Kelpie-i

Thanks guys. Buddy meant a lot to me and I am still grieving from the loss, albeit some of the memories that first made me cry, now make me smile. I don't think I will ever get over losing him but the hurt subsides, although I still cry uncontrollably when I watch the tribute or look at his photos. I have not been able to move his bed yet, it still lays on the floor where it always has with his collar sitting on top. The bed still has all his hair on it...I just cannot bring myself to clean it or move it just yet. Maybe one day.

Very sad and extremely scary but not surprising. I sometimes hear of these stories and cannot believe such 'instructors' are still walk this earth in this day and age of dog training. People please remember that not all instructors are like that and that there are some excellent instructors out there who can perform miracles with your dogs without psychological/physical harm.

Which is my point exactly PF, the technique shown to the OP is not working and therefore needs to find a trainer who is able to demonstrate and teach her what and how to do it correctly. Teaching a dog seperately is one thing and you can achieve LLW with a dog when on it's own but when you pair that dog up with another and the usual triggers emerge (pack, excitability, contest of being in front etc), you need to train it all over again with the 2 dogs together. This is double the work for the owner who just wants to walk her dogs together. I deal with these situations regularly and have never come accross an owner who was not able to apply the technique required for this sort of situation, unless the dogs were way too big and strong for the owner or the owner had a disability of some sort which restricted strength and/or use of arms etc.

I think the walking backwards thing has now become a very predictable pattern for your dogs so they don't mind walking backwards/forward/backward/forward and so on each time, because they are reaching their destination with this going on each time! Matters not to them how many times you do this, its not working and it won't. You can most certainly walk 2 dogs together and you should not have to go out of your way to walk them separately, it's just that you have not found/mastered the right technique yet. It most certainly can be achieved without having to train/walk them separately and it is very dependant on the style/method of training being applied. Perhaps you could arrange a private session with one of the trainers at your current club?

Hello Pesto's Mum We run classes in Keilor Downs which is not too far from Maribyrnong. Excellent to see that you are wanting to continue training with your pup aftr pre-school.

Brilliant!

Unbelievable rubbish! Energy spent where it's not required. Leave the guy alone and let him do what he does best, otherwise these organisations should put their money where their mouth is and showcase to everyone how they handle and rehabilitate dangerous dogs.

HR, we are short on instructors on the 20th (some are going to the conference), so I need to be there to take some classes and run the centre so that we are not running on skeleton staff. It's a real bugger but there isn't much I can do about it. At least I still get to go

Oooh I love that book. Read it ages ago, must pick it up again! Would you say that apart from instinct and cognition that the reason some of these dogs exhibit mimicry and/or intelligent disobedience is because they have 'learned to learn' as young pups? With the brain growing at 80% capacity in the first 16 weeks, if a pup was allowed to experiment with various behaviours and was then reinforced (whether purposely or inadvertently) that this would lend itself to the ability to problem solving in a much higher capacity, taking into consideration the breed and the dog's instinct? Therefore it might be a case of : brain growth + learning to learn (cognition) + reinforcers/motivation + instinct + experimentation = behaviour? I hope this question makes sense as I am thinking aloud.

Easy....just figure out what the 'little girl's' motivation is......ice cream with chocolate topping and sprinkles as a reward for eating steak Lots of R+ . I remember my mother forcing me to take horrid cod liver oil because "it was good for me" .....I'm sure she did it as a form of entertainment for herself She would offer me a spoonful of honey to wash it down, thinking it would make it easier.....yuk! That was P+ at its best!

Well I just thought I'd brag about share with you some of the dogs in the following TV commercials for PetStock The 2nd ad shows my very own Kelpie bitch Tasha sitting and waiting patiently before jumping into the back of a ute. What a star!! The last ad features one of our client's dogs called Lilly. She is a 6 year old Lab who has been training with us for the same amount of time. An awesome dog with some awesome skills. Her "leave it" skills were put to the test in the filming of the commercial as she had to leave a piece of steak being constantly waved in her face. A difficult task for a Lab and what a brilliant job done! Lilly features at the end of each PetStock commercial. A huge congratulations to her owner for her dedication to training. Here is the link to the website: Petstock Commercials for anyone who is interested.

Am going on the Sunday and Monday...can't make the Saturday unfortunately I just know I'll be like a fish out of water on Sunday

Interesting thread Aidan. I haven't looked at the llink yet (too tired from dog training ) but I will. But going by the input in the thread it's seems like an interesting phenomenon (perhaps not the correct word to use). Dogs have allelomimetic tendencies so it's only natural that they would/could mimic certain behaviours without being trained 'mechanically'. I like the word INITIATIVE because it shows that the dog is thinking on his own and making a decision. How did the dog know to hold the fly-blown sheep without being taught or told to? Instinct, cognition...a combination of both?? I believe that many of the usual everyday routines, which may or may not be 'usual' for all households are products of some sort of cognitive function which may have come about because the initial offering of the behaviour was pleasing or useful to us, therefore we reinforced it. Many years ago when I my poodle was alive (wow some 20 years ago now). I was getting ready to go out and was busily drying my hair with the hairdryer in the bathroom. The telephone in my room was ringing but I couldn't hear it. My poodle came running into the bathroom barking with a sort of urgency and simultaneously running to the door and back. I switched off the hairdryer to hear the phone ringing. I had never taught him this, so how did he know to come and let me know that the phone was ringing? And what would have been his motivation to do so? Some dogs bark AT the phone or just ignore it all together, so this was intriguing for me. I will read the link.

I agree completely Erny, but I think anything is worth a try... nag them to death I reckon.

I say we organise a huge rally like the one they did when the state govt proposed shutting down of the Tote hotel. Strength in numbers!

I am very sorry to hear of your Tinka's passing. I know first hand the pain you are going through having also lost my special boy not to long ago. Hugs and kisses to you and know that she is now free to run without pain at the Bridge. Take care. PS..she's beautiful!

Here is my boy Buddy who passed away in January this year. Missing him dearly. He was 16 years old and his favourite pass time was sleeping and......sleeping some more!

We need laws to prevent this from happening! Nekhbet are you doing work with ALV?

BUMP...... Thanks for voting and/or for passing it on. Let's keep it going!

For what it's worth, please visit the link. It is a chance to ask the Premier of Victoria Mr. John Brumby to look at what Victorians would like. We would like to see the end of puppy milling, and therefore pets being sold in Pet shops. It's currently ranked number 2 in suggestions and ideas being posed on the Premier of Victoria's website, it would be great if we could make it number 1. Oscar's Law Please go to this site and click on "promote" for "Introduce legislation to stop the abuse of dogs-'Oscar's Law"

Blacktown Pound

Hi Aidan, I just don't see why the OP should be referred to see someone who probably hasn't a clue about working/herding dogs.... and also one that is most likely only going to dose up the dog on drugs some $300 later? What diagnosis is there to make...high drive dog + not enough stimulation = behaviour. We live in a society who is way too quick to 'cure' all behaviours with medication. What happened to good old fashion common sense?

Excellent! No need for Chlomicalm then! I still believe she should give herding a go.....

Thank you all for your beautiful sentiments. Not a moment goes by when I am not thinking of him. It seems nearly everything I did involved Bud in some way, shape or form. He was a huge part of my life for many years and now he's gone. Nothing and no other dog will ever take his place. He's left a pawprint in my heart forever. Trish

Feel free to disagree Vicki :rolleyes: The OP is already doing agility and tricks with the dog. The fact of the matter is, this particular dog is not getting enough mental stimulation and is seeking his own alternatives. We can't be sure this dog is 'sporting' bred and if he's come from a farm, chances are he's working bred. Dog sports are great, but they do not replace the type of mental stimulation and physical challenges provided by work. Due to their instincts, obsessive disorders are prevalent in most herding dogs (not breed specific), albeit they manifest themselves in different ways. Some become ball/fetch obsessed, others chase butterlies/birds and others chase shadows - the key behaviour is a strong instinct to 'chase'. These are not behavioural issues as such, but more the result of boredom and lack of mental stimulation in an intuitive dog that can easily be channelled into something more appropriate. Nothing wrong with giving herding a go but yes I agree...sheep herding can be difficult to access depending on where you live.