Kelpie-i

Oh yes, I think I know who you were. Yes, it's certainly a pity we didn't get the chance to speak personally. Don't let the size fool you!!!

LM, which one were you? Sorry I didn't get a chance to talk to you guys at any length yesterday but it was "assessment day" and the centre was, for some reason, a lot busier than usual. I await your report on Four Paws with baited breath , although it was probably not the best of days to have attended for observation as there weren't any real teaching classes going on apart from the Advanced class. All others, as mentioned, were undergoing assessments. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed your time there...I wished you could have made yourself known to me.

Sorry PF, didn't mean to...like I said I'm tired so probably shouldn't written anything. Carry on.....

Sorry, it's been a long day for me and I am extremely exhausted but couldn't help myself in reading some of this thread. What's with all the dominance rubbish?? A dog pulls on the lead because we let it....simple. It's not rocket science. Over time we've allowed him to practice and strenghten his opposition reflex and rewarded him by following it when it drags us around. I cannot see how this is dominance. Again, I am weary so probably haven't understood the conversation.

I have seen people use tennis balls but I would rather the reward come from me and stay with me so that I can continue to control it. Having a dog fetch a ball is a reward in itself and the ball is doing the rewarding, not me, therefore whilst it will certainly work I still like that element of control over the reward. JMO. Downsides: the dog sees the game of fetch ie. the ball, as reward rather than youself with the reward, also some dogs may choose enough is enough and run off with the ball (not all dogs of course).

Corvus, the lady actually made some enquiries about a Lappie and spoke with a breeder who refused to sell her a puppy because she works during the day. Now whilst I can understand that a puppy requires much attention in the early weeks, I find this an absolutely silly reason not to sell a pup to a person who seems genuinly interested in owning a dog and has done all the right things so far, albeit with a little guidance, to ensure she is getting a good quality pup and the right breed for her. She was even going to take a couple of weeks off work to stay home and care for the pup and is, of course, ready to commence training. It is this kind of scrutiny that may lead this person to go and buy a pet shop puppy....fingers crossed she doesn't. Sorry, just had to vent!

:rolleyes: Now that I've gotten up off the floor...APBT resource guarding does not mean the dog is "dominating" you, it means he is guarding that which he sees as a valuable resource to him because we continuously try to take it away from him. How would you like it if someone came up to you at the dinner table and took your half eaten plate of food away. I think you would throttle them and in turn, they would slap YOU in the face. OMG, your poor dogs and extremely bad advice!

Copraphagia is the technical term and it is extremely normal for some dogs to do this. The act of copraphagia derives from their ancestors, not the wolf but their more recent ancestors, the village (or proto) dog who were scavengers and would consume faeces found around rubbish dumps in early human settlements. You could give the pineapple a try but it is best to try and break the habit by not allowing him to practice it...remove all faeces as soon as you see it. Some say a change of diet can work but I think once a poo eater, always a poo eater, albeit it subsides.

Update!! I just got off the phone with the lady and she has decided on a breed....She has decided to go with the Cavvy Bless her heart, she was still hurting over the malamute and asked whether there were any first time owners that I knew of, who obtained a malamute and were okay with the dog. This was a tricky one and I had to be careful not to brand her as inadequate but I think she was happy with my answer. I did also mention about the amount of shedding the mal does which I didn't think of initially. I gave her the Vic Dogs website details but if anyone here knows of any really good cavvy breeders that would be great. I would be happy to pass on their details to her.

Yes Mr R & NR, to give a report would be extremely time consuming and approx 5000 pages long DVDs of the seminar, albeit condensed, will be available in a few months for purchase but priorty will be given to seminar attendees. Brenda will be returning in 2010 so those of you who missed out will get the opportunity to see her. I am also already organising the next guest speaker/seminar so watch this space !!!

Yes I totally agree LL. I think it may have been her (and her family's) saving grace. I haven't heard from her today and I hope she has gone off to research the list of breeds I recommended to her. I also told her that when she had chosen a breed to contact the Dogs Vic and ask for a list of reputatable breeders. I did the best I could, I suppose, and I would dearly love to see her with new newly chosen breed at training in the near future. I can certainly understand how anyone can fall in love with a cute puppy but I don't think she was totally aware as to the size and calibre of such a breed as an adult. I will call her in a few days if I haven't heard from her to see what she has decided on (if she has decided) and I will let you guys know. I really do feel better about my decision to talk her out of it and I am sure that most people would have done the same. It's still a hard thing to do though...but sometimes we have to tell it like it is.

LL, no such thing as "treatment" for aggression, just management strategies, teaching of new skills, re-socialisation and desensitisation techniques. Management of an aggressive dog is a lifetime exercise and as such, Brenda provided the auditors with all the techniques and strategies required to deal and manage the problem so that you can effectively "mask" it and also "add to" the dog's conditioned responses to the triggers. Cosmolo, Brenda uses a mixture of R+ and R-. Lots of pressure on/off exercises not too dissimilar to horse training techniques which work amazingly on dogs. For some exercises she uses food and others she doesn't which was extremely refreshing to see the good balance of techniques. IMO, she is the only trainer who was able to effectively use the techniques she was teaching and actually see the results almost immediately. The exercises didn't require a heap of handler proficiency either which make them quite easy for a novice handler to apply. She spoke about hind brain and front brain uses of the dog as well as recognising micro behaviours in dogs.

Phew, that makes me feel better... thanks guys. I knew I was doing the right thing but sometimes we can over-step our mark and say things that we have no business in saying. Admittedly, I was thinking more of the dog's welfare. Yes spotted devil, I was thinking the exact same thing of the breeder selling her the puppy. Why did they not ask her questions to see if their pup was going to a suitable home? Makes me wonder sometimes. :D The lady also stated that she researched the breed and said she was aware of what they were like. I answered by saying that no written word will ever prepare you for the reality of what will be.

I think the reason I feel so bad is that this person was eager to get the pup into training so it could have worked out for her but my gut feeling was that this was going to end disastrous. She was extremely upset about cancelling the puppy as she had her heart set on it. Had even gone into my OH's store and purchased collar, lead etc etc. :D I spoke to her at length today about her lifestyle and activity level etc and the more I heard the more I could sense this was not going to be the right dog for her. The pup was going to be a male.

Probably more a topic for "General" but my query is directed at dog trainers. I had a lady call me yesterday enquiring about puppy classes etc. She stated that she is a first time dog owner and was purchasing a Malamute. She was extremely softly spoken, still lives with her parents who are not keen on the idea of having a dog and advised that the reason she chose this breed was because it was "cute". I almost had a car accident when she told me this (I was driving at the time.....handsfree set!). I had to pull over to the side of the road and commenced giving her 1001 reasons why she should not get this dog. The lady had only just put a deposit on the pup therefore had not picked the puppy up yet. Today the lady calls me and tells me that she has cancelled the order as per my advice but feels really upset about doing so. I feel so bad for talking her out of getting the dog but my 'dog trainer' instinct kicked in and I began to envisage a total hell with this dog. I gave her some recommendations of other breeds that might be better suited and also encouraged her to go and have a look at some rescue shelters. She was adamant that the dog had to have long hair or fluffy coat! Did I do the right thing? What if she would have done okay with the dog? I am on a guilt trip at the moment as this is not something I normally do (people already have their dogs when they call me). I hope she finds a dog more suited to her. How many other trainers here have had to talk someone out of getting a dog?

Ditto to what Erny said. In a conversational aspect and to simply describe a dog that is acting aggressively, I don't see anything incorrect about calling it fear aggression. After all, it is aggression brought on by fear just as territorial aggression is aggression brought on by protecting territory. The person who told you this is what I term "one who splits hairs". :D

Thanks Erny and Jigsaw....it was a very adrenaline filled 4 days and whilst I didn't get to hear all of Brenda's seminar (coz I was rushing around all over the place ), what I did catch of it was sensational! I am glad you both enjoyed it and got something out of it. Nothing worse than spending a heap of money going to a seminar and not really gaining any benefit from it! The private consult day was fantastic as you got to see everything Brenda spoke about over the first 3 days actually come into play. Especially when Laura and Indy (dog reactive) had their session. It was refreshing to see an International trainer actually get in there and work all the dogs, rather than just preach to people without showing any actual proof of what they are preaching. Go Brenda!! I'm sure there were other DOLers there....so c'mon...who were you!!

Extremely interesting thread..... I haven't read all the posts here but thought I'd share information based on Ray Coppinger. Here are some differences between wolves and dogs: 1. Contrary to our terminology to "Pack" is to "hunt". Therefore wolves do not live in a "pack" but rather pack when they hunt. 2. Dogs are not hunters, they are scavengers and do not hunt for survival (food) - done to death in another thread...I know!!! :D 3. Dogs have thicker skin than wolves do 4. Dogs have little photoperiodic response (ie become pregnant only when resources are high) 5. Dogs (Males) are not seasonal as male wolves are. 6. Wolves have short critical socialisation periods ie. 19 days, compared to the dog's 49 days. 7. Where the wolf shows the complete set of hunting motor patterns, dogs will only show some or few due to selective breeding. Whilst dogs and wolves share identical mtDNA, they are not identical animals. Amen! I The hunting process can take days, sometimes up to a week. It is not something that is done within a few minutes like we see on Discovery channel. A wolf pack hunting Bison (as an example) may take a pack anything up to 7 days before they make the kill......IF they make the kill. This is not what dogs do....in fact dogs don't hunt for food and will resort to scavenging before they resort to hunting if need be. They team up with other feral dogs to play out their innate motor pattern of predatory drift for the thrill of the kill but not to survive for food.

Yes that's Paul McPhail. He has the Beloka kelpie stud in Welshpool Victoria....that's where our bitch is from Sophie is Paul's "right hand" dog, she took over from his old boy Max a few years ago. You should see his dogs form a temporary "holding pen" for about 200 sheep whilst he drenches them. Truly amazing! Is this clip current? Was it on recently? I'd love to see him go onto the next stage.

Jess I hear you and I totally understand what you're saying. It's just a pity that it is the dogs who are branded rather than their owners in most cases.

Badly trained/mannered through a human's eyes only. To dogs most are just being....well just dogs. Society asks a hell of a lot from dogs and if they don't live up to expectations, then they are branded as "bad" dogs.

Yes the Melbourne tour is fully booked and no, she is not going to QLD. She is going to Italy later this year to do a seminar there if anyone is interested in a taking in a holiday at the same time :rolleyes:

Laffi I see you're in NSW, so if you contact Judy Turley on her email: [email protected] she will be able to give you more details re the Sydney seminar.

Midol did you hear about the Brenda Aloff seminar which is happening next weekend in Melbourne and then the following week in Sydney?

My dogs know that they are not to pull whilst on the lead, although given half the chance they most certainly would, as was the case when I allowed my 10 year old nephew to walk one of my dogs on lead once. Looked like a steam locomotive pulling a carriage. However, when we are out in the paddocks and/or walking off lead, they will all choose to either stay by my side or walk behind me, without any retraint required. Ocassionally they will go off and sniff something but will promptly return. We go on adventures as a team and enjoy the open land. Shell, this is not so much leadership, more good handling and training. Watch the demeanour of your dog both on lead and off. If you can keep your dog next to you (or in your general area) whilst off lead then you have a team with a leader.