Kelpie-i

I too don't like to be labelled.....it's what works and what creates a happy, confident and biddable dog!

Totally agree Erny, after everything else we do with our dogs like picking up poo, inspecting areas, squeezing anal glands - having the dog take food from your mouth is no biggin. Good for building up your immune system I say! Kavik, still waiting for those pics of bubs.......waiting waiting!

Hi guys, remember that all puppies need to chew, therefore you can stop them from chewing undesirable objects using what you will but you must give them desirable objects to chew. If you deny a puppy the right to chew, they will chew things when you are not around and their chewing stage may last longer compared to that of a puppy who was allowed to chew the right things. Pigs ears are fantastic as this keeps them occupied for hours, I also suggest a piece of lamb flap or raw hide chew - the square ones!

Sorry if the double quote thingy didn't work :D :D No, this is a Herding Guy thing, he's multi-skilled. Should have been a woman!

Oh stop being grossed out people, there is nothing wrong with spitting food An excellent method for keeping focus but as Erny mentioned, you need to teach the dog to catch first. I put food in both hands as well as in my mouth. I hide my hands behind my back and alternate between each hand and mouth - this keeps my dog guessing :D Of course I use things like cheese or cabana. Kavik your new fur baby has finally arrived....pics please!!!!!!!

Hi ViVien, So sorry to hear about Ginger. I hope that she turns up safe and sound very soon. Is that the new pup on your avatar? She's gorgous! Nothing like a new puppy to keep you occupied. With the puppy school, I would recommend you visit Four Paws K9 Training. They are located in Keilor Park and Diggers Rest. They have Saturday morning and Wednesday evenig classes for puppies and you can continue your training with them once your puppy graduates out of the puppy class. The instructors are accredited and there are also certified behaviourists there as well. Good luck and I do really hope you find your Ginger!

Hi ViVien, So sorry to hear about Ginger. I hope that she turns up safe and sound very soon. Is that the new pup on your avatar? She's gorgous! Nothing like a new puppy to keep you occupied. With the puppy school, I would recommend you visit Four Paws K9 Training. They are located in Keilor Park and Diggers Rest. They have Saturday morning and Wednesday evenig classes for puppies and you can continue your training with them once your puppy graduates out of the puppy class. The instructors are accredited and there are also certified behaviourists there as well. Good luck and I do really hope you find your Ginger!

Our pup has his half hour of frenzy each night. He terrorises the other dogs until one of them puts him in his place. None better trainer than another dog I reckon :D I use the crate but I do not use it for sin-binning. He goes in there to sleep or play on his own accord and I keep the door open so that he can go in and out as he pleases. The only time I shut the door is when at night time. Puppies will try to get away with what they can. Setting clear boundaries and sticking to them is your best defense against possible problems. If you don't want him to do something, then don't ever let him. The minute you give in, he's won! Consistency is the key and they will quickly learn what is allowed and what is not. Have fun!

Okay, I'm going to off into a small tangent here if I may ...... I would say that 9 out of 10 of us don't mind chomping on a Big Mac or even a packet of chips - some of us might even eat these things every day without thinking about they're going to affect our health! If you ask me, these foods contain far more crap in them than cabanossi, yet we still eat them and they don't kill us unless we were to eat them all day-everyday!. Someone previously mentioned sodium or salt - everythng contains salt as it is the cheapest and most readily available form of preservative available to the manufacturers. If you didn't think canned dog food or kibble contained salt - think again! Same with cabanossi - whilst it's probably not the most nutritious treat for dogs, that exactly what it is - a treat! Used in small quantities for training it is harmless and if your dog likes it then why not! Do you really know what goes into that $140 packet of "complete diet" kibble that most readily feed to their dogs? Far worse ingredients than in cabanossi!

Put a cat bell around her collar - so that way when she stirs at night, you'll hear it. Suzyq77 - where did you get the flashing signature thingies from??

Herding Guy don't you dare go corrupting my puppy - I've already named him - "Big Kev" Wally, we currently have a Beloka/Puds line and like HG's girl, ours is a little nervy but gutsy as well. She's showing some really good potential when backing in the race. My new puppy will probably bounce off walls by the sounds of things :rolleyes:

Michael thanks heaps for those dates and info. When is the Euroa one again?? Are you going to Casterton?? sorry for the 20 questions..

Oh Puleease - you'll be outdone this time when our girl brings home the goods at Casterton. Wally2020, have you got a website or number for the Yard Dog Association? It would be good to have dates.

Cheeky Cannot wait for the City Slicker Yard Trials - yeeehaw

I don't know about other states but there are yard trials here in Vic at certain locations. Pity they are all so far out. A good place to see some excellent skills being put to the test is at Casterton during the Queens Birthday long weekend. It's known as the Casterton Kelpie Muster but there are BCs there as well. On the Sunday before the Auctions they show off each dog that is up for sale. You get to see all the yard work as well as truck work etc. Some of the dogs blow your mind with their skill. Dave, perhaps you'll have to organise some yard trial days very soon (grin)

I would like to see a 3 sheep trial myself.

ML it is unfortunate that you feel that way, however having owned and still do own, Australian Working Kelpies, I make my statement based on experience. A Kelpie IS bred to think for itself, this is what they are and this is what they will always be like, unless people start to breed this trait out of them. The difference between the two breeds is very evident in field trials and I believe to think otherwise is narrow minded in itself. I say this with all respect to both breeds. All the power to those on this board who are striving to breed the "best of both worlds", however there are some individual dogs (not breeds) that are better suited to a rural working environment and will never make good "city" dogs. I see them in the training centre each week with their helpless owners - this is reality and certainly not a laughing matter. What I do find funny is people who call other people narrow minded - yet are the epitome of the word themselves. Unless of course you are prepared to share your views on the 2 different breeds. Now are you talking working as in "real working" or working as in "trialling" as there is difference between the two?

It's back!!!

Please keep this civil so that everyone can enjoy it if they so wish. ML, take a chill pill - I was only joking! I have certainly seen the difference between the BC and Kelpies working (not that I work with BCs, but just what I've seen in trials and in obedience). I suppose I like the spunk of the kelpie and the fact that it can think for itself (which can have both it's negative and positive side to it). HG, you'll have to wait until my little champion is all grown up and ready to kick his/her father's butt!!!

I would be all for city trials AND country trials - and everybody should be allowed to attend either! I found the country people to be extremely friendly and full of advice at country trials- but it certainly doesn't remove the competitiveness from them - I would assume city slickers to be the same. There are plenty of dogs that already fit the "suburban trialler" tag- no need to breed for them, however I feel this would be inevitable if city herding became popular. What would they breed for I wonder??? A dog that is highly sociable, doesn't shed, great working abiltiies, good with children and doesn't need training.....(sorry being sarcastic!)

Nothing wrong with that :rolleyes:

Hi Judith First things first, do a google search for NILIF and commence following the program with both dogs immediately. Secondly, get your boy into obedience asap! Keeping him chained up is not going to solve your problem, in fact it will make it worse as his frustrations become pent up and he will be like an explosion when unchained. Until you're leadership is sorted out, I suggest that he is fed, patted, given attention etc, first but ONLY if he is made to work for it first. This is where NILIF (Nothing In LIfe Is Free) comes into it. He is obviously a lot of dog with a lot of attitude who needs a firm owner who is not going to take his rubbish. I strongly suggest regular professional obedience training and upkeep of NILIF to bring him down the pack. Have you thought about doing a dog sport with him ie. agility, flyball etc, something that will burn up that hard wired instinct to work. Some dogs are just not meant to be back yard dogs. They need to work and when not given an outlet, can become quite aggressive and destructive. Unfortunately, there is no quick miracle fix Judith, if this is what you are looking for. It's a whole lot of hard work and commitment. You were obviously lucky with the female but this is the mistake people make in thinking that all dogs of the same breed will have the same temperament. Good Luck!

The problem here is unfortunately you! With limited information, allow me to explain what may be happening.... It's quite evident that you've had your female dog for much longer and have not changed the way you interact with her even with the addition of a new dog. Therefore you are treating your female as thought she were top dog ie. perhaps letting her come in more, getting pats first, feeding first etc. If this is the case then you are encouraging the squabbles to occur, unintentionally of course. It's also quite evident that your new dog feels he should be top dog (and perhaps rightly so) so you need to start recognising that your male dog is probably top dog and therefore should be treated as such. At 7 months he is now coming into sexual maturity and is no longer a pup. As humans, we always favour the dog we've owned the longest or the weakling etc. In dog's world, this is not the case as only the stronger, more dominant dog should be favoured. Go with the flow and start patting your male dog first, feed him first etc and I bet you'll start seeing changes in the behaviour. What you'll also need to do is sharpen up your leadership skills so that your male dog starts to respect you as a leader of the pack. I suggest you start a NILIF program asap with both dogs.

Agree, but this is the problem with buzz words. They can be used to interpret anything and the general public are none the wiser. Perhaps this club actually does believe they ARE a "positive" club and don't know any better - scary thought!

I think some of you are getting mixed up here. "Positive training" has become such a buzz word that most people really don't know what it means. There are 4 quadrants of methodology in dog training. Within that quadrant there are two types of "positive" methods. Positive reinforcement and Positive punishment. The other 2 parts of the quadrant are negative reinfocement and negaive punishement. But we'll concentrate on the word "positive". In dog training, the word "positive" doesn't mean "good" or anything like that that some people may believe it does....it basically means "to give". Hence, positive reinforcement is "to give a reinforcer" ie. treat, praise to the dog to encourage behaviour and positive punishment is "to give a punisher" ie. growl, correction to discourage behaviour. BOTH are POSITIVE methods! So, in essence, when this school advertised "positive" methods, they were not, in fact, false advertising. They just didn't state which side of positive they used. What you should be asking is not whether this school or club uses "positive" methods but rather which end of positive do they concentrate on the most.