Amazetl

Hi everyone, I’m soon hoping to get some land, a small farm and I’d like to consider getting a guarding/protection dog with natural instinct (no training). I don’t want an aggressive dog. They need to get along well with other dogs. I’m looking for a dog with lower energy levels, happy to stay near the house and (live inside), go for walks around the farm and will be heavily socialised as a pup out and about. I have thought of the German Shepherd but I really think I’d prefer a more laid back breed. I have retrievers and kind of looking for a big dog who will be loving and affectionate, loyal and kind but will make us feel safe without actual aggression. I have also thought of a Rough Collie and hope to still get one one day but I’m looking for something that will physically be deterring. So the dogs on my list so far are: St Bernard Newfoundland English Mastiff Neapolitan Mastiff Irish Wolfhound Great Dane IF anyone has experience with any of them or thinks one would be way better than another or just not at all right I’d be really curious to hear. I have thought of some of the livestock guardian breeds but I don’t want them to wonder too much, I’d prefer them to stay closer. Most likely it would be a male (so big) and whatever I end up choosing if I go down this path will go to puppy and obedience class and have ongoing manners training and lots of socialisation at pet shops and markets and the like.

I haven’t finished reading this thread but there are some interesting and good ideas. Nothing happens in isolation though, whatever happens in change there will be some consequence. If only registered pedigree breeders breed wouldn’t that make prices go way up and not as many people be able to have a dog then and not enough dogs to go around either. If there was a cap on the price of a puppy, wouldn’t a lot just choose not to breed then because they aren’t getting enough to cover their costs? The cost of a c-section is a few thousand or more and if they lose all the pups or just have one or have to hand rear, it’s very expensive, thousands. I’m not sure what the percentage of breed club registered breeders do it to make a profit but even if they aren’t actively seeking one, they put a lot of hours and often lost hours of work and loss of pay, plus some breeds cost way more to breed than others, do we cap the cost of it all at the vets too and the formula amounts needed and litter size and medication and de-wormers? Different sizes require different costs as well as some breeds may have more special needs. So even capping the puppy price but not capping the price on everything else that they need to bring the litter into the world and raise it… I think would turn a lot of people away simply because they can’t afford it. As for legislations they come up with to try to implement - it seems messy, lets just try this, no how about this, oh that didn’t work so now lets do this. There are so many rules rules rules and whatever they’ve tried doesn’t seem to really do a lot of difference. A lot of people get a dog and don’t know anything about the breed or care or think about how hard it’s going to be. A lot get the wrong breed for their lifestyle. Education should be the starting point but some people don’t seem to able to really learn too well, they just want what they want and think it’ll be fine and manageable.

I inquired the other day about desexing my mature girl. I couldn’t believe how much it was going to cost. The lower rate of registration I’m not sure is all that low when you take into account the cost of desexing. I’m not blaming the vets at all. These things cost but I don’t think many people factor in all those costs. They think of the initial - food, bed, toys, maybe puppy school, but what about for years and vaccinations and de-wormers and obedience classes and desexing and all the rest. I’m sure a lot of people do consider it but I would be concerned with someone buying from a byb and not really doing those sums first. They generally can’t give the dog back like they can with a proper breeder and if they can’t pass the dog on or sell it (hopefully for a profit some of them) then they take it to a shelter. Also, I was looking at shelter dogs online in my area and wondered who breeds these mixes. Some of them had so many interesting mixes I don’t understand how they breed them or why, do they really think they’ll make a profit out of selling the heavily mixed pups? I don’t know. Or do they just have a female and a male and don’t desex and end up with pups on their hands? I don’t know much about it really but I don’t think the problem is with breed club breeders who should home their dogs to appropriate homes and take them back if needed. I don’t know, I’m sure some of the laws have helped a little but there’s still a huge problem and those are falling through the cracks meanwhile some who are good pay the price. And breeds will decline over time. It will be interesting and probably sad to see what happens in the future generations. I think I read somewhere maybe on here about how many breeders aren’t willing to take a chance on a new generation of breeders and mentor them and allow them to carry on their lines. But if they don’t then they’re going to die out. I don’t know exactly how it works and I’m sure there’s a lot of good mentoring happening but it does seem like most adds sell on limited and express seriously about no breeding.

Do they mean ‘breeders’ as in just not from rescue organisations? Anyone who ‘breeds’ their dog and sells the pups?

They say that they are distinct from the normal Labradoodle. I think I read that there were 6 or maybe it was even more dog breeds that went into it that they will never share. I read that they only need to be clipped twice a year and brushed throughout. I don’t have any experience with a labradoodle but I imagine they are clipped much than that?

I read that they will forever keep it a secret of what breeds they used so that it isn’t copied without care and becomes all popular. So does that mean that there is a chance some time in the future that the Cobberdog will be a complete recognised breed? If so, that would be great right for those who do want the labradoodle since it doesn’t seem to be going away, the oodle craze. If they could establish a new breed where it is bred with care and tested over generations, but I guess there will always be the oodle breeders still. Difficult. I wonder what will happen in the future.

Forgive me for my ignorance but I’ve never been interested in labradoodles or oodles and have never read much about them specifically. I feel like I’m starting down a rabbit warren and maybe some people on here have more info. So they are a ‘labradoodle’ a lab x poodle. They are MDBA (master dog breeders association) approved but that means nothing in regards to ethical breeders who do the appropriate health testing on their breeding dogs. But what is the actual difference between a Cobberdog and a labradoodle? I read that they use more than just a lab and poodle to produce labradoodles but somehow the Cobberdog has its own dna. So what is happening? Is this something that will one day become a registered breed? Is it on that path at all? I know the history of the Murray River Retriever and how they are now a recognised breed and I would imagine there are some other non recognised breeds out there that they are trying and will one day be recognised? Interestingly, my time spent on the MDBA website made me click on what on earth the ‘Theodore’ dog breed in the making was. I had heard of Cobberdog before but not Theodore. They are a ‘cavoodle’. Anyway, just wondering on future of possible breeds and how that is working since I thought the problem with oodles is that they can’t get them to breed true. Hope it’s ok to talk about on here. I’m not looking for one of these dogs or know anyone who is, just really curious since the oodles are so popular right now and seem to be everywhere. But these ones say they aren’t just the regular oodles and are ‘pure breeds’ under the MDBA. And many people who come across that might think it’s registered because of that. Thanks everyone. Please remove if this isn’t allowed.

What about something like a Westie? Are they ok for elderly?

For a long time they were, even up to 9 or 10 thousand by the top puppy broker websites. But if you look now most on the trading post are under or around 2000 now and the puppy brokers are about 3 or 4 thousand. I think a lot of people just don’t think of the research, they just trust what they see and don’t think outside the box. Plus a lot of those huge puppy brokers have excellent marketing techniques making it seem like their dogs and puppies are so well cared for, better than any other puppy.

That’s so sad and disgusting. How many dogs must he have to be able to make that kind of money? Poor things. ‘Cavoodles’ and other oodles and other dogs in general don’t sell for 6000 anymore either. Now would be a really bad time to ‘get’ into the dog breeding world for money. There are so many adds, so many people have tried to make some money on them and it’s flooded now and they can’t sell them. So sad. Even purebreds who were 7000 a year ago are now half that price. Regardless, making profit for profit off a living animal is so sad. Sad they even wrote an article about it. It shouldn’t get any attention other to say how stupid it is. My breeder made no profit. After all the expenses (c-section and complications). That’s not to say that they don’t deserve to make some profit but it’s not the business where to expect it.

This is interesting to me because at puppy class the trainer mentioned just a brief spiel about health and trimming nails was part of it and they said that if you want you can get your vet to remove the dew claws. I didn’t say anything but I always thought it wasn’t something that was done/allowed anymore. My boy (lab) did tear his dew claw and it wasn’t long. I still don’t know how he tore it. It was a very difficult time getting the vet to look at it to help him. But in the end he was fine and some medicine and fixing it up didn’t take long, just it was really hurting him a lot. I do think if you keep them nice and short there’s less chance though. I know a lot of dogs don’t enjoy getting their nails cut and most dogs I see around have far too long of nails. I notice in the pet shops with grooming salons that they will cut them for you for 10 or so dollars….

I believe Cocker rage was found in solid gold and solid black colours. But I also believe and not sure on studies, but that a lot of it was due to overbreeding of the golden colour and people wanting the gold the most. I’m not sure where it all stands these days in the Cocker Spaniel world.

Thank you for the tip. I think I lucked out a bit with the shedding. I currently have a chocolate and he does shed but not that much. A couple times a year I will do a rake on him and can almost fill a bucket with his hair… I also slicker brush him every other day or as much as he can get because he loves it so much. I’ll have a look at them, thank you. It is really important to me to go with a good breeder who knows their dogs well and breeds for health and temperament. My current lab is bombproof, very affectionate and kind. He doesn’t have a mean bone in his body and has been great with his little puppy sister. He has a few recognisable dogs in his lines and it would be lovely to get a pup from one of his lines in some way but I also wouldn’t mind experiencing completely different lines if they fit well. I have only ever had chocolates before so can’t comment on experience with different colours, I only know I’ve read there are no studies to back up different temperaments of the colours but it’s interesting that so many people seem to experience this still. Edited to add that Tapua have quite a lot of dogs related to mine

I know that a lot of people say that the different colours have different temperaments but there are no studies to show that. I’m not saying one way or another, just that the studies lack. I do find it interesting that some people have experienced multiple of one colour being more this way or that temperament wise.

My heart is very much set on a black lab lately. I have a 6 month old sandy colour Golden Retriever so not for a while but I so badly have room for another lab too.

I was wondering for those who love Labs or anyone who comes across them and has thoughts on it - what colour is your favourite and why? I hope to get another lab in the future and I love all colours - chocolate, black and yellow. I would have all three if I could. In my mind, choc is the cuddliest looking, black is the most that would act as a protective dog to a lot of people just through looks and their deep bark, also to me perhaps the most serious looking, and yellow labs are like sunshine. I don’t buy into the colours having different temperaments, I do however think some lines who produce more one colour than another might seem like some are more prone to have a certain temperament. I know black dogs sometimes get a bad rep and it seems it’s because they can be harder to see their facial cues quite as well and yellows look the most friendliest to strangers possibly due to being able to see their faces so well. Anyway, if anyone has thoughts or opinions it would be interesting to read. Thanks. Hope it’s ok to post this here. I figure when the time comes I will just go with whichever colour the suitable breeder has because I don’t know how I would choose for a second time.

I think someone said above that Papillons remind them of being like a mini Border Collie. I can see that a bit with their ears sticking up and their markings but more hair. They only weigh 3 kgs, super small.

Raising my Labrador during his puppyhood I continuously had bruises all over my arms and legs and my clothes were torn quite often. My beanie (it was winter) would be stolen by him any time I put it on. He was the happiest, most affectionate and fun dog but so much work. One day, probably when he was about six months old, the bruises stopped. Occasionally now in his older age he will accidentally give me a bruise with his exuberance. He also has a tendency to run between my legs and forcefully take me for a ride around the room as I struggle to get off him. Mostly, he is a gentle giant and so kind and loving but he’s still big and when he gets happy oh he gets so happy and has to show it. I’m not sure if other large dogs are like this or even other Labs? My Goldens have been in stark contrast. I still would have another Lab in a heartbeat and hope to have more before I’m too old. Perhaps an elderly Lab adopted would be different? Mine still acts like a puppy so not sure about that. I like the idea of a Papillon that someone suggested. They are cute dogs and look sweet. I don’t know much about them though. I think a lot of people go for the Cavaliers. I know they are super sweet but some I know can be barky and active. Just a little thought too, I remember a retired couple at puppy class who had a tiny puppy (oodle) and they said how much of a tripping hazard he is. Often they would turn around and he’d be right under them and they’d almost trip.

I have thought about this for myself for future. I have Labs and Goldens and I’m positive my current Golden Retrievers would suit any age from baby to elderly, they are so super gentle and sweet. They aren’t boisterous at all. May be their lines as they are from the same lines. But I also know that I could just as easily get one who is big and strong and uses that strength to jump up or push me over or be difficult on the lead, etc. If you were thinking of getting an older dog, I wouldn’t put it down to any breed but rather talk to the breeder and see if that particular dog is suitable. Alternatively from a shelter although sometimes they don’t know the dog so well. If you were getting a puppy I’d be going with a breeder who knows how to pair their dogs to the right people and knows their lines and temperaments well. Some breeds I’ve thought of when I’m older are a Rough Collie - I like the larger size but more fine, they are known to be gentle, some lines have more work drive than others but generally they don’t have the strong herding instincts like some others do. Grooming wise, I personally love to brush my dogs so much and find it relaxing and a great bonding experience, but also apparently they don’t need as much as what people might first think. I’ve also thought of the Havanese but I wouldn’t want to cut their hair so that would be a lot of grooming and even though I love it, some days I may not feel like it or their coat just may easily mat which makes the brushing not so pleasurable for dog or person. I think there’s pluses and minuses in all breeds and there’s also exceptions in all breeds regarding energy levels - some known to be lap dogs super energetic and some sporting breeds super lazy. But that’s an exception and better to find that in a mature dog I’d think.

Dogs with ANKC papers usually come on the limited register. Almost all breeders sell them on this. If you want to be a breeder normally you would talk to the breeder beforehand and they would know your intention. Once they hit a certain age then they can undergo all the relevant testings for the particular breed and at that point the breeder may decide to change them over to the full register. But you don’t just breed from then. You also have to be a member of your state club for a certain time and pass an exam, get your prefix etc. It’s a pretty big deal and takes a lot of effort. Normally your dogs would also ‘prove’ themselves to the standard in some way such as showing or other titles. The first thing I would clear up is what the papers actually are. There are several non breed club registered breeders who are registered with other types of breeding practices and they might have some form of papers to prove this but it’s not AKNC affiliated.

Yeah I believe people who didn’t have their dogs desexed decided they could make some dollars by breeding them. A bit sad. They are all deserving of homes and I’m sure some are lovely natured and even healthy but the risk is high that they aren’t meant to be bred plus they don’t offer all that breed clubs breeders can.

You want 0 elbows but if 3 is overall for hips it’s good or if it’s 3/3 that is also good.

This is so sad. A lot of selfish people who shouldn’t have gotten one in the first place. Don’t forget that some people are going through great financial difficulties as well - some of these may genuinely believe that their dogs would be in better care elsewhere or simply cannot afford to even feed them. However with a recent change in my life financially wise (minor) someone who I was talking to suggested I sell my puppy! I told them very strongly that will not be happening. Besides in our case we have life time breeder support if for any reason we can’t keep our pups or dogs. I really don’t think anyone should get a puppy or be sold a puppy without that in place. But for that person it seemed so easy for them to think of not having to feed and vet bills etc. They themselves have their own treasured dogs but for some reason they thought since she’s still a pup it’s somehow ok. (By the way, we will be just fine and the dogs are all taken care of no matter what.) A dog can be expensive to care for. A lot of dog breeds or the oodles require grooming too with a professional unless you know how to do it yourself. That could get costly. I don’t know if it’s those mixes that are ending up in the pound though. I have seen several people over the years become overwhelmed with their herding working dog breeds who they got from backyard breeders and rehome them or leave them. I have heard so many excuses and sometimes it’s genuine really, they can’t afford trainers or obedience classes. They got themselves into the mess thinking they’d somehow have this amazing behaved family dog that just isn’t - all take time caring and training. A lot of people aren’t cut out for it or just don’t care it seems. Think about the people who get themselves into these situations in the first place, they haven’t put the effort into researching the right breed in some cases or the right way about going to get that breed. So they are less likely to really care about the bigger picture of having a dog too. Some of these people have a dog they got in lockdown, a cute puppy, puppy classes were only offered online at the time and I bet not many took them. They didn’t get to see other kids and families and get out and about apart from perhaps a walk or a trip to the vet where you weren’t even allowed inside with the pup. You’re trying to work from home and the pup wants attention. Finally you go back to work outside the home and the pup is a teen and starts chewing everything, wrecking everything, sometimes big expensive things like the sofa even. They jump and nip and are extremely difficult to walk on leash. You don’t have time or the thought or the care or the money to go to obedience classes. You’re sick of it. So you abandon them. That’s the situation a lot of naive people have found themselves in. Anyway. It’s a really sad situation and if you look at trading post or gumtree there are so many puppy adds and the prices have really come down by thousands in some cases. It makes it easy for people to just grab one. Generally there isn’t a lot of breeder input in it, like knowing what the situation of the pups will be or that they’d take them back etc. Just whoever pays. And it concerns me at the number of some purebreds on dogz online that are available. More than ever before. Their prices have come down dramatically in some cases and I wonder if it’s still easy or becoming harder to find homes for them all. If it’s becoming harder and there are more than ever before being bred and available and the breeders don’t breed for money then why are they all breeding right now when we are in this situation? Genuinely curious of that. Where is this going to lead? Golden Retrievers when I used to look would have maybe 10 adds and sometimes none at all. During lockdown the prices went up to 7 or 8 thousand. Some that are listed with their prices are now more than half that. What is going on really and what is going to happen in future? Did all the breeders who refused to breed during lockdown decide to all breed now? That was responsible (thinking lack of socialisation and lockdown pups etc). But how do they feel now about breeding when there are so many adds more than ever before? And there is double that from backyard breeders, some are asking more than on here even but their prices have come down too. I’m not sure what to think of it all but it is very sad to think of doggies being unwanted by the people who were meant to care for them for life except in very genuine circumstances where they in theory should go back to the breeder. It’s really sad.

Love Belgian Shepherds so much. One day hope to have one (from show lines) ;)

My advice is to not give him the opportunity to practice the behaviour and work on impulse control. There are lots of great youtube channels particularly focused on training the more working breeds. I’ve seen some lovely working breed dogs be wrecked due to their people just letting them do what they want because it’s too hard to put up the boundaries for them. Put those boundaries up right away and stay consistent and with all your effort you will have a lovely dog.