Kelpie-i

Interesting thread, however I must admit to not having read all of the posts - lack of time....sorry! Cosmolo, totally agree with you. Many years ago I was having some email contact with the well known behaviourist Bill Campbell from the US (I don't normally name drop but with someone of Bill's calibre....well ). He is a lovely man who is extremely knowledgeable and wise. He stated in one of his emails to me that when working with rescue dogs....(not verbatim)... it is a total waste of time trying to figure out what caused the dog to act the way it does, best to spend your energies on working with and rectifying the problem. Tonymc, whilst some have 'attacked' you for your post, I too have come across, in my line of business, those who have rescued dogs and almost always seem to emanate some sort of personal gratification in saying that they rescued a dog that was abused. It seems to be the natural human instinct to mother and protect one that is less fortunate than us. Two of my dogs are rescues and whilst I could make excuses for their behaviour when they initially came to me, so many years down the track....there are no excuses to be made anymore. Any part of their bad behaviour is now my fault entirely!

Depends on your style of training!!! None of the options are incorrect. This is but one method, albeit one that is being done away with by many trainers these days. It also depends on what you are training the dog for and the type of reliability you require. I also believe that the command should always be given in a pleasant/neutral voice, regardless of whether your correction was physical or verbal. I cannot stand "growling" commands at dogs...very Khoehler.

Great article, just what the Doctor ordered!

:D No, not with this little bugger........it was his father who came 2nd in this competion clearing 9ft, so the genetics are certainly there. Our bitch Tasha has been entered many times and has managed 7.5ft jump.......if anything I would have thought she'd be the problem jumper not Gabe since he's lanky and clumsy. Didn't he prove me wrong!!!

Wow Jesomil, did you take photos? Now that I would have liked to see.....the balancing kelpie Imagine how embarrassing it was for me, a dog trainer with a dog who is a fence jumper. He now stands approx 25 metres away from the fence and won't go anywhere near it. Fixed his little red wagon

It's a funny thing that this thread has been raised as my boy had taken up the recreational sport of fence jumping a few weeks ago. He is regularly worked and trained, so lack of stimulation isn't his excuse. It started one day when I had some tradesmen come and do some work on the roof. All of the drilling and hammering spooked him and so he jumped the fence. We live on 16 acres so once he successfully attempted the first jump and caught sight of the goats in the paddock........well you get the drift. The little bastard would jump at every opportunity, no matter how worn out he was. He wanted more, more more damn it!! The act was certainly a self rewarding one for him. The only thing that has stopped him has been a hot wire on the fence. You can buy these at Bunnings and all you need is a 12volt unit with a 12 volt battery - and the hot wire itself of course. Easy peasy to install and your dog will only attempt to escape once after that! However, with your friend owning a working dog, don't be surprised if the dog exchanges one problem behaviour for another like barking, which is why she needs to keep the dog stimulated with lots of activity and training on a regular basis......especially kelpies.

Hey Bosko Fantastic work and I commend you on your commitment and hard word in achieving the stand for exam as wel as moving up to the next level. ;) Congratulations on the wonderful achiement. It's a nice feeling when you see all your hard work pay off.

MrsD, I believe the reason for this happening is probably due to incorrect application and/or lack of, or insufficient instruction regarding progressing to the next step.

Hey Cosmolo There is another, very similar style of harness, called the Sensible Harness which is from the good ole US of A. One of my trainers had it sent down and we tried it on a 45 kg GSD who is a chronic puller and an 8 year old ACD x and it worked fantastic on both dogs. The concept is similar in that the D is on the dog's chest and if the dog pulls against it, the automatic response is to U turn back to the handler which I think can be used to mould a new behaviour. The Sensible Harness is not as complicated as the Black Dog version and I personally feel it is far superior and does not interfere with any of the dog's movements (not to imply that the BD one does). Here is the link to their website if you wish to have a look see : Sensible Harness

Take the advice of all the very knowledgable people here and see a behaviour specialist...yesterday!

erin993, how old is your pup?? I can't help but think that this is not a housetraining issue, but rather a leadership issue. Do you have other dogs apart from him? But before we go down the track of behaviour problems and provided you are implementing the housetraining regime correctly, have a look at what you are feeding him as many brands of dog food, yes even the super premiums, have extremely high levels of sodium which makes the dog drink more and the results are....more peeing. If this is the case, try feeding a more natural based diet which should eliminate the need to drink large quantities of water.

Jesomil, you're probably better off buying it from Amazon as it will probably end up being cheaper than ordering it through Angus & Robertson or other book store.

We teach lure from stand as a preferred method. We do the"touch" exercises separately as I feel these are very important, especially for young pups. For more difficult dogs and those who refuse to offer a drop, we use the lure with successive approximation approach...works every time!

Wow miccar96, what a beautiful boy Henry has turned out to be

Naughty Victoria Stillwell..... using tug of war to distract the aggressive dog from other dogs.....tst tst

Sounds like your pup has turned the tables and is now training you! Using food to train (whilst excellent in teaching) does have its downfalls and one of them is that it quickly turns into a bribe rather than a reward for a job well done. If she plants the bum the best thing you can do is immediatly drop the leash and walk away (probably best to do this in a safe, enclosed area initially). Show her that you are not going to play this game and that she is not the one in control of the treats, but rather you are. As soon as she realises that she is not going to get the treat and that you are walking away, she should decide that this game is no longer fun and come racing back to you. After 20 or 30 paces, give her the treat reward but don't come to a stop when you do, continue walking in many different directions to encourage her to follow you for longer periods between food treats. It's somewhat of a follow the leader game. Good luck!

The only way I can contact him is by way of smoke signal.....it's a real bugger on a windy day! Tells me his missed the "call".

How about a Working Kelpie....it will do the exact opposite to what you want it to do because it thinks it knows better

Since moving to the country, HG lives like the Armish.....no internet, no email, I'm surprised he has electricity and gas out there...

TH, how dare you make such an assumption. There have been many threads here about S&R topics and if you'd care to do a search, you will NOT find my name in any of the posts. I do not comment on that which I don't know. I didn't want to get into a slagging match and unfortunately this is what it has turned out to be. If you wish to discuss techniques, you're more than welcome, otherwise I'm over this useless banter.

Bravo PF...wel put.

TH, just because someone has trained military dogs, doesn't mean they can train the average family pet. Military dogs are purpose bred with hard nerves and high drives and can usually take more work and punishment than the average pet dog. This comment is unfair and has nothing to do with any trainer's credentials and ability to train dogs. I train and work Working Kelpies, this does not make me an expert in training and working Search and Rescue dogs.

TH, I completely agree with your example and I too see these problems on a regular occurrence. However, we cannot blame food rewards entirely for this or even sound as though we are. The discussion on the radio at the time was about dog attacks in general and I felt it was a very blanketed statement for MT to make. If you ask me, the majority of these dogs attacked due to LACK of training, rather than food reward training.

Tapferhund, it is obvious that you are mentored by MT so all the power to you. I have no intentions on turning this into a slagging match however your last post intrigues me. Please ask MT why he poo poo's the use of treat rewards yet writes a book on the application?

Correct Tapferhund. MT has had 50 years of success with his methods, but that doesn't mean Jo and Jane Public will. I see each week people coming to school who have tried to apply some of the more "old school" type methods with their dogs only to end up either being growled at by their dogs or with no results at all. Techniques and methods evolve continuously, and it is up to all good trainers to ensure that they are abreast of anything new that comes along so that we instruct on correct leadership balance and get things happening for people and their dogs without it becoming a dangerous exercise. Isn't this why we attend conferences like APDT or read books etc. So does this mean that you would be comfortable instructing Jo and Jane Public to alpha roll and/or apply a harsh physical correction to their "dominant" 50kg Rottie who won't drop? Wouldn't looking into a good leadership program and various other "life reward" technqiues work better (and be safer) in this instance for these non-dog savvy people? Jo and Jane Public do not subscribe to these sorts of magazines and if so, most would not be ABLE to correctly and safely apply some of the techniques outlined. MT lost my vote when I heard him on talk back radio once saying that food reward methods are the reason why we see so many dog attacks occur! A very "bold" statement to make I reckon. Before I get attacked for being "purely positive", I am a "balanced" trainer, who will use whatever method/tool that works. From food to prong collars and everything else in between. I see the merits in all techniques but will not shove one or another down people's throats. It all depends on the dog and handler's capabilities. I think most trainers on this forum are the same. Couldn't agree more PF. A "hard to train" dog teaches a trainer many things....mainly which techniques do not work!