Kelpie-i

Well they weren't lieing about using "positive" techniques. They just didn't mention which side of positive.

There are certainly many other dog training venues that offer this sort of service, not just ADT. And as "employees" of the NDTF as well (you all know who you are), you should also be recommending the other schools/clubs that are paying members of the organisation - not just ADT.

Haven, I think what Sidoney is trying to say is that there are many fantastic trainers out there, be they horse, dog or other, and just because one happens to bring his/her abilities out into the spotlight doesn't mean there aren't others out there with the same capabilities as those without 'tags'. To brand someone a 'whisperer' of some sort is a compliment to that person but for someone to brand themselves can be seen as self-promotion (not that there is anything wrong with this). I'm not into horses and don't know who Monty Roberts is and by the sounds of it you hold him in high esteem, however there are probably dozens of others doing the exact same work as Monty that we haven't even heard of because they are either deceased, modest or don't have a good publicist. Having said that, if someone with knowledge of their profession and skills can communicate these to others for want of better relationships with our pets, then that is fantastic and we raise our hats to them. Cesar Millan sounds very much like Bill Campbell, Patricia McConnell, Jan Fennell.................

I tend to agree with Sidoney. (thumbsup!)

Peanuts Sorry to butt in here, I've just been reading some of the many posts. If I read correctly, there was a question asked about how to control prey whilst not actually controlling it? Are you teaching a "not yet" or "wait" cue or something similar? I normally teach an "enough" command when working a dog in drive, this way he learns that he needs to give up the item and wait before it is reinstated. I only reinstate the item once the dog is sitting and anxiously waiting for the next round, then give him the "are you ready" cue to initialise the drive and finally the on-switch word. It may seem like a whole heap of words but the dogs soon learn what each mean. Would this be the correct procedure K9? It's been working for me.

Oonga, did you get to meet Hillary at the rotti club? He's the south african guy with Georgie. A number of his dogs have gained titles and he's a great person to speak to and get some valuable tips from. Enjoy your training!

LMBC Sometimes dogs have off days and set backs can often occur during the desensitisation process - you need to be aware of this and be prepared for them. Soon, the "good" days will start to outweigh the "bad" days and you'll see less and less of the fearful Winnie. As long as you continue to enjoy training, then Winnie will feed off this and as you say Winnie enjoys going to training, then at least that is one problem you don't need to worry about. Keep up the good work and don't give up!

Sas, LuvmyBC is already acquiring the services of qualified behaviourists and instructors and we are working with her every step of the way to help the situation. Winnie has improved since coming to training but she still has some way to go. Winnie's handler is receiving one-on-one assistance to ensure she is doing everything correctly. LMBC, my only advice to you is to NOT GIVE UP!. The process of desensitisation is a long one and can certainly vary from dog to dog and situation to situation. Changing the dog's feelings around whatever it sees as being scary is not easy and it takes an owner's persistence and confidence to make it work. As long as Winnie sees you as a competent leader, then she will learn to trust YOUR judgement.

Hi LL I think he said they were pups from 12 to 18 weeks (correct me if I'm wrong anybody).

I don't actually think it's directly linked to NILIF. NILIF is more a "earn your reward" system. It is used to have the dog sit before he eats or drop before you can be let in. But I get where you're coming from. The "all or nothing" was more about shaping ie. teaching the dog not to jump. Waiting for the dog to stop jumping and then rewarding it, or waiting for the dog to walk close by and rewarding it and so forth. You free shape a behaviour that a dog does naturally- without command or lure.

He was saying that some people (mostly males) cannot emit a "squeaky" praise voice - as he put it. So in the case where people have a naturally gruff voice, they can condition the dog to recognise the tone as praise. You would start in a low tone, saying "good dog/boy/girl" and giving a treat/pat, then you slowly increase the volume and lower the tone as you go so that eventually the dog is accepting a gruff "good boy" (or whatever you use) as praise. It's merely conditioning the dog to the tone. He seemed to be against clicker training, saying that this is one of the major causes for the drop in standards these days. He also stated the obvious (well at least to many) that purely positive training isn't exactly purely positive and that the use of negative reinforcement is regularly used in pp training. I think purely positive trainers should change their titles to "+/- trainers" - , sorry, just seeing the funny side of it. He calls his training method "all or nothing" which I think is actually free shaping.

Hey I was there last night too Loved his sense of humour and found the information he gave excellent! I particularly loved his impression of the sheltie owner - hillarious and also the way he shows the owners their "competition". I spent too much money on books and videos and ate too many sandwiches. An excellent night, I only wished I was able to see him in Sydney today.

I am counting down the days until May K9, cannot wait! ;)

What date is this on Herding Guy? Pippi and I would love to come and say hello to the sheep.

Interesting thread. I was once told that the only reason they accept certain breeds and not others is because the breeds chosen have a "switch off" temperament. I suppose this means that they are able to turn the dog off by a single command more easily whilst other breeds can remain a little stubborn. This is only what I was told

This sounds very similar to the one I currently have....given to me as a gift by a fantastic friend! I also had a Blackdog one but I found it too small for my purposes.

Sounds as thought he went to a "dud" school, however having said that, boarding and training should only be used to teach the dog basic obedience skills, nothing more -nothing less! It should not be used to try to eradicate the usual behavioural problems that the dogs exhibit at home, this unfortunately needs to be worked on by YOU with the guidance of a qualified behaviourist. Many people think that by sending their dog away for training that all the hard work will be done for them...this just isn't the case as while the dog may behave perfectly for the confident trainer training the dog, it will be exactly the same way he initially was with his owners after being sent home and sometimes with more issues to boot!. This is not to say that boarding and training isn't a good thing...there have been many dogs that have had a good head start with it, but keep in mind that you cannot possibly know the types of methods used and that as owners, you don't have the same authority that the trainers do- so the dog reverts back to being the way it was before the training. In your case, it sounds as thought the dog may have been spooked by things that went on at the kennels ie. dogs barking, noises etc. The best advise I can give at the moment is to ignore your dog when it is showing these behaviours and praise for behaviours you want and get the help of a behaviourist - pronto! There is no such thing as an easy way out when it comes to dogs and dog training - it's 100% hard work and determination on your part. Sorry if this isn't the answer you were after but it's the most truthful.

Probably a paper they needed to write for their Master's degrees

Weren't you wearing your yellow ones today??

Here's a snippet of an interesting article in the recent APDT newsletter written by Daniel Estep, Ph.D. and Suzanne Hetts, Ph.D. (whoever they are!!) www.animalbehaviorassociates.com. "There is no scientific evidence that dogs have traits like prey drives, pack drives or defensive drives. The studies of dog temperament that have been done have not identified such simple and all-inclusive traits. The definition of such traits have been vague and imprecise, somthing that is not tolerated in science." And "For example, what does it mean to say that a dog has a high prey drive? Perhaps is is very interested in chasing rabbits or fetching balls. does this also meant tha he will kill and eat cats if he can catch them? What about infant children? for the trait of prey drive to have any scientific meaning, it would need to be behaviourally defined in a very precise way." And last but not least... "The use of drive traits to explain behaviour often falls short and explains nothing. If we say that dogs that chase rabbits have a high prey drive, then any dog that has a high prey drive wil chase rabbits. This is circular reasoning and explains nothing. It simply is a description of what some dogs do. We would be better of simply describing the behaviour and not talking about drives at all" So here you have it everyone.....we've all got it wrong according to these schmucks. The next time your dog chases a cat, it's not because of his ancient instinctual urge for hunt but purely just a behaviour that your dog has decided to partake in, because the cat is there and it is something to do.

Herding Guy, yes that's the video. I have spoken about this technique with other behaviourists and they mentioned that this method should only be used on hard nerved dogs. And I do believe that it can help them cope better with corrections, whether it's tapping into drive or nerves. Aaaah, I know this.....mimic prey noises, become interesting, show interest in the item/ball/toy etc yourself - be greater than the sum of all parts!

K9, that's an interesting thought on this technique. I've only ever watched it on the DVD and they did mentioned that it was elevating the drive response...and in turn the dog learned to cope better with the corrections. Interesting.....

I have a set of videos by Joanne Plumb which shows drive and inducement training. It also shows how to teach dogs to "enjoy" corrections through drive training. Fascinating stuff! It's schutzhund based training too.

They carry a $5000 fine or 6 months imprisonment...they are certainly illegal! It's the e-collars that are restricted.

There are some lovely bandanas that you could use to tie around Jyra's neck....but this is what I've heard only.