Kelpie-i

Not officially, I saw you at Welshpool with your gorgeous boy and fell in love with him. I was a little shy to introduce myself. However you did tell me in a previous thread about him and the fact that he is Go-Getta line which is what I was contemplating getting before I ended up with a Beloka/Futura lineage dog. Bloody Beloka lines!!!

Kavik, if it makes you feel better, you're certainly not alone!!

K9 this is most certainly the case in many situations, however how do we know for sure that the original diagnosis was the correct one? Which is why I don't think boarding/training works for cases of aggression. K9, the fact that MsJames has been given a number of different diagnoses about her dog's problem and each with their differing methods to employ is a real concern. Here we are telling her to stick with it and to not give up, but which one of those many diagnosis and methods is actually the correct one and which one should she stick with? This is what I am driving at. If sound diagnosis and advice is provided and the owner is either too impatient or does not employ the advice given, then that is one thing, but to hear conflicting information and not know which one is the right one must be extremely difficult for the owner.

Kavik I have yet to meet a working bred kelpie who likes unfamiliar dogs...although I'm sure there are some out there. I think Jesomil's kelpie is good around other dogs, but then again most of the dogs from the Go-Getta lines are from what I see. Jesomil, please feel free to correct/add to this.

Ooops, my bad!

My word it is EXTREMELY common with kelpies and other herding breeds. Most of these working dogs are born on farms which means very limited socialisation and exposure to other things. The only other dogs and humans they see are those they have grown up with. Also, (as was discussed in another thread), "working" bred kelpies and other herding breeds have a genetic tendency for aggression which is what is required when they work, so some of this aggression is due to this. Most working kelpies I've met can also be quite "skittish" around new things -this is probably because most farmers choose to breed from the more "popoular" working lines which carry this trait. Cosmolo and Erny, I am a little concerned about your statements and whilst K9 agrees with you both, the major concern here is whether the initial trainer has actually diagnosed the dog correctly and has applied the correct technique. When it comes to teaching obedience tricks, there is certainly more than one way to skin a cat, however when dealing with aggression and severe behavioural problems, we don't have the luxury of this, worse still if the methodology/technique applied is not the correct one, the problem will worsen. Correct Enry, too many inexperienced or "green" trainers out there giving advice.

Now why doesn't that surprise me!!! Again no surprises there!! Was the trainer using correction based techniques for this?? Let me guess... some say it's fear based, others say it's dominance based and others say it's handler based. MsJames, aggression stemming from poor socialisation can be curbed (to a degree) with the correct methods and you should start seeing results early in the piece, however aggression that is genetic based cannot! In your case, I feel you may have a mixture of both - however this is a just a "guess" given that I don't know your dog nor the dog's history. Further, improper diagnosis and handling can compound the problem.

Kavik, I must be losing my marbles....where is the kelpie thread...can't find it?

K9 sorry to jump in here..... luvworkingdogs, is your kelpie a working bred kelpie? This will make all the difference to the answer.

Correct Rom, the instinctive motivation is survival. In order to survive, a predator (in this case the dog) needs to hunt, hence prey drive which is then modified by either revolution or man to suit whatever job we required from the dog.

Hey great question and answers..... Put quite simply the dogs see it as this (and I refer to herding breeds only!!): Training in drive = games & fun/drive satisfaction Herding = work/instinct satisfaction The two are different and we should remember not to confuse drives with working instinct.

Rigged I say!! SM, just remember to keep a watchful eye on Minty's well being.

Sorry SM...I'll be nice to you from now on...I promise!! LOL!

Erny, unfortunately it's not that kind of muster. It's more a celebration of the kelpie at the birthplace of the Kelpie. It's held over the Queens Birthday long weekend and on the Saturday they have a street parade and then lots of competitions ie. Mutton mayhen, Kelpie hill climb and Kelpie high jump etc and a Kelpie ball at night. Tasha came third at the hill climb last year. They also have a stockman's challenge which is sheep work on horseback and your kelpie, of course - I love watching this. On Sunday, they have the working dog auctions where you get to see all of the dogs up for auction in action before the auction starts. Some of them are truly amazing and the prices some of the dogs sell for is amazing. BTW, you don't need to be a kelpie owner to go.

Okay Kelpie people, it's nearly that time of year to get ya Driza's out of the shed and shake out the cobbies, polish ya Blundies, muster up ya Kelpies and head on down to Casterton for the annual Kelpie Muster. Who here is going?? Perhaps we can meet up for a Kelpie-chino??

Jesomil, I cannot answer that as I have NFI! They do hand out ribbons and trophies etc but I cannot remember who they are sponsored by and if the trial is affiliated with WKC or other body.

Yep both yard and utility. I'm not sure where to find the info....it's just something that Paul McPhail told us about a few years ago and we decided to go. Didn't get there this year though. If you're interested, I could try and find out who runs it and if there's any info.

Jesomil, the Port Albert trials are held during Easter each year. Port Albert is about half hour drive from Welshpool. You can either "rough it out" by camping on the grounds or you can book a motel in Welshpool (but you need to book in early). The sheep used for those trials are wild sheep (taken from the hills nearby). They only see dogs and humans once a year and are absolute bastards. Most "dogged" sheep follow humans as you know, these ones give you a wide berth as well as the dog. They kick and charge at the dogs constantly and we saw many a good dog shut down during the trials. We entered our Beloka girl into the Puppies event (of all things) and boy did she get battered. Lucky for us (and her) she came away un-scathed and still willing to work sheep. Given that I now have a very forceful young lad, who has quite a presence on sheep, I think I may give him a go next year.

Hear hear Jesomil......separates the men from the boys!

I have watched both and I must say that Schutzhund dogs look a lot happier doing what they do.

Yaaay, Congratulations SM and Cash (Martycash!!!! ) and Minty. If you think those sheep were testy....wait till you get to the Port Albert trials....those sheep a ferals and really give the dogs a run for their money! Not for the faint hearted dog.

Congratulations to everyone who scored their Instinct Test on Saturday. I have one burning question though......what does it actually mean?

Aeroguard.....OMG that stuff is toxic!! Do NOT use Aeroguard to stop your puppy from nipping. You're better off with a spray of water from a water bottle or other techniques/methods as pointed out by Cosmolo.

Mil, my question to you is how many times did you (if you did) try to comfort your pup whenever he showed the fearful behaviour? Did you use a concerned voice like "what's wrong?? It's okay? Pat, pat, stroke, stroke etc etc.