Kelpie-i

A couple of weeks ago we had a dog who snapped his cheap $2 Shop correction chain and went for a run around the school grounds. We have also had a number of those cheap nylon clip collars snap in half as well. I have burned my hands using nylon leads as well and now every time I work with a big dog, I use one of our leads instead. We have totally banned chain leads from our school. The sad thing is, these nasty pieces of "training" equipment are readily sold at all pet stores and are prettied up with colours and studs so that people are buying for looks rather than practicality. (sigh!)

LOL, I never thought anyone would notice I was gone. I have been ill and have just had an operation to have a benign tumour removed from my brain. Am recovering at home now. I agree with Aussky, it's the approach in which you administer the correction with the spray bottle, however there are certainly some overly sensitive dogs who make generalised associations and become wary of everything water related. As Am stated, it interrupts the behaviour - sort of "snaps" the dog out of what he is focussed on. Once the dog has stopped, the handler can ask for focus or for whatever command with the dog in a calmer state, in which case it will be more likely to comply. I believe this to be a very effective way of correction with an untrained dog and novice handler. :p

Kavik, I stated that the dog would not necessarily be afraid of other forms of water, not the "instrument' used - sorry if I was unclear. However, I would much rather use the spray bottle than use some of other methods I have seen in my time in addition to this, I would rather have a dog be vary of a bottle than of my hand!

Hi, Sorry to hijak (it's been quite some time since I've been online). Haven I have to disagree with you on the above . We use the water bottle method for numerous problems and have found it be quite effective and have yet to see it cause other issues for the dogs. On the contrary, those that have used one now swear by it as they have been able to gain some control over their dogs for the purpose of teaching new behaviours. The jet stream from a water bottle is different to a body of water found in a bath, lake etc and different again to the the flow of water from a hose. The dog generally does not make the association. Teaching a dog to focus can take some time to achieve properly and novice handlers will tend to place their dogs in situations which both they and their dogs are not ready to deal with. The water bottle spray is the easiest and least harmful method to gain some sort of control when the owner finds themselves in a helpless situation. Don't worry Buster's Mum, you've done nothing wrong.

If your training methods work for you and you are doing them properly from the start, then as Am stated, you'll probably never need one.

I would would worry more about the comfort level of my dog rather than worry about what other people think! Your choice though, this was merely my findings and suggestion.

Sorry, I'm going to add my 20c worth. I don't like the Blackdog ones as they are too small. Nowhere to put phone, keys as well as dog treats. A wonderful friend of mine bought me a training pouch for Xmas and it was bigger than the black dog one. It had two openings, one for phone, keys, clickers etc and the bigger section for all the treats you can muster. I don't know the brand unfortunately. I'll have to ask where she got it from. In the US, they have ones with special ball pouches, tug toy clips, the works! Much more impressive. Do a search on the internet for dog training pouches, you'll find a great variety, cheaper too (even when you add on the postage).

I don't like any muzzle that wraps around the dog's muzzle. If you are training, which involves lots of physical movement, your dog will find it extremely hard to pant, especially on warmer days. I prefer the wired cage type muzzles or even greyhound muzzles. Dogs seem much happer with them on as they can still open their mouths to pant and you can still give treats through the holes. To give dogs a drink, simply unclip. Unfortunatel6y, it would probably be very uncomfortable if you combined it with a halti.

Herding Guy.... Three words for you B.B.C

No, no by-products whatsoever. All I saw was fresh meat and chicken going into the big cookers. The chicken had the skin on so perhaps there were some feathers still stuck on. Anyways, when your dog was once a wolf, he would eat the entire kill, guts, feathers and all!

Jayess, We were fortunate enough to have a walk through the Nature's Gift factory and saw exactly what goes into the food and i can assure you that it's only fresh meat, vegies and rice etc goes into those cans. None of that nasty offal or by-product as many of the others have. The owners of NG were very obliging and it was refreshing to see a company that really cared about what went into the food. They are a small business competing with the big monsters out there and they are doing a wonderful job.

Hi, sorry have only just come accross this thread...really interesting. I hope you don't mind if I throw my 20c worth. Melisski, is your BC working or show bred line? Reason I ask is that I have noticed that working lines tend to be a little more aggressive than the show bred lines. This is due to their very strong instincts. A very good friend of mine has quite an aggressive BC towards other dogs, but when she took him herding for the first time, he was within metres of ther dogs and did not bat an eyelid. So much so that he was happily standing around and within very close proximity of other dogs - mind you the whole time he was keeping his eye on the sheep. My friend was extremely stunned by this. Our working bitch has a small circle of friends which she plays with, but watch out any labs or golden retreivers who come near her! It think it's the bouncy, "in your face" type dogs she doesn't like. Her best friend is a BC, they seem to "understand" each other really well. Of course, this is certainly not a hard an fast rule, but from my experiences, working lines are a little more "snappy". I would also be putting your dog's aggression down to puberty. At 7-8 months of age is when his hormones start to rise as he turns into a teenager. This is when he starts to feel all tough in side - pretty much like a 14 or 15 year old boy. Unfortunately the problem does not go away miraculously and you will need to work at keeping his mind busy at all times when he's around other dogs. Have you heard of motivational play training?? This style of training uses drives and it channels your dog's drives onto something else, taking his mind off his hormones. It has worked with many "busy" and aggressive dogs. Open to comments, of course!

Hey Herding Guy Most certainly your knowledge is well worth the cost and I would not hesitate to paying for the privilege. I would recommend anybody attend as it will be a very informative and fun day/s. Sorry if my post came accross somewhat unclear.

Redhead $80 is a good price if it's for 2 days. The last time one of these was held - last year, it was $120 per day, with expert tuition from guest trainer Paul McPhail. I'll tell David to check his emails. Be nice to my sheep, won't you!

Alls I can say is Baaa Ram Ewe!! I'll be there with bells on... Pippi, you've gotta try a Kelpie, it's like test driving a Lamborghini. ;)

Congrats.... Let us know how you go!

Welcome aboard herding guy......it's about time you found this forum. What took you so long?

I once attended a trial where I am positive the sheep used were "devil" sheep. I don't think they'd ever seen dogs before as even the most experienced trial dogs were having trouble. These things were absolute bastards...they just did not act as sheep should. Only those dogs who also worked on the farm were the only dogs that got anywhere as they were probably used to handling feral sheep. At the end of the day, the sheep were let out of the pen and they all ran up towards the hill back to graze. So true!!

Wally2020 I'd love to come down and have a play with the puppies Could I bring our girl with us for a bit of a play on your sheep as well?? Love the pics of Taz!! What colour were the parents to get the blue colouring? Our previous dog was more fawn in colour but we named him Blue.

I just checked out the Avenpart website and saw that there is a litter on the ground at the moment. (sigh!) I am just not in a position yet to get another dog, but probably will be by November. I may be giving you a call Wally2020 It's interesting what you state about the BC breeding these days and the fact that many of their natural herding ability has been "watered down" so to speak. I know a few people who call them "push button" dogs for this very reason. I once saw 4 kelpies collect and round up about 200 sheep as the farmer was checking for the fly blown sheep. The kelpies were acting as temporary fences while the farmer (and us!) walked through the flock to check the sheep. Being a "city slicker" this was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen. These dogs just kept a hold on all these sheep for about 1 hour without faulting.

My ultimate dream would be to travel to the US and do some of the courses over there and then perhaps spend some time at some of the wolf parks in Minnesota and Canada.

tim_m99, perhaps a good idea to enrol into one of the mentioned courses, that way your comments about "qualifications" would hold some merit. Being a good dog trainer is not just teaching a dog to sit and drop, but rather being able to correctly identify why the dog is not willing to sit or drop. This you can only do by studying animal pyschology and behaviour and is not something you just pick up from a mate. Further, it's not the style of training that is important, it's whether are "armed" with enough tricks up your sleeve to combat any problems that come your way. This means effectively knowing and practising many different methods of training, not just one. There are too many people out there who call themselves "trainers" after they have successfully taken their own dogs through the ranks only. These people can hold all the flashy titles achieved with their own dogs, but hand them a dog-aggressive dog with a helpless handler on the other end and these "dog trainers" run the other way. You will only learn the skills required to deal with these sorts of situations by attending a course run by experienced teachers...yes of course you need to practice and further your knowledge/skill set once you've finished the course, but it's a starting point. If that course comes with a "qualfication" tag, then better still. If you had a deadly disease, would you go to a witch doctor or would you go to a qualified doctor/surgeon??

Hi jesomil, I have spoken with Joe about getting one of his pups and he was most helpful...Paul McPhail stirs him up all the time about hia sales pitches which is why I made the comment. At this stage I am undecided as to which line would be suitable more suited , but I suppose the more I am looking, the more confused I am getting. I should probably stick to what I know. Yay, someone else who uses ducks!!! They are sensational to work with as they really teach the dog to steady and not go in so hard. I must admit, I fall into fits of laughter when they flap their wings and scare the s*%^t out of some dogs Have you entered into the duck trials?? We haven't, it looks so darn hard. Kavik, Warning...Herding is addictive!!

I did my course with NDTF back in 1999 and back then it was 12 months long. As Haven stated, it now comprises of different electives covering many different areas of dog training. The lecturers on the course are the likes of Steve Austin, Dr Robert Holmes and other specialists in their field. And yes I have heard that they are now taking OS students as well. If you can afford to, do both the Delta and NDTF! I'd like to eventually do the Delta course but I don't have $3000 to spare at this stage.

We are in Melbourne but we travel to where ever the sheep are Joe Spicer is certainly a very good handler and have watched him on a number of occassions with his dogs. He had one of his dogs up for auction at Casterton who was lovely. I agree, he's certainly a salesman! Our bitch is part Puds (mother's side) and she is soft but has attitude which works well when on tough sheep. I must be in the dark ages.. what happens in Geelong? Are you a member of the VHA? I think we mainly go down to Gippsland b/c that's where Paul McPhail is. I'd love to come to Geelong and see the action there.