Amazetl

I’m of two minds about off leash areas. Firstly they should be still under effective control, signs state that too. But off leash dogs are probably going to go up to one another for a sniff and maybe a play. Many of them are very friendly and it can be good. However sometimes there will be someone there who isn’t supervising properly or at all and their dog is rushing at others and showing aggressive behaviour. But unless your dog is absolutely aggressive, I think even the dogs that aren’t super friendly deserve to be able to be there too, under effective control and other dogs should be able to read that dog and be a little less playful with it and leave it alone, as well as their owner who should be with them and supervising correctly and assessing each situation. It’s not an area to just go to, let your dog off leash and not even be watching them. It’s up to owners from the get go to be managing their dog off leash so that they learn to be able to read other dog language and not run up to people who don’t want them to etc. Dogs should take that lead from their owner who has taken them there regularly and trained them how to behave. Just to add, I’m not referring to dog parks, I’m not a fan of those, but of just off leash areas.

That is so sad about the pom puppy. I was raising medium size pups and they were so little and so new to licking up any milk, sometimes they would have a go one meal and then the next ignore it and just want their bottle. After several days of trying to get them more onto the lapping up milk (and wasting a bit of formula in the process!) they were successful and finally got it. Then I added in just a little bit of crunched up wheat bix so that there was some texture but mainly formula and it went down really well. After a few days of this it was onto mostly formula with a little bit of completely blended to mush dry food (as well as some bottles still as they adjusted).

Yes, I’m not a breeder. I was only saying what I started them on for some mush. I know a lot of people are happy to do raw but I would never do it because of any small risk, even though I know logically the risk is so minimal. It never did any harm and their toilets were good and it was just an initiation to some solid food as I found the texture of just a little wheat bix with the milk helped them transition for the first couple days while they figured out chewing. Because it was a complete hand rearing situation I wanted to get them onto solids in a safe way as soon as possible and being inexperienced back then I was terrified they’d choke. Everyone does things differently but there is so much advice out there, just make sure it’s safe and sound advice and that it works for your situation.

Good point about the water. I used a rabbit ceramic bowl to begin with. Reason being so they wouldn’t accidentally fall in and fall asleep. Puppies fall asleep in the weirdest spots. And the ceramic stays in its spot. But again I’ve not had experience with small breed puppies so anything you do I’d just be a little more mindful since they are so tiny.

I wonder why judges pick these dogs. It seems so crazy to me. When I see the German Shepherds with the sloped backs I feel so uncomfortable.

I’m not a breeder but have had a lot of experience in the past. I was feeding formula milk and puppy gruel (I did wheat biscuits for the first few days but there are better options now) consisting of mostly milk from three weeks old as their first solid meals. They were licking up milk for some days before then but not enough to not also have a bottle. Normally I’d do a morning gruel breaky and then a bottle top up and some formula in the puppy litter bowl as well. Then I’d blend up puppy dry food and mix it with their formula for a lunch meal and late afternoon and a dinner meal. And they’d have a bottle before bed about 11 or 12. Then puppy breakfast first light and repeat, until they started getting the rhythm of eating by themselves. By 4 weeks I’d just do the puppy dry food mush up except prepared it usually by letting it soak in hot water for maybe 15 mins or so until it was all super soft and I could mush it with a fork easy. You don’t want them to choke so you can use the fork to stir it around and run it through it finding any bigger chunks and take them out. I’d usually add formula to it at first. Feeding them breaky, mid morning, lunch, mid afternoon, dinner and bottle before bed. At 5 weeks they are really all ready to eat but can find it hard to chew still so I was still doing mush but each day as they got older I would make the food a little more solid until they were eating just soaked dry food by itself. I still bottled at night but it wasn’t necessary if they are eating well. You should know by looking at how fat or skinny they are, what their poops are like and if they are crying or not. By 6 weeks people used to have puppies go to new homes (thankfully it’s 8 weeks now), so they should be able to eat dry food properly and require no formula and have a breaky, lunch and dinner. Puppies should have a lunch meal right up until a few weeks or so into their new homes, but some people can’t do that and the pups are fine. You will have to get a feel for things yourself as each pup and size can be different. But once they are through those first three weeks you are heading towards safer ground to be able to be more flexible. If the dropper is working for you and it seems it is and they are now three weeks old, well done!!! They should be toileting on their own now too or just about, some are slower than others. You’ve done an awesome job to get so far. They will be becoming less fragile now and you can breathe a little easier. You’ll want to get some dewormer and make sure you’re trimming their nails carefully (just use a human clipper for now). There should be a breakdown on google about what to do each week for some guidance. Basically: The first two weeks - need bottle if not drinking from mum, keep warm (but not overheat - they can’t regulate their temperature yet), make sure they are toileting through mum’s licking or otherwise use a warm damp cloth to do it yourself and make sure they are gaining weight each day (even two weighs a day and either maintaining the morning weigh in or gaining on it). If no gains then more milk. On week three they should be toileting on their own or just about to. You can start to give toys and do a dewormer. And you can start solids but they will probably still need milk toppers. Week four it gets much simpler with the feeding and a lot more focus on getting them used to sights and sounds. And about week 5 they are pretty much little dogs that should be eating more solids easily. Some are a little slower than others so just watch them and make sure they chew so not to choke. Mum’s usually naturally start weaning at about 3-4 weeks but some will continue on but they will still need solids by then and the transition can take a week or two. By 7 weeks they should be able to eat proper dry food and just be like a normal mini dog. So yes, they could start licking up milk at 3 or 4 weeks, give it a try, just make sure it’s puppy formula and not just regular milk. You can use your finger to dab gently against their mouth so they get a taste but give them time and if they don’t take to it try again later that day and go back to bottles (or dropper). I’m not sure about the 8 hour stretch. If it’s say 9 am to 5 pm I think they really need a lunch so get home for that or ask someone to do it for you. I wouldn’t let them go without lunch until they are 8 weeks and even then I’d keep lunch going but for work purposes most people don’t and pup is ok. Sorry that was super long! Best of luck! Oh, and if the mum dog is having red teats or they feel super hot or they are broken up a bit, get her to the vet. It can turn quickly for a mother dog and she can get very sick and worse. If she is being subdued or not eating or anything out of the normal go immediately. Edited to add, just a little tip, when they get to 4 weeks and if you want to add some easy milk to their dry food you can use goats milk from the bottle. So no more formula if you want. But if you do a bottle or dropper I’d still make sure it’s formula. You can also use puppy can food if you don’t want to mush it up yourself. It will be much easier but in my experience some canned food causes messy toilets but I’m sure there are better ones on the market that will be ok.

Why did they change the German Shepherd in the first place to have the sloped back? What’s the reasoning behind it? It’s so obviously changed and in such a recent time that I don’t get why they allowed it, it was right in their face but they kept doing it, why? There has to be some back story or reason or logic because the sloped back doesn’t even look good so that can’t be the reason. Was it something to do with breeding in healthier lines and they happened to have the sloped back or what? In Europe are they still the straight backs? Forgive me for my ignorance. I love the German Shepherd but don’t know much about them.

Search ‘Leerburg formula’ there is an easy recipe for puppy formula. There are powder ones at the pet shops but can sometimes be hard to find. Di-vetelact is one of the best. You can test the suckle on your finger if need. They should automatically suckle on it and you can then tell if they have a good suckle reflex. Baby bottles work better than bottles designed for puppies. A normal newborn teat should work, though I’ve never had experience with such a small breed so someone else may know better there. Make sure puppy isn’t on back when given bottle and that milk is in the teat so no air is ingested. Burp them over shoulder afterwards like a human baby (not too hard though). You’ll want to sterilise everything too. Make some extra bottles up for that day and keep in fridge then heat in proper bottle heater or on stove. Test it on your arm before giving it. Not too warm but not cold. Edited to add: Also don’t tip bottle up high. It can take a couple hours of continuous trying sometimes (and lots of screaming and crying) before they finally suckle on a bottle, sometimes. If mum doesn’t produce enough milk pups can become weak and find it hard to then suckle on her. They will try to get every drop out and keep trying each teat in a bit of a panic and then give up and cry. I know some people have advised not to use dairy but plain vanilla ice cream really does wonders for dog milk production, also has natural calcium for mum and gives her strength. You can also get a tube filled gel called Nutripet by Troy. It is a meal replacement for sick dogs and a boost for nursing mums or low milk production. It works wonders too. You can even give just a drop on your finger of it to newborn pups for an extra boost, but only a little. Other than that, feed newborns every two hours until they gain a bit and then can stretch to 3 hours and continue as they get older. You can go a bit longer at nights and then by a few weeks or so just a bottle before bed (late at night) and one early first thing. And still bottles through the day. They usually drink more from a bottle than from mum at any one time so once they are a bit older you can stretch it out to early morning, mid morning, lunch, afternoon, evening, late at night, then a little older take out a couple of the day ones. They’ll let you know by the look of their bellies if they have too much or too little. They can start drinking their formula from a bowl when they are a few weeks old but they might not take to it quickly so will still need bottles. The first solids are all about play so they may not eat much the first few times but get it everywhere. So will need bottles until they start properly eating. Do not ever leave newborns to not have milk for 8 hours, not even a few hours. They fade fast. Take time off work. Make sure she’s peeing and pooping them. If not get a warm wet cotton ball or cloth and gently dab the privates (both) until it comes out and then clean them up. Do this regularly along with bottle. Keep them warm those first couple weeks and you will have some success. Make sure mum doesn’t step on them or lie on them. Good luck. Most of us have no idea what puppy raising can actually be like and aren’t cut out for it. No shame in that at all.

Yes he planned it out quite well but I doubt the thought crossed his mind about the dangers of having them there just for the afternoon or however long it was. What he was doing was illegal but it wasn’t illegal in a strict punishment sense. He was ‘only’ trying to hide the dogs from being found out because he wasn’t supposed to have them there. He hadn’t registered them for the same reason and since they weren’t registered council didn’t know about them and no chance of them being put on an aggressive list where they must take extra measures. What he did was very wrong but there was never any intention of causing any harm to anyone. He thought he was being clever by evading authorities and had he been found out would have been evicted and probably fined, or maybe just a warning to register them. He probably thought having them at his friend’s for the time of the house inspection would be just easy and quick and didn’t think further. Unless he knew people often climbed the fence or went through the gate to the backyard then why would it have occurred to him? Therefore he didn’t have any intent and that’s how the law sees it. He still caused her death through negligence and was very wrong but the law didn’t see it to give out a prison sentence, for whatever reason. So while he did plan it out and possibly had done it before, he would never have thought that would happen. So probably just thought he’d put them there for a short time and thought nothing more of it. Even if he knew they were aggressive to strangers or people in general, he put them secure behind a fence. How could he know what was going to happen? I’m cross too but just saying that seems to be the way the courts saw it, plus with him cooperating and being remorseful, however I feel no sympathy for his quote about how it was ‘just a tragedy and that’s all’.

It can be difficult to diagnose some things, sometimes vets probably do overlook or don’t listen too well to you. It can be good to try different vets if there’s an unresolved health issue. I know some vets can be very relaxed about some things and then other vets want to order tests that seem unrelated. I hope you find your answers.

It costs quite a bit does it not to vaccinate and chip a litter of pups? Not using that as an excuse but some oops pregnancies or ones who didn’t think it through or were unwilling to budget or pay for everything that can be involved… I can imagine someone having a litter and finding out that it costs so much to get these things done so lets just sell. But who do they sell to? I would have thought most would know they have to be vaccinated etc. Maybe there are plenty out there still who just don’t care.

I believe if a dog is declared dangerous they have to meet all these pen requirements and they get checked. This person’s dogs were not registered so would not have been on the dangerous list. I think it was so that nobody knew they ‘existed’ because he wasn’t allowed to have dogs where he was living. So when there was an inspection the dogs went to his friends home and it never occurred to him that one of his friend’s friend’s might go through the backyard to the house unknowing that dogs were there. Also, he may not have thought the dogs would be aggressive outside of their own property, or more likely he just didn’t think at all as it was only going to be for a short while. It is actually amazing the serverity of the attack given that the dogs weren’t even on their own property, suggesting that these dogs were known by him to be aggressive in nature with any other person. Given the information we have, it’s surprising he didn’t receive harsher penalties. Maybe there’s more to the story that we don’t know or something.

Just to note in the meter reader case, it was agreed upon usually but the company would also notify them that they would be attending the next day and this time, for some reason, they didn’t. The owners didn’t lock their dogs up behind the second fence because they didn’t know they were coming. They had listed them on the warning dog list with the company. They did everything they were supposed to do. Now we don’t know whether these dogs had a record or that the owners knew they were capable of doing what they did, but any dog can be extremely protective of their property. Difficult questions. You are spot on about other things that could happen at any motel with a small child unsupervised, even for a moment. How did the toddler get into the enclosure that the dogs were in? HOW? I don’t know if we know that. Was it not locked? Did they break the rules. Horrible horrific situation. Accidents happen in a moment of absent mindedness and people are left paying the price. So sad.

I think possibly because he cooperated with authorities, was remorseful and had no intention of something like that happening so I guess maybe they couldn’t charge him with more? He can’t have known that someone was going to come into the backyard of his friend’s who he put the dogs there just for a day or hour or whatever it was, but if he knew they were aggressive then owners should take measures to lock them up properly, however it doesn’t seem that worked in the little boy’s case at the motel. Because they were unregistered and not chipped and if he knew they were aggressive and didn’t take proper measures like he didn’t, I would have thought it should be a much stronger penalty. I suspect it was how he was so cooperative and remorseful and the lawyers worked it out. Absolutely horrible and yes he did cause a death through negligence. The thing is, this kind of thing could happen easily, you for whatever reason need to have your friend mind your aggressive dog/dogs for a day or maybe longer and someone who comes around through the side gate to the backyard unknowingly the dogs are there, it’s a recipe for disaster. If you know your dog even has a chance of acting aggressive like that, they need to be in a secure enclosure, one where no child can accidentally get into either. I think in cases like that, the person probably just thinks, oh it’s only for a day, it’ll be fine. And can’t be bothered doing the correct thing. I really do think going forward there should be harsher penalties in cases like these because if you have a dog, let alone an aggressive dog, it’s your duty (to other people and to your dog too) to not let your dog hurt anyone. It baffles me at how lazy some owners are.

What’s interesting is that if you are buying a kitten/cat or puppy/dog you don’t need to pay for the chip, that’s the breeders job or person you are getting it from. Desexed and registered costs of course but there are times when they have free or reduced costs, and I can’t imagine desexing cats would cost a lot. And registering them when they’re desexed is reduced. Sounds more like excuses. If you can’t afford those couple things then don’t get one.

These are the ones that get on the news and more people think most dog owners are irresponsible because of it, when it’s not the norm. They need some good dog stories. It could be they bred the dogs to not be chipped or maybe bought them illegally. Not registered and not desexed could be a money issue or a not going to be told what to do type of mentality.

I haven’t read the law myself but have heard from people who have locked their front gate (with dogs in it) and they get a letter from council saying they must keep it unlocked at all times so that meter readers can get in.

I have no doubt that in some type of future world not too far away that there will be basically no dogs. There might be some ‘illegal’ ones here and there though. There are more and more people in comments (elsewhere) that seem to want to ban all dogs. So many people seem to hate them. Why are they getting such a bad name? Dogs are like the best thing ever in my mind. And there are so many misconceptions on them, the breeding of them and everything else. It’s a shame these people don’t get to have good experiences with them because of those who misrepresent and don’t contain or control their dogs etc.

Dog beds. A tricky subject. I think the best bed for a dog who doesn’t tear beds up is a trampoline bed with some sort of mat on top that can easily be hosed down or go through the wash. Or a basket that can be hosed with a mat inside. Beds with zips. Awesome idea to unzip and put through wash, until your dog plays with the zip. Beds without zips, can they fit in your washing machine? They take longer to dry, they can get misshapen after a wash. Mats on the floor, easy to hose or wash but some dogs chew holes in them. Different dogs like different beds too. If you’re like me you end up with a dozen beds before figuring it out.

Yes one dog can do a lot of damage but I think in this case it took two dogs. Had it been just one dog I think there’s a chance it wouldn’t have been so severe. Hence why I don’t think anyone should have more than one breed of dog that is capable of that power and the breed has a history of aggression. Not sure about making that law as it’s so complicated, but I just think people should really think twice about why they’d want multiple dogs who can do that. Fact is it shouldn’t have happened. There was signage yes, but in the past they still went in as they expected them behind another gate, they had put the dogs on the warning list to meter readers to make sure that they knew when they were coming, but meter readers don’t always come when they say they will. The people didn’t lock the gate or put them behind the other gate when they went out, yet you aren’t allowed to lock the front gate says council. It shouldn’t have happened and it took several miscommunications to create this perfect storm that ended in absolute tragedy.

That is horrific and I think certain breeds are more prone to doing things in a pack like that than others. We’ll never know for sure but I imagine one dog on its own is not goign to be doing that sort of aggressive behaviour, at least not to that level, not in the circumstance that has happened. Why these people had multiple dogs that had potential to do this, which they knew to some degree did as they had put them on the warning lists to meter readers, I don’t know. Why do they want more than just the one dog with that power behind them? Or were they rescue dogs and the people just really love rescuing them? Who knows. But packs of dogs, of just two or more are something else. Even small terriers, some are terrier enough to go after anything and everything small but others only do that stuff in packs and are much more successful.

Yes and if just one starts acting aggressive it can ‘excite’ and switch the others onto it too. There are so many variables to know how to prevent this going forward. It seems laws/policies etc are already in place but there is miscommunication or people and companies being irresponsible still. I have one dog who does the bail up. Only a retriever but still very ‘scary’ to someone who doesn’t know dogs as I’ve witnessed a few times when I’ve had different family members who aren’t into dogs visit. They ignored what I would tell them and thought they could just walk right in and not care to even say hi to the dog. So dog barked deeply, not aggressive though as in no growling, and kept them at bay unable to get past. But I doubt they’d ever make contact. However given certain circumstances all dogs are probably capable of attacking, just many aren’t as capable or as quick to full on attack and not stop.

I read that they did have the notification set up so why then were they not home and why did they leave their dogs out when normally they would lock them behind a second gate? I think something like they have been told it will be on this date and then they come on a different date. Apparently meter readers often go ahead so that they get more done and get their companies off their backs.

It’s easy to slip up over time even with a tight regiment, owners making sure the other has locked the gate for instance and then one day miscommunication and they both thought the other had, or they were just going out quickly and it didn’t cross their mind. Not saying that’s what happened here, but if you do need to manage your dogs in a certain way like that then at some point you’re going to make a stupid mistake. The fact that they usually locked that second gate makes me think it was a mistake and not on purpose. I know of people who don’t have a second fence and their dogs just are at the front, they aren’t allowed to lock the gate as per council law so that meter readers can get in there. It’s a no win situation. Some people don’t know that their dog is capable or being next level protective when they aren’t home. It is carelessness but not necessarily anything more than a tragic mistake. The meter reader was used to going in there with the dogs locked behind another gate, I assume he didn’t see them so went in and then they charged out of nowhere. But perhaps he did see them, thought he knew them and went in and for some reason one turned and it progressed. I think that’s probably unlikely though given the severity of the attack. So what is the answer? Make guard dogs capable of doing this illegal? Pull up the companies who on paper tell the meter readers that they aren’t to go into a premises with a dog at the front but then write them up for not meeting their quotas etc? Make sure that the front gate is locked when dog is out there and then get a note from your council saying that’s not allowed? Which is it? There’s so much miscommunication. I’m surprised something like this hasn’t happened before. I’ve read they have many close calls and bites though. I don’t know the answers. I know even my retrievers would bark at anyone strange coming in (though they don’t have access to the front yard), but that they’d never make contact. And even though a known ‘dangerous breed’ may attack, not all would. So is it fair to just ban them all? I don’t know. It’s a horrible thing that has happened and work safe is investigating and something will come from it. I don’t know what will solve this and prevent future attacks. It’s a frustrating difficult situation.

It starts with the irresponsible people who choose to breed these cross breeds to sell exactly so someone can feel powerful having this terrifying looking dog on their property. And so many of them end up in the pounds too. Bad breeding is giving dogs a bad name to the general public. So many don’t like dogs because of some encounter they’ve had, when a dog well bred can be oh so good. Even the more ‘scary’ breeds can be well bred. As stated, true guard dogs aren’t designed to full on attack in a frenzy. I remember reading about a breeding program for a breed not usually considered to have aggression, their male they had planned to use as a stud displayed unusual aggressive tendencies so they decided to euthanise. They were never ever going to breed aggression into their lines. And the dog had a brain issue that kept the dog in a state of emotional pain. I always thought how brave that was of them and that they were strong enough to decide to do that out of love for their dog. Yet so many irresponsible people breed some dogs for aggression.