prices, so i'm not sure how much cheaper it was though..... so really all pet foods should be available in the big chain stores in time ?

I was in the BIG W in karrinyup in WA today, and i noticed they had stock of Hills pet foods i'm not sure how their prices compared to the local vets

i was told by a vet that many of the processed dog foods sold in the 'sausage' form in the supermarkets contain sulphur dioxide, also read about this http://www.kangaroo-protection-coalition.c...roopetmeat.html

you will probably be ok if you have only fed a small amount to your dog..... it seems that most dogs affected ate quite a lot...... it looks like the usa has had lots of similar cases with treats.... it sounds like our govt doesn't keep in touch with the usa regarding food safety, or possibly this owuldn't have happened here ? http://www.avma.org/press/media_alerts/070...erky_treats.asp http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/...art-tests-.html http://petfoodtracker.blogspot.com/2007/08...called-dog.html the problem is , we never know the name of the factories in china that importers here buy from, so it's hard to know what chinese made treats are more risky to eat ? ......

i wonder what contamination factor they will find in this case.... ? it was a pity that kramar didn't want to recall their product, and tried to threaten the vets involved first...15 sick dogs, so far...... seems like a significant problem ? http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/09/2441919.htm i would have thought that their customer's dogs welfare would come first ? the problem is that if you get dog food made in china, even if a company has a haccp plan, this doesn't protect their customers. There have been many cases in the past 2-3 years where food companies in china have used lower quality and unsafe ingredients, and then hide the fact, and haccp auditors haven't found out...... China needs to really overhaul their food safety system, plus they need to also treat pet food as something deserving of similar safety standards as human food......

i wonder what contamination factor they will find in this case.... ? it was a pity that kramar didn't want to recall their product, and tried to threaten the vets involved first...15 sick dogs, so far...... seems like a significant problem ? http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/09/2441919.htm i would have thought that their customer's dogs welfare would come first ? the problem is that if you get dog food made in china, even if a company has a haccp plan, this doesn't protect their customers. There have been many cases in the past couple of years where food companies in china have used lower quality and unsafe ingredients, and then hide the fact, and haccp auditors haven't found out...... China needs to really overhaul their food safety system, plus they need to also treat pet food as something deserving of similar safety standards as human food......

http://www.avma.org/press/media_alerts/070...erky_treats.asp there are probably other brands affected, if this media alert from the usa last year is any indication..... there are probably lots of other companies importing chicken jerky treats into australia and the usa that are made in china under a range of brand names, however the common factor is that they are made in china.... it seems from dog food contamination problems in recent years that the smaller dogs are always worst affected, however just because big dogs don't always get chronic symptoms, it doesn't mean that they are getting internal damage....

i wonder what manufacturers in china were involved in this AVMA (USA) media alert from last year http://www.avma.org/press/media_alerts/070...erky_treats.asp there are probably lots of other companies importing chicken jerky treats into australia and the usa that are made in china under a range of brand names, however the common factor is that they are made in china.... it seems from dog food contamination problems in recent years that the smaller dogs are always worst affected, however just because big dogs don't always get chronic symptoms, it doesn't mean that they are getting internal damage....

We have been feeding our dogs natural balance (the one made in australia) for many years and they have done quite well on it. Dogs are like people-most people can eat common ingredients, but some people (and dogs) are allergic to certain foods eg beef, wheat, corn, chicken, etc lillysmum-Natural Balance contains corn gluten meal (not whole corn), which i understand is added due to it contain certain amino acids, our dogs don't seem to have any problem with the corn gluten meal that the NB contains, and many dog foods use corn gluten without any problems. eg many of the nutro lines, etc the usa natural balance has a lot of organic products, and i know you like organic products, but they are the one that had to recall some of it wet pet food products as they were involved in the large recall in the USA-hardly a ringing endorsement in my book......

i was told in the past that pets paradise is the sole importer of innova in australia so emails to the company in the usa won't do any good i know a lot of people that won't buy innova as they don't want to support pets paradise as they use backyard breeders and puppy farms

hi helen the VAN food seems to contain a lot of raw grains i was under the impression that dogs can't digest the starch from grains unless it has been partially cooked, like when dog biscuits are extruded using steam. I don't think that a lot of the grain content would be that digestible in that raw form.... confused.gif even the soaking isn't going to make much if any difference.....

hi helen i would agree with poodlefan i was under the impression that dogs can't digest the starch from grains unless it has been partially cooked, like when dog biscuits are extruded using steam. I don't think that a lot of the grain content would be that digestible in that raw form.... even the soaking isn't going to make much if any difference.....

hi daccie you have a good point, if it was me i would have taken my dog to the vet asap, but maybe he couldn't face putting his dog down... (i know plenty of people like that) and hoped his dog would recover.... we don't know the reasons why he didn't take his dog to be put down...but then either way, his dog was going to die.....

http://www.itchmo.com/go/tagged/safety/ "" Given shipping volumes — tens of thousands of foodstuff containers arrive each year — it is not possible to scan every export that reaches U.S. shores. Even if it were feasible, testing for an array of potential contaminants would be prohibitively expensive. A single test of one food sample for the toxic compound dioxin can cost $800 or more. As China’s consumers grow wealthier and more informed, they are becoming less tolerant of such transgressions. Take the baby-food scandal of 2004, in which ersatz formula killed dozens of infants and sickened hundreds with severe malnutrition. Thanks to the Internet and mobile phones, that scandal received national attention and public outrage was met with at least 130 arrests and mass demotions. Although outside agencies such as the FDA and the World Health Organization are working with Chinese authorities, this is at heart a problem only Beijing can solve. Doing so is a matter of self-interest for the Chinese government, which is trying to expand opportunities for agricultural trade. " interesting comments regarding testing-they echo what i said earlier, in that importers can't test for 'everything'..... and buying from high risk suppliers like china is a problem........ It will be interesting to see what work china does in the future to clean up it's food industry...... i have a feeling that there will be a lot of lawsuits in the coming years due to these food poisoning cases http://starbulletin.com/2007/05/12/news/story02.html i read this and felt so sorry for the owners of these dogs.... Embarrassed if this happened to any of my pets i think i would be devastated.... Embarrassed and i would want the companies that caused the poisonings due to their wanting to save money to really suffer......

hi gomez, http://www.itchmo.com/go/tagged/safety/ "" Given shipping volumes — tens of thousands of foodstuff containers arrive each year — it is not possible to scan every export that reaches U.S. shores. Even if it were feasible, testing for an array of potential contaminants would be prohibitively expensive. A single test of one food sample for the toxic compound dioxin can cost $800 or more. As China’s consumers grow wealthier and more informed, they are becoming less tolerant of such transgressions. Take the baby-food scandal of 2004, in which ersatz formula killed dozens of infants and sickened hundreds with severe malnutrition. Thanks to the Internet and mobile phones, that scandal received national attention and public outrage was met with at least 130 arrests and mass demotions. Although outside agencies such as the FDA and the World Health Organization are working with Chinese authorities, this is at heart a problem only Beijing can solve. Doing so is a matter of self-interest for the Chinese government, which is trying to expand opportunities for agricultural trade. " interesting comments regarding testing-they echo what i said earlier, in that importers can't test for 'everything'..... and buying from high risk suppliers like china is a problem........ It will be interesting to see what work china does in the future to clean up it's food industry...... i have a feeling that there will be a lot of lawsuits in the coming years due to these food poisoning cases http://starbulletin.com/2007/05/12/news/story02.html i read this and felt so sorry for the owners of these dogs.... Embarrassed if this happened to any of my pets i think i would be devastated.... Embarrassed and i would want the companies that caused the poisonings due to their wanting to save money to really suffer......

hi daxhound i wonder why the usa royal canine used some chinese vegetable proteins to cut costs, but the european guys didn't ? if they had a reason not to, then why didn't the usa operation also do the same ?

If Eagle pack is only using USA ingredients then it looks like they are a lot safer USA dog food to buy than many of the other usa brands that have been involved in the recent recalls..... it looks like some more royal canine products have been recalled http://www.itchmo.com/ from the itchmo site : "Update: RC quietly changed the recall dates involved. Please click on the link above for the latest." FDA warns their own staff about cancer risk when inspecting melamine-tainted foods. Meanwhile, public is assured melamine-tainted foods are safe. http://www.itchmo.com/read/fda-melamine-su...-risks_20070509

it looks like some more royal canine products have been recalled http://www.itchmo.com/ from the itchmo site : "Update: RC quietly changed the recall dates involved. Please click on the link above for the latest." FDA warns their own staff about cancer risk when inspecting melamine-tainted foods. Meanwhile, public is assured melamine-tainted foods are safe. http://www.itchmo.com/read/fda-melamine-su...-risks_20070509

Hi gomez from my understanding the australian 'natural balance' is NOT at all related to the usa 'natural balance' they have the same name, but are different companies, so you are incorrect there. i have been told that there are not related at all, or are you just assuming they are related ? regarding corn-we used to give our dogs home cooked foods in the past-and if we have them small pieces of vegetables mixed into their food (eg carrots, peas, etc) , then a lot of these also passed through undigested, so we pureed the veges to fix this. Does that mean vegetables are not good to feed to dogs ? I don't think so..... In dog foods i don't think they keep the corn are whole pieces, it is ground up in the mix so it is digestible, also the dog food is extruded, which means it is cooked with steam, this makes the starches more digestible (the same as for people-bread or breakfast cereals are a lot more digestible than flour. We make our own bread at home, so i am sure of this...) You really need to get some scientific test figures on the digestibility of ground and extruded corn before you make comments that corn is not digestible....I am sure i have read on the websites of the large pet food manufacturers in the past that they have tested this and the digestibility is good. I thought the nutro website had info on corn gluten as well ? miranda , that is a valid case where your dogs didn't react well to a food with corn, however I also know dogs that can't handle beef, others that are allergic to a variety of foods. It's like people, some people can eat everything, some are sensitive to certain foods, it doesn't mean a particular ingredient is bad, it just means that particular animal can't handle it... eg one of my friends get the 'runs ' from even a little bit of milk-does that mean milk is bad ??

Gomez, we feed our dogs natural balance http://www.naturalbalance.net.au/ and they are doing quite well on it. From checking in the past they use lamb meal, but it is from human grade meat direct from the abbatoirs.. Why do you not like corn or corn gluten meal ? From my understanding some dogs (and people) might not handle wheat well, some might not do well with rice, some might not digest corn well. But to say 'corn' (or wheat or corn) is not good is a bit simplistic, it does depend on the dog. we have friends who's dog's were allergic to wheat, and others who do well on foods that contain wheat... badboyz-i thought the video was interesting, but usa is not the same as australia, and meat suppliers can certainly vary in quality. Don't forget usa/canada/europe got mad cow disease-australia NEVER has. What happens in the USA doesn't necessarily happen here.. i always think of restaurants as an example-you can't say all restaurants are bad, but some certainly 'cut corner's and produce unsafe food, its the same with suppliers. I used to work in restaurants and some suppliers were terrible, and a good restaurant wouldn't buy from them, even if they were cheaper...emphasis on 'good' restaurant.... That's why this quality problem in the USA has shown a lot of people what happens in the usa/canada with so many companies 'cutting corner's' with suppliers..... The usa has some pet food manufacturers that weren't involved in the recall because they didn't use low quality suppliers, and now people know who did cut corners (and who didn't keep checking their suppliers) and what companies they can trust....

Hello miranda, that is a good point, however from reading about lamb meal this is the same as lamb, but with the water removed.(ie dehydrated lamb) So the weight of lamb meal would be about 25% of the weight of raw lamb, so if a company uses lamb meal since the weight of the lamb is reduced by 75% it won't tend to be the first ingredient. One this i notice is companies can tend to 'split up' a grain, so that it doesn't come first in the ingredients list eg rather than just listing 'rice' in one of the nutro products, they list : Ground Rice, Rice Flour, Rice Bran http://www.nutroproducts.com/ncdry-lr.shtml#ingredients

there are still two more USA companies that bought some contaminated ingredients, but the FDA is dragging it's feet on releasing their names.... http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007...d_recall35.html it will be interesting to find out why they are witholding the information for so long.... if companies want to cut their costs by buying from china, then problems like these are the end result.....

now that some royal canine cat food lines from the usa have been recalled http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007...d_recall33.html it will be interesting to see who are the other two usa companies that used the affected rice protein concentrate and who still have not revealed themselves….So more products will still be announced…. I wouldn't be surprised if the usa congress eventually regulates that pet food manufacturers have to reveal where there ingredients come from, and chinese sourced ingredients come under special scrutiny... Buying pet food made from australian lamb or beef seems like a lot safer option...