Kelpie-i

I'm a little "Dunbar'd out" to be honest. Saw him at the APDT conference in the USA in October as he did a couple of sessions there.....whilst he cracks some funny jokes, he's a bit of a 'has been' I reckon. He's solution to almost everything is "put it on cue".....that seemed to be his only bit of advice he could offer to all problems. There seemed to be some tension between him and Suzanne Clothier during the round table discussions after some contradiction of information during some of the sessions....then again Suzanne Clothier came accross as little bitter towards the whole world which probably didn't lend any favours to the whole atmosphere. I remember hearing someone shout out rather sarcastically during one of Suzanne's sessions, "why don't you tell us how you really feel!!" Anyway, I won't be wasting my money on this one as I don't think there is anything more the man can offer that he hasn't already written and lectured about. I wasn't aware that Roger Abrantes was coming out.....where can I locate the details for that????

Ursus, so sorry to hear about your situation. If you don't mind, would you share with us the actual situation which led to the need to put your dog to sleep ie. did she get into a fight and seriously injure or kill another dog?? Was it dog aggression or human aggression? And was it diagnosed as fear based or anything else? It's unfortunate that you were not able to find the right trainer to help you with the situation. A trainer with a more 'balanced' approach may have been able to assist you in rehabiliting your dog. But you must remember that aggression can take anything up to 18 months to get it to a stage where the dog can be comfortable around other dogs or people. It's about applying a systematic desensitisation process, accompanied by handling techniques that will teach you how to handle your dog in difficult situations as well as teaching your dog the appropriate actions so that he/she makes the right decisions based on what she is feeling. It's not about applying a heap of corrections and supressing behaviour as this will cause further issues for you. Based on the information you provide and the fact that you needed to put your dog to sleep, it would seem you were given correct advice that your dog may not have been trustworthy off lead, but again this would depend on if she possesed any social skills to start with as well as being able to befriend another dog during the course of rehabilitation. The only bit of advice I can safely provide you via a forum is to seek a good balanced trainer for your new pup so that they may assist you with all aspects of creating the dog you want. If you are in NSW, then perhaps pay Steve Courtney from K9 Pro a visit (or call him) to see if he can help you or at least point you into the right direction. Good luck with it....but please don't go to the opposite extreme to seek your answers for the perfect dog

Yes she has quite a few DVD's that she sells through Tawzer Dog, I've got a 3 set DVD called BAT, Behavioural Adustment Training for Aggresion and Fear and a heap of notes from the conference. I think she's written a book as well. She has Patricia McConnell attend her seminars....that's gotta say something! We have generally used CC, backaways, auto focus and LAT to assist those with reactive dogs, and still do.... but this BAT concept makes perfect sense and it works quite quickly too, especially with those dogs that stop taking food when their stress levels peak. Let me know what you think once you've had a chance to watch, read and try it.

Cosmolo I am new to BAT and after seeing Grisha and BAT in action at the APDT America conference in October I was converted. Have been using it since with private consults with fantastic results so far...remember I too am also getting the technique right so some mistakes are occurring. It works on functional reward like taking the dog away from the trigger and releasing slight pressure. Negative reinforcement and life rewards. The omition of food enables the dog's behaviour to become functional without it. Re the uncontrolled situations..there really is no difference to pushing past threshold boundaries using to BAT and pushing past threshold boundaries using CC or any other technique. Either way the owner has pushed the dog too far causing reaction so they merely reset and start again. Will post more info on my findings later tonight as I am off to a client now.

BAT (Behaviour Adjustment Training by Grisha Stuart) does not require food and works extremely well. Seems to work in half the time that both LAT, Auto focus and/or Counter Conditioning does and does away with the need to use food!

One small tip.....Do not treat aggression with aggression!

Lindainfa, please come and see me at training if you are still struggling with the drop. I have a heap of 'tricks' up my sleeve to make it happen. ETA...it's Trish from Four Paws ;)

Me too Cosmolo...I have so many clients with dogs that resemble pitbulls or actually are pitbull x's. I really feel for them especially since they are doing the right thing by the dog. It's a very sad day for our bully friends

I don;t think we'll know 100% until the regulations are out, however this is the way I've interpereted it. After all, the test isn't going to be fail safe and us mortals won't be trained in it so it would be unreasonable to expect Joe Bloggs to be able to ID his dog as PB cross. I'd think that you'd have to comply with dangerous dog legislation though. As I understand it too...if you have previously registered your dog as a Staffy x or some other blend and it is found to actually be a Pitbull, your dog will be seized and destroyed. You will need to contact the council within the 4 week period to correct the breed of the dog on their records.

How the hell did I miss this thread for 2 years???? Better late than never I suppse. Here are my 'krazy Kelpies': The airborne Kelpie is Gabe...he's seriously crazy but very lovable

Rapigel....fantastic stuff! I use it me, my husband, my arthritic mother...my dogs don't need it at this stage but will use it on them if need be :D It's excellent stuff...smells awful though. I got mine from Petstock store...they sell more for humans than for animals.

100% with Erny on this one. The problem is at home and amongst you, the owners/family. The solutions requires good leadership strategies from you and implementing various programs. This cannot be done achieved in a 'boot camp' situation. Sorry...but as suggested, you need to get a good trainer/behavourist out to see you..OR you go out to see them if you live remotely.

Agree with Nekhbet here. Also sounds like resource guarding to me. He would have just reached maturity. As others have suggested, get a good trainer/behaviourist out to see you.

Agree with Erny The puppy's brain grows at 80% capacity in the first 16 weeks. This means the more the puppy experiences, sees, does and learns during this time, the more cell connections are made in the brain...the bigger the brain mass and the more the puppy learns to learn. So don't keep your puppy in an incubator, aka 'inside', until all vaccinations as this will be doing your puppy no favours both psychologically and developmentally. My kelpie was 'herding' sheep at 6 weeks...

I read about the BCC study via the link that Janba put up. I have filled in the survey...I know it's a BC study but they were talking about stock and working dogs so I thought I might give them my info. Please do post any links to updates on the study...would be very interested in the findings.

Ness thanks very much for your input and I agree, it's definitely the milder days that are the problem. I don't tend to do too much high energy stuff with the dogs on warmer days so those days aren't too much of an issue. I have 2 Kelpies and one of them, the female Tasha, can go on forever without even as much as a heavy pant whereas Gabe is very different. Just this afternoon I was out with all the dogs in the paddock throwing the frisbee a few times and I started to notice Gabe's lowered head and heavy breathing after 10 mins and had to stop and bring him inside. I'll get him to Weribbee vet and have him checked over. In the meantime, managing the exercise sessions is my only option, but like Ness, it sometimes too easily gets away from me. Ness is your dog on any medication for it, or is is just managing the excercise? Thanks Erny...I send her a PM

Yes you try telling that to a kelpie ....Or did you mean my absent minded 17 year old son!! Thanks Janba, will make contact with Ness and Denise.

catherine.b, it's normally when he's either working sheep, chasing the ride on mower or motorbike and sometimes when playing frisbee...so pretty much every time his heart rate is substantially elevated. I take him jogging with me every 2nd day and he is fine with that (4.3km run), but then again he's not getting all worked up when we jog. I have to lock him in the kennel when my OH mows he paddock unfortunately, but my teenage son doesn't always remember to do that when he's mowing the grass. Like I said, she didn't know a whole heap about it and the only information I could find was on the internet.

No Persephone...the vet thought it was heat exhaustion initially but when I explained that it happens in all weather, she was a little stumped. She'd heard of the condition but wasn't too sure about it. Is there a specialist vet I should be seeing?? Janba, if you could ask that person, it would be great. It's horrible when it happens and all I can do is sit there and wait with him until he recovers.

Janba thanks for the article. A very interesting read. I too thought it may have been heat exhaustion, especially when it happened the first time a few years ago but since he recovered after a little while and then promptly got up and walked outside, I thought all was okay. He certainly gets the wobbles and walks as though drunk until he collapses and continues to breath heavily for ages. I try to bring his body temperature down with a wet towel or dousing him with water. I do hope they find some answers...I believe it to be genetic as his mother suffers from this as well, albeit not as bad from what I hear. Thanks again!

My 5 year old male Kelpie suffers from what I think is exercise induced collapse. I've done some research on the WWW and he seems to be exhibiting most of the symptoms....although most of the sites talk about the condition being prevalent in Labs mostly. No matter how cold it may be, if he becomes over-active ie. chasing something with real gusto, he collapses as though he is to the point of exhaustion. It takes him anywhere from 15-30 mins to recover, depending on how 'hard' he's run. Forget trying to exercise him in warmer weather...it's just not gonna happen anymore. I have briefly spoken to my vet but she was not overly familiar with the condition. Does anyone here have any experience/knowledge on the condition and is there anything I can do, apart from reducing exercise....in a Kelpie It does seem to be getting progressively worse. Any info would be great. Thanks

I'm currently perfecting my dog's marching...it's been a slow process (mainly due to my lack of time ) but we are definitely getting there. This was shaped from a wave. Next on the list is the backward walk. I went to see Carolyn Scott when she came to Australia many years ago and she suggested a couple of things for teaching the backward walk to dogs with no REA: 1. A piece of wooden dow (sp?) which is placed gently against the dog's chest and used to coax the dog to take a step backward - click/treat 2. Barriers on either side which gave the dog no option but to walk backward. My boy sometimes walks backwards on his own accord so it will be much easier for me to capture it in my case.

Excellent, does that mean no more 'my dog' stories from you about Kivi then?? Does it also mean you'll base your comments, findings and statements on all the 'population of dogs' you work with???

:p I feel your pain meagan. Hugs to you. Take a deep breath....1....2...3...4...5

:D Yaaaaay go Erny!!!! You go girl