Kelpie-i

I asked if it might be play but the owner is adamant that it is aggression. He trains dogs for herding and said has never seen this behaviour in a young pup before. Apparently during one episide the pup launched itself onto one of the other dogs and caused a few lacerations on its face. Sounds like it could be a little more serious than play but it would be difficult to 'diagnose' anything over the phone. I though about K9 but wasn't too sure if he was willing to travel which is why I thought I'd check to see if there was anyone closer to him first. Thanks for that PF, I will pass on the DogTech info, as well as a recommendation to see Steve. ;) What about yourself PF???

Trust you to say a "funny" Herding_Guy ;) PF, the dog in question is a 4 month old BC who is "attacking" and biting at the other 2 dogs in the household. The owner does not know what to do.

Hi Guys Just wondering if anyone here can recommend a good trainer/behaviourist in Canberra who has experience in dealing with aggression. The person contacted me for some help/advice but I am loathe to give advice over the phone. Thanks heaps in anticipation.

I was once told that any tinge of green in poo was due to too much iron but I'm no nutritionist. Rock on Monday And the chance to see the spunky Dr Bruce Erny, you know you can call me anytime for a chat....!!!!!

Erny, you already know how I feel about what the chiro said to you. Would he say the same about a human child who was sick?:rolleyes: See what Dr Syme says on Monday and please let us know. In the meantime, please try and not let it get the better of you

So she doesn't use the clicker as an event marker? If she uses the click to signify the end of the exercise (like a release cue), then what does she use as a bridge (if any)? Did she say why she chooses to use the click to signify the end and how does this differ (better) than using the click to mark the progressive or correct behaviours? Sorry for the 20 questions....I wish I could've gone but there was no way I was going to get there.

I didn't get to go to the Uta seminar but was wondering if I had missed out on much???? Was it an "introduction to clicker" type of seminar or was it for more advanced type work?

Personally I don't go to off lead parks with my dogs any more. They have a group of dog friends that they happily run with but for the most part, their fun and enjoyment comes from me. Just too risky and besides it would not be at all fair on my DA Kelpie.

Aggression is aggression IMO, what type of aggression are you referring to Cosmolo? Corrections, if any, should only used when the dog is absolutely, positively aware of the behaviour that is expected. If he makes a wrong choice, then he can safely be corrected. But to correct for the act of showing aggression, especially in extreme cases, that is not teaching the dog anything, other than to be more smarter about it next time and to wait for an opportunity without showing any warning signs. Personally, and this IMOO, I would not entrust a novice handler with corrections.

dark angel, the use of corrections when trying to manage aggression only lends to a dog who becomes a ticking time bomb. Whilst he will initially shows avoidance through the use of corrections, any given opportunity that presents itself, he will take. Never fight aggression with aggression. How long have you been using corrections for? If your method is not giving you an increasing line of consistent behaviour ie. his aggression is lessening and he seems more relaxed around new dogs, then it is working. If you have to correct him each time he sees another/new dog, then your method is not working.

Grotty Rotty, does this method work for those breeds of husbands who feel the urge to skip down the isles singing the ads for the products he picks up off the shelves......just to embarrass me????

:p George Schofield

Hey guys thanks so much for your responses. I'll look into the 'Dry bed' stuff and will also ask the vet about the sudafed. I'm assuming you would give this before bed time only?? I took him out for a last piddle at around 11pm last night and this morning he was dry. Will do again tonight and see what happens. Erny, I'll look into the belly bands...sounds interesting. I guess it's the joys that comes with owning an elderly dog.

Hi Guys Well I never thought that my beautiful old GSD boy would ever show any signs of ageing, apart from arthritis etc, but unfortunately over the last 2 nights, he hasn't been able to hold his bladder in his sleep and has wet his bed. On the morning after the first 'wet' night, it wasn't too bad and i just washed the cover etc, but this morning his whole bed was saturated and there were even small puddles of it on the floor around his bed. I contacted the vet (she is a good friend of mine) and she stated that there isn't any medication for male dogs with incontinence unfortunately, but to ensure that I put something over the bed to draw up the moisture as lying in urine causes skin irritations. Has anybody experienced this with their dogs and if so, what did you use to absorb the moisture? Also, are there any dietary supplements that may help with this sort of problem? Any suggestions would be great....Thanks in advance.

Erny, judging by the info on the website, the trainer is currently undertaking the Delta course.

Re the hopping up on the bed issue, put a cat bell or something somewhat noisey on her collar so that you can hear her when she jumps onto the bed and then promptly put her back down on her own bed. If you're a light sleeper like me, that should work fine, if you're a heavy sleeper, then it may not work.

ozjen, thanks for the video link of Vito...what a gorgeous puppy! You can tell he has already "learned to learn" as he experiments with things. It's an absolute joy to watch.

Flyingfurball, owning a reactive dog can be quite disheartening, especially when you've tried to do the right thing from the start only to have it all explode in your face. You've already been given some very good advice but I will add....just something to keep in the back of your mind.... is that contrary to some belief, dog aggression is not a "dominance" problem. Aggression stems from many situations sometimes from a bad experience early in the pup's life, or lack of socialisation, learned behaviour or sometimes purely genetics. A well known dog behaviourist from America says that behaviour is like "Snot"...as in it's always the symptom of an underlying problem. The stem of aggression is almost always fear which then demonstrates itself in either fight or flight responses in dogs. Aggression is always accompanied by anxiety/stress to varying degrees in the dog, especially a dog that is unsure of his actions. When a dog is completely sure of his actions ie. lunging, barking or biting that actually works for him, then he becomes confident in what he believes should be the correct behaviour to display. This is when we see a dog who seems to stand on his toes, body lunging forward, ears forward...denoting a very confident, yet aggressive approach. Unfortunately this is what we see in most cases and term as "dominance" aggression. In reality, there really isn't any such thing. A truly "dominant" dog is usually very calm in disposition and doesn't need to prove himself. He is the quietly confident individual that walks off to do his own thing. Some really good books to read are "Aggression in Dogs" by Brenda Aloff and also "Canine Body Language" by Brenda Aloff. These will give you a very good understanding into aggression and the body language that accompanies it.....it also teaches you to identify micro-behaviours. They are the very tiny behaviours that almost everyone misses but are extremely important in helping you read your dog, thereby managing and dealing with the dog's problem. Good luck and I hope you find someone close to you who can help you soon.

I initially shaped the retrieve with Pete the pug and then employed other techniques (was running out of time and needed to get the behaviour happening asap). With Gabe, I shaped his heeling, picking a tissue out of a box and leg touches (alternating paws touching my lifted knee) which now looks like a dance move because I don't have to lift my knees as high and he raises his front legs. And also leg weaves (although leg weaves began with some luring initially ). Superminty on this forum shaped an entire complex skill with her boy which was to put wallet into a basket and then carry the basket to her. All free shaping! Excellent work.

Nik, absolutely fantastic!! Please, please, please let us know how you progress and of course, we MUST see the finished product. He looks so happy and comfortable doing it too!!

luvsdogs, based on your understanding, what is a "positive method"? Would you mind clarifying what you mean here....not a challenge, just curious!

Absolutely correct Rappie and I totally understand your 'pain', this is why it is crucial that the instructor emphasis the importance of teaching acceptance of these things rather than just using the exercise to fill in 10 mins of a puppy class.

S&S, yes in most puppy classes this is normal, but I would dare say there are some that don't. Touching and getting puppies used to being touched and examined is very good, but teaching a dog to accept restraint also important. Well done Tangerine, this is excellent.

Restraints, handling and examinations should be a major part of any puppy class curriculum....and not for just one week. These exercises should be focussed on at the beginning (or end) of each class and owners encouraged to practice each day. Positive reinforcement is but one forth of the reinforcent quadrant, therefore it cannot scientifically be blamed for this problem. Even compulsion type techniques are accompanied by positive reinforcement (treat/pat giving) to increase behaviour. The word "positive" should not be used in an emotional sense when talking dog training and reinforcement. The problem stems from the no touch "luring" or "inducement" techniques that are used by many trainers. Don't get me wrong, I use luring all the time and I love it, but it must be balanced out with various restraints and handling (touchie-feelie) exercises as well.

m-j good point!! I believe reducing exercise all together will only make the anxiety worse and/or may introduce new/worsened symptoms. There are other, more affective, ways of "devaluing" the owner which are not as stressful on both dog and owner.