Kelpie-i

This is true LL although I am not too sure where you are pointing here. By watching our dogs we can try to ascertain what is of high value to them but unless we learn to walk on all fours and master the art of barking, our reward offerings will only ever be limited to that which is humanised ie. a rope toy, a ball, a pat, a piece of liver treat or release from an ear pinch!!

Arya, were the articles written by Michael Tucker?? The last few I read were written by him. If so, he's been around for over 50 years and unfortunately his techniques have not evolved over that time. He's very "old school" and shuns anything that remotely points to motivational or "positive" style training of today. Sad really It's all aversives and "make the dog do it" type of mentality.

I guess this is one of the reasons why we are called the "Lucky Country" Thanks for sharing this with us Erny!

I think the "calm, assertive" notion is derived from mimicing the alpha wolf. A true alpha is calm and assertive which is the way the pack is controlled and hence holds respect. Myszka is correct in saying that not everyone can mimic this and therefore this is when most behaviour problems can occur. I provide many in-home consults and I can honestly say that 95% of behavioural problems I see stem from some sort of lack of leadership and guidance on the owner's behalf. The remainder comes from either lack of training/socialisation, bad experiences and even some medical related. I love watching Cesar and find his "teachings" (not necesarily all of his techniques) amazing.

Trialling your own dogs, unfortunately, means nothing. Just because the instructor has trialled dogs doesn't mean he/she understands the psychology of a dog and how they learn. Some instructors train others to train their dog as they would their own; meaning they have a "one size fits all" approach. Which is unfortunate as all dogs have individual personalities. If the instructors at my school turned a blind eye to something like this, they'd be shown the front door - with or without trialling experience! I'm sorry to hear of your experience and I hope that your dog is back to normal in no time.

Certainly not impossible to see a non-herding breed of dog herding. After all, herding is shaped from the primitive instinct to hunt and Janba put it very nicely.

William Campbell's "Behaviour Problems in Dogs" is very good and is quite heavy on Leadership.

PDTS, I'm with you regarding when we give the command. I don't normally label the action until the dog is confidently giving it to me with signals first. I suppose I do this mainly to ensure that the dog knows exactly where it has to be before putting a name to the action. I don't think there is a right or wrong way, mainly just the way people are taught and their beliefs.....and what works! Personally, I don't like to "name the baby before it's born" (good ole' Brenda Aloff saying ) and am see the huge advantages this has, especially with novice handlers as this is a good way to stop them over commanding the dog. Ie. it stops all the "sit, sit sit sit sit" stuff. Marking and shaping are also something we do a lot of (at school), especially with heeling and recall. Regarding the feeding, I suppose if you have a fit, food driven dog then you could use extra treats on top of their normal meal, on the other hand if you have an overweight dog, then I would portion this as part of their meal. Non food driven dogs can also be taught to successfully drive for food, so I don't believe anyone anymore who says their dog doesn't drive for food. Yes love this technique for teaching heel. It's especially good for young pups and creates beautiful focus.

A very dear friend of mine who has been breeding Rotties for many years told me you need to wait about 7 years. However the only way around this is if you disinfect the ENTIRE home and garden with a particular disinfectant. I think White King is the only supermarket bleach which carries the enzyme to kill the parvo virus. You will need to use this around your entire backyard as well....yes it will kill all of your grass and plants!! If you really want another dog best to get an older pup that has already had all it's vaccinations ie. 5-6 months old.

This is no longer puppy mouthing but a leadership problem brewing. He is "demanding" you to continue patting him and also demanding attention from you by biting your hand. If he is not enrolled into a good obedience school, do it now and also google NILIF, which stands for Nothing In Life Is Free, for a good simple program to assist with leadership.

We use lure methods all the time - this is what we base all of our initial teaching with at school. Great for shaping more complex skills or even just teaching the dog a simple sit. I too have found that dogs respond more readily and learn quicker with this method and what's best....it teaches hand signals from the get go. Having said that, I still see a need for some "guide show place" techniques since a downfall of only using lures makes the dog resistent to touching/placing which can become a problem with some everyday things like going to the vet. The other problem is that people don't remove the lures quickly enough and this is when luring turns into bribing. The dog only does it when the owner has food. I believe the lure should be phased out after approx 10 repetitions or when the dog starts to show signs of knowing the exercise.

PTS for becoming blind and deaf. Unless your dog is suffering in severe pain and discomfort, I would not have him PTS. This is definitely your decision in the end, but not a valid reason to end a life just yet.

jaybeece, like I said in my earlier post, it's a case of "preference".

Ayra, certainly a cause for good debate. I don't know about you, but I have met many people that, no matter what you do and say - talk to the cows come home about motivational praise and enthusiasm.....just don't have get it, have it, nor the inclination to even pretend to want to have it when training their dogs. Not everyone is wired the same and believe it or not, there are some who are very shy and reserved and actually become very embarrased when in a class situation to lavishly praise and reward their dogs. I currently have a young client who suffers panic attacks and will totally lose it if you approach her to see how she's going. She usually stays right away from the group and is extremely quiet - yet she tries very hard....anyway, you get what I mean. When all else fails and short of me taking the dogs on myself, the clicker has always come to the rescue. For these people it is far easier to click and treat quietly, than to try to remember to use their marker word in one tone and then praise with another. I am with Kavik on this one as you can certainly achieve outstanding results with a clicker - it's all in the application and, in all honesty, how much the user really knows about the clicker and it's full potential. It is definitely not designed for just basic skills. Don't get me wrong, I use marker words all the time and in a normal class situation prefer not to use clickers. I will, however, recommend it to those I feel will benefit from it.

I'm happy share my world with Conformation breeders and Breed standards as long as they keep their opinions and don't bad-mouth their working cousins.

There is no right or wrong way to use a clicker, whether you use it to mark the behaviour or as a release at the end of an exercise. Whichever way you use it, you must be consistent with it. I use a clicker all the time, especially with my youngest boy who I am doing a lot of foundation work with (not agility foundation). I make a point to use a marker word as well therefore he is conditioned to both. So if I don't have my clicker, the Yes word works just as well (but not AS well as the clicker). Cosmolo is correct that setting your criteria and rewarding for no less is the only way to get the behaviour you desire in whatever you may be training. It's when we become complacent that we steer away from our criteria and end up with problems, regardless of which method or tool we use. I'm going to disagree somewhat here Arya. I offer a Boarding/Training service and therefore have worked with hundreds of dogs over the years. I have used a clicker for 95% of those dogs with absolutely no problems and with much success. The dogs learn soooo much quicker with the clicker, especially when you are given a very short time span to teach them in some cases. The only dogs I found did not respond to a clicker were those dogs with absolutely no food or toy drive and those dogs who where extremely timid/frightful that they jumped at the sound of the clicker. Otherwise, no problems whatsoever. I also use a clicker with aggression cases and find it extremely useful for handlers who have no voice (enthusiasm) when training. I think the better statement to make here is that it's not the case of whether or not the clicker is suited to all, it's more the case of whether it is preferred. Downside, it can make you become lazy to praise, but some dogs couldn't give 2 cahoots about pats especially when the owner is dishing out pats every 5 mins for nothing.

Apologies Cosmolo, didn't realise you serviced that area as well.

I don't believe that we can actually modify behaviour that's genetic, but rather disguise it with other behaviours. Anything that's genetic is pretty much hard wired and impossible to modify IMO. I like to term this as “bandage” training, others may call it "building block" training. It's pretty much like wrapping a tone of tape over a leaky hose. The weakness will always remain deep in the system but is hidden under all the layers of continuous training, desensitisation and counter-conditioning work which needs to be ongoing for the rest of the dog's life.

WMR, Look no further than Erny on this forum. I believe she travels to the Mornington Peninsula (pls correct me if I'm wrong Erny!!) and can certainly "walk the walk".

LP, tell them that you are a very patient person and that if they feel they need their own space by way of secluding themselves in the closet, that you fully understand and support them for that. However proceed to tell them that secluding themselves in the closet is only going to trap all the inner emotions and supress the good sharkhra (sp?) energy that may have otherwise been free to ciriculate and mix in with the positive feng shui of the room.

Sidoney, my apologies if I misread. BTW, great post and I understand your sentiments.

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Sidoney, it's not a blanket statement, it's the truth. Only a small number of people actually acquire dogs for the sole purpose of working or training them (giving them a purpose) compared to the rest of society. You said it yourself: All of the above is not treating a dog as a dog.

The "role" of dogs has changed dramatically over the last 30 or so years. The less we treat them as dogs, the more problems we will have, regardless of how much knowledge we possess.

Would depend on the pup's ability and time taken to bounce back if startled by something new. This would tell me how sound his nerves were. You can always build on sound nerves. Hope that makes sense....doped up on pain killers at the mo.....