Kelpie-i

Joanne Plumb states "1000 repetitions" of on-lead recalls before you venture off lead.

Wow Yarrowfell, I can't believe you found this thread...seems like ages ago. I simply started by gaining his interest in the rope toy with the help of food (since this is the only thing he drove for). I tied a piece of chicken around the rope and used a clicker to mark and treat each time he showed an interest. The process was slow but eventually he learned to pick up the rope without the food tied to it. The next step was for him to keep the rope toy in his mouth for longer periods of time, again clicking and treating for this. The last step was for him to start to bring it towards me using the same technique. It was a case of 90% free shaping, 5% guiding and 5% compulsion. Good luck. BTW, for those of you who are interested, the same pug is coming over for a few weeks into boarding so it will be interesting to see if he remembers any of it. Will take the video camera this time - just in case!!

I must admit that I haven't heard anything amazing about his techniques either from others who have seen him in action. Luke is an animal wrangler on the set of TV commercials and some movies - now there's a job I'd love to have!!

I use the Quickdraw brand of treat pouch....absolutely love it. I have used the Glad zip-lock bag in the pockets but I kept forgetting to remove them. I once washed half a bag of cut up devon treats in the washing machine

Gottalovealab my wording sucks more Slightly OT but flavoured around this topic, there was a study on the hippopotamus and its origins and it seems that both the hippo and whales actually derived from the same prehistoric mammal which means that they are both linked. Now whilst I have no interest in hippos (although I love all creatures with a soft spot for whales), it certainly adds some insight into this topic and to what Erny has mentioned. Erny, do you believe that this Canis geno would have been a prehistoric type animal which then "branched" off into the various canis species? Yes I too love wolves.....so much so that in my previous house, I had a whole room dedicated to the wolf. I would still love to believe that the wolf is the ancestor of my favourite animal, however the fact that the Jackal is very similar to the dog in many ways is way too intriguing to just shove to the side.

Pinnacle dts, yes I have this book but found it a little difficult to follow. ;) I think Coppinger also stated that we cannot be sure that dog evolved from the wolf and is still involved with this research. Again, there was an extremely interesting documentary on Foxtel (a couple of years ago) with Ray Coppinger about this. I'll have to dredge it up and re-watch it. If anyone ever gets the chance to go the USA, there is a wolf park in Indiannapolis who runs regular 3 day workshops which include theories on the domestication of dogs. Ray Coppinger sometimes lectures these workshops. My OH and I are planning on taking this trip next year. If anyone here has already been and attended the workshop....pls fill us in!!

BL, we own Kelpies and often get involved in the Kelpie High Jump sport. - very different to agility jumping may I add. Our female kelpie has managed 8ft but the current record is held by a Kelpie called Riley who has repeatedly jumped 10ft!!

I saw these same characteristics in a previous boss I had at work. Everyone feared him and we certainly did not see him as a leader, more so a bully. My intepretation of a leader is the one they all follow!!

Over the years of doing private consults, I have seen some patterns emerging with regards to this: 1. Rescued dogs are most likely to suffer from SA compared to non-rescued dogs. 2. Staffies (for some reason) carry this tendency. Add the two together and this is exactly the sort of behaviour I have come accross many times. Whilst you wait to see your behaviourist, I suggest you give the dog plenty of mental stimulation and exercise to tire him out each day. Spread the responsibility of this as well as the feeding/caring as Erny suggested to other members of the family. Also, try not to give him any attention when he's whimpering/crying as by doing so, you are reinforcing this behaviour.

Just further to my thread (above)....is it possible that perhaps our domestic dog did derive from the Jackal??? Here is an interesting snippet from a website (http://www.yptenc.org.uk/docs/factsheets/animal_facts/jackal.html) It certainly makes me think that perhaps....just maybe our dog IS actually a domesticated Jackal. ETA: Or that some breeds of dogs derive from wolves and others from Jackals???

I'm really enjoying this thread... I have a question which has been plagueing me for sometime. A colleague of mine is adamant that the wolf is not actually the ancestor of domestic dogs but rather the jackal is. This is due to certain characteristic and behaviours of the Jackal that are frightingly similar to those of dogs ie. their loose pack and hunting for individual purposes rather than for the pack etc. I've always argued with him about this but would like to know what you guys think?

Am, I was not saying that DNA similarities carry the behavioural similarities - quite the contrary. I was merely trying to say what you stated in your first sentence above, however you put it a little more eloquently. There was documentary on Foxtel a little while ago about feral dogs who roam the streets of Italy (cannot remember where exactly). There was about 9 or so of them who had formed a pack and had been living as such for years. They would scavenge around the various eateries and cafes, some had even learned to perform tricks ie. shake hands or rollover etc for food. A family decided to take one of the dogs (it looked like an Aussie Shepx or B/collie x) into their home as they had grown fond ot if. They bathed it, fed it, bought it a new collar etc. The film crew filmed this dog with his "adopted" family for a few weeks and the dog seemed to sulk and was very uninterested. Not sure how long after, but the dog managed to escape and reunited itself with the pack. The most interesting part of this was the pack, upon seeing him wearing a collar, proceeded to chew the collar off him. The end of the documentary sees the dogs hanging around a church where a town celebration was taking place with hundreds of people in attendance - once again the dogs were scavenging for food and pats but looked extremely happy. My observation was that whilst they ran in a pack, each dog scavenged for food individually and funnily enough, there was no mention of a hierarchy during the entire documentary.

Drives.....those complicated yet exciting behaviours that dogs have and are the difference between a highly trainable and a not so highly trainable dog, depending on what you are wanting to achieve of course!! Someone from this forum once PM'd me a very interesting article on Drives and Modes. I cannot remember the entire thing as it was almost 20 pages long and this was about a year go when I read it, but it basically stated that there are only 3 main drives in a dog: Pack, Prey and Defence. What we term as food, toy or fight drive are actually "Modes of Drives". These Modes will only occur through shaping or training the dog to want/enjoy them. This means that whilst you may have a dog who has high prey drive, it may not necessarily chase a ball- well this is how I understood it. Personally, I love a dog who drives for anything which is why I chose Kelpies.....little buggers will stop at nothing to play tug, chase a frisbee, work sheep, take treats or play fetch - how do they do find the time to take an afternoon nap? High drive or high mode? These are behaviours that I instilled in them as pups and taught them to enjoy. I wanted them to do all these things so I used their naturally high drives to create the modes.

Hello Everyone We have now set another date for the Herding Clinic in Diggers Rest. Details are: Sunday 12th August 2007 9.00am to 4.30pm $70 per dog/per handler If you are interested in attending, please check out the website below or PM me. Hopefully this time the weather will allow us to go ahead!! Thanks

RM, my GSD nose punches things and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is pretty much a GSD trait as I have talked to many GSD owners who say the same thing. Am, I think you're spot on when you say that we are better off studying a pack of wild dogs as opposed to wolves to find our answers to the "pack" questions. Wolves and dogs, whilst closely related by DNA (BTW, did you know that the Greyhound carries 99% wolf DNA?), are two different animals these days. The wolf, from what I've read and watched on doco's, does adhere to a very strict pack structure which I don't believe to be very flexible. Each member of the pack has a purpose (or job) in assisting in the survival of the pack. Here are my thoughts on the differences: Wolves live in a pack and in order to survive and multiply they need to work as a team with each member serving a purpose which is why the strict hierarchy is necessary. Unlike dogs, wolves are not fed, housed and nurtered by humans - they must do this for themselves. Dogs, on the other hand, are forced into a situation where there may be other dogs within the family. Their main aim here is not survival of the pack, but rather survival of themselves as individuals. Therefore whilst they do form a pack (as instinct tells them to), the rules are different which is why the structure is so fluid. There may sometimes be a more dominant dog within the pack who other dogs may keep away from, but this is merely an individual personality, pretty much like the bully work colleague. With all that said, it is imperative that humans, as guardians of dogs, act as a leader to keep the peace within the pack so that each dog co-exists mutually. There will be resources that each dog will want and perhaps fight over so it is up to the human to ensure that this resource is controlled. As owner of 4 dogs, the eldest of the group who is the 14 yr GSD is clearly the one everyone else is scared of, but he will allow the others to have the resource once he's finished or if he doesn't feel he wants it. However, if he wants it and one of the other dogs has it, he will bully until he gets it or the others may just simply give it up. The same goes for each other dog and their own resources. At any other time, I don't normally see a clear cut hierarchy, just 4 dogs co-existing together with myself as the person they look up to for guidance.

Isn't Daddy just gorgeous!! I also like Popeye, also a pitbull but with one eye!

It's not "brand" new but relatively new. You'll probably find some vets may be reluctant to use it as they may miss out on an extra consultation fee. The vaccination is definitely as good as it sounds and enables you to get the pups out and about for socialisation purposes earlier and without reservation.

Agree with Erny.... foundation agility is a good way to assist a timid dog. Do let us know how you go with K9 and implement the suggestions given to you by both Erny and PF - good advice!!

AB, as long as the other two dogs are up to date with their vaccinations, your pup is fine around them. Since no-one has mentioned it, you need to be aware of your pups critical socialisation period which is the first 16 weeks of her life. This is the time when you need to be socialising your pup to all things wordly (with prudence of course). Your pup needs many and varied experiences outside his home ie. meeting people, children, cars, buses, other dogs (who are vaccinated) etc etc etc. Socialisation at this age is not a luxury, it is crucial!! Whilst I am not a vet or a vet nurse, I have many close friends who are and know for a fact that Parvo is also an airborne disease which means you cannot see it, smell it or touch it. The chances of a bird landing in your backyard carrying parvo is nearly as high as your pup coming across infected faeces at an off lead park. If you are not enrolled in a puppy preshcool of some sort, then get cracking. Don't wrap your pup in cotton wool but on the flip side, be prudent with where you take her. BTW, there is another vaccine called "Protec" which is a series of 2 vaccines and renders the pup fully covered after the 2nd vaccination. Some vets are happy to administer this new vaccination, others may not.

I've spoken with his Melbourne off-sider (Haans, I think his name is) sometime ago and was not at all impressed by some of the things he was saying. There have been many people who have been very disappointed with the methods and advice given by his franchisees.

Amy Rose, if you're looking for some private lessons, we can accommodate. We do them at the beautiful Kepala grounds! Check out the website and pls PM me if you're interested.

I've probably stuff up the double quote thing.....how many years on this forum and I still cannot double quote Anyway back on track......Miszka, I think Pinnacle has quoted this from someone else, therefore the person who originally wrote this needs to check their facts.

Pinnacle dts, you sound exactly as I did many, many years ago when I knew nothing about e-collars and their workings. I too referred to them as "shock" collars and often made statements about dogs being "fried" etc etc. I knew no better and made a very incorrect assumption and judgement on something I hadn't bother to research. My curiosity got the better of me and I then began to explore the e-collar's proper usage in today's world and its successes. Since then, I have come to respect the e-collar for the tool it is and have seen how handy it be for serious problems like stock chasing. I have witnessed a small success from your short time on DOL however, and that is that you have at least commenced terming it "e-collar" as opposed to "shock" collar. This is progress!!!

From the sounds of it, it's pretty much a gamble each way. Tapferhund, whislt I respect Robert Holmes for his knowledge and many years experience in the field, on many occassions he has given the same advice/program to clients that trainers have also given. So in essence, the only difference here is about $300 of someone's hard-earned. Am, great post as always ....IMO, the behaviourist (whichever you choose) should have solid knowledge of BOTH dog training and learning principles as well as sound knowledge on behaviour AND above all - their analysis should make sense. You should be able to see some improvement (or at least the first signs thereof) during the first consulation.

I too have referred to a vet where the problem was believed to be medical but I must admit, I haven't had too many of these. However, if the problems are serious, I will always recommend a full vet check up to rule out anything medical related first as a safeguard.