Cordelia

Puppies die from parvovirus on a much more regular basis than they die from vaccinations.

Exactly!

There IS and always has been a risk of pups having an adverse reaction to a vaccination. Sadly, VERY FEW pups will have an anaphylactic reaction (though usually occurs within 10mins of the vaccine being administered) but there is no way to tell which pup in a litter may react.

SEVERE adverse reactions are NOT a regular/common thing.... minor reactions such as swelling at the site, bit flat a couple of days later or, as is often the case with the KC vaccine... a very mild 'cold' may develop a week after vaccination.

Any and all deaths within 24hrs of vaccination SHOULD be reported to the vet AND the company making the vaccine (ie: Fort Dodge).

What symptoms were displayed by the pup post vaccination and as Fido asked... was an autopsy done?

The vet in question is merely expressing an opinion based on their experiences.

My vet can tell you his opinion to disagree with almost everything that vet has said.

Aggression to other dogs in situations outside the house is pretty normal dog behavior. Appropriate behavior.

Nope. Inappropriate behaviour in our society.

If you fault your dog for being aggressive to acquaintances while being walked on lead, you should not. He is guarding you. That simple. Honorable behavior.

What garbage. Most dogs are reacting in defence/fear or dominance when aggressive to other dogs. Very rarely has anything to do with guarding the owner and everything to do with guarding themselves! Whoever wrote that article should learn a little more about canine behaviour. :rolleyes:

If you fault your dog for aggression in a 'dog park' where he is running free, or on the beach, or in the woods, well shame on you; you're the one at fault for risking his life in such an uncontrolled situation.

More rubbish. Gives people the impression that they should never have their dogs off lead, playing with other dogs so they LEARN to be social. ;)

but you cannot automatically expect a dog to have friendly relations with animals from outside his own 'pack'. It goes against his whole evolution.

Goes against evolution????? :p Evolution has LESSENED many dogs predisposition to attack other dogs in social situations. We TEACH our dogs by socialisation from puppyhood so they get used to meeting other dogs!

You learn to introduce your dogs safely and carefully and MOST dogs handle this perfectly well when raised properly. (disclaimer: obviously there are some dogs who have difficulties when it comes to meeting other dogs outside their home 'pack'. I am not saying all dog aggression issues are caused by their owners).

Castration at an early age will cause the dog to become overly tall, as the growth plates in the long bones will not close at the appropriate time;

Overly tall??? a centimeter or 2 os NOT 'overly tall for a start. Apart from the fact that there is no way to prove the dog wasn't going to be an exact height anyway. Not like a Golden Retriever castrated at 8wks is going to grow to the size of Dane either... or even a GSD size. :D ...... and who cares anyway.... if the dog is being desexed, it isn't going to be a show dog, so who cares if it grows a touch taller.

The combination of these two factors sets the stage for your dog to have painful orthopedic problems.

Rubbish. So does being overweight, too much or not enough exercise, stairs in the house, injuries etc etc etc.

Where's the proof that desexed males have a higher incidence of ortho problems that undesexed dogs.

The statement that your dog will not automatically gain weight is rubbish.

Yes it is.

Removing sexual hormones will change his metabolism and make your dog more sluggish, resulting almost inevitably in weight gain.

Only because owners continue to feed the same amount of food/calories post orchidectomy. If they cut down the amount of food/calories given after desexing then their dog wouldn't suddenly get sluggish and stack on the kilos.

Also, muscle tone will decline after castration, and the classic result of this is a fat dog in poor muscle tone that ends up having a cruciate ligament rupture in the knee.

Oh Lord! Talk about scare mongering. Again..... exercise and diet controls muscle tone and weight NOT desexing on its own. Look at the number of castrated dogs doing agility and flyball!!! Hardly all falling down with destroyed crutiates and blobbing about the place.

Hopefully noone reads that without looking at all the other studies that show proof of the other side of the coin. :D

I've rescued several dogs who've needed an eye removed and all coped perfectly well.

Their depth perception can be a bit off for a while until his brain gets the new message that there's only eye. Help him by using a fave toy or something and getting him to fetch it from short distances at first, gradually increasing until he's got it

He'll be fine....... from one eyed Cav to another.....

You want a dog to scare people off.......

A Dane is perfect....... behind that REALLY stoopid exterior is a savage beast just waiting to devour an intruder!!!

Be afraid, be very afraid..............

There are some rather huge concerns over the health problems caused by feeding dogs (and kids actually) Soy products.

Dogs generally should NOT be fed Soy products, especially over a long period of time.

I hope you informed your GSD puppy breeder of your intention to experiement with a vegetarian diet??

Personally... if someone told me this, no way would I allow an adoption of one of my pups or dogs to someone wishing to feed a vegie diet. Unless there is a clear medical reason to feed a herbivore diet to a carnivore, then you are forcing your morals/beliefs onto an animal that is meant to have meat.

I sincerely hope that your Cavalier remains healthy during your PHD. (and I hope that you DON'T choose to feed a vegie diet to a large breed puppy that MUST have meat and bones in it's diet in order to grow!

This is Shelby, my sheltie at her fattest last year.

She weighed in at 14kg and was in serious danger of collapsing under her own weight.

If your mum's Sheltie is 20-25kg..... that is morbidly obese and it will kill him sooner rather than later.

My girl is now about 16yrs old or so and whilst still overweight, she's down to about 11kg and is MUCH happier.

SOOOOOOOOOOO pleased I don't live in a tick area!!! Vile bloody ceratures!

Supercoat give ALL my rescue dogs severe diarrhoea and I won't use it at all.

The Supercoat Special Care Puppy didn't give them the trots but it's so much more expensive when feeding over 30 poochies.

If a dog has OCD.... Clomicalm (in conjunction with a re-training programme) has proven to be very effective but it also takes a few weeks to reach levels in the body/reach peak effectiveness, so patience is also needed.

If a dog is merely badly behaved etc.... it isn't going to be at all effective.

Advocate (made by the same company who make Advantage) IMO is the best product and treats all 3. It also treats mites of variou descriptions.

If you want to do them seperately..... Advantage is still the one I would use as Frontline has proven to be useless in the long term for many folk.

For intestinal Worms..... DRONTAL tablets are the best on the market... unfortunately they are also the most expensive.

Good on You Fainty!

They always scoff that meal quickly. but turn their nose up at the dry food serves. She did like it the first couple of days, but has just started deciding to hold out for the yummier food.

Can't say I'd blame her either.

Why not just do 2 meals for her BUT.... don't cook it (better raw because cooking kills off some of the vitamins) and get rid of the corn, dogs can't digest it anyway unless it is pureed.

Regardless of breed, dogs need meat and more meat than vegies etc. That's why they have the teeth they do.

Only thing I would suggest is adding raw chicken wings to her diet more often. Brilliant form of natural calcium, great for teeth and a good source of fat for puppies.

If you really want them to eat the dry food..... put some chicken stock (or chicken soup) on it to moisten it.

Only start to worry if she starts behaving irrationally, crying for no reason or suddenly throws a coffee mug at your OH's head whilst screaming "I knew you thought I looked fat in that!"

The other thing though is that Red Back venom causes extreme pain at the bite site.

May have been a wasp as these can cause sweating at the sting site too... so can horse flies (one of mine was bitten by a horse fly yesterday and she had a small, wet swelling where she was bitten too).

malteses are yappers

I have 4 Maltese (x's) in care and only one of them is a bit noisy. The others rarely make a sound.

Definitely don't get a Sheltie! I have one... sure she's insane but boy is she noisy!!

Check out the Rescues (yeah ok..my lot too www.cordysrescue.com ) and read their profiles etc to see if they may suit initially. Phone around and then go and meet some dogs..... you just never know who may steal your heart

Just for any newbies who may read this thread, please be aware that homeopathic vaccines are NOT effective against fatal diseases like Parvo Virus and Distemper.

Homeopathic vaccines are NOT recognised by boarding kennels, training clubs etc and the dog should not be classified as 'immune' from disease or safe from passing disease on to other unvaccinated puppies etc.

Vaccines have also not been proven to be effective for the life of the dog after just puppy vaccines and a booster at 12mths.

The current school of thought is that every 3-4yrs is sufficient in an average, healthy pet as without having a titre done, there is no way to know if the immunity is waning or high.

KC can be fatal when complications arise and whilst the mortality rate is nothing compared to Parvo, it does occur occasionally in young pups, older dogs and immunosuppressed or compromised animals.

I have seen several dogs and pups over the years develop pneumonia due to secondary bacterial infection.

Whilst I find the KC vaccine useless to actually prevent the disease, it can reduce the severity of symptoms when using the nasal vaccine.

Be careful with Tea tree preperations. Whilst it can be good for some things, it should never be used on already raw/inflamed skin as it ca burn and cause further irritation.

Imflamol cream should fix it. I have some here if you want to try it.

Depending on the cause of the brain damage, if it is a degenerative condition, it will show up on a catscan or an MRI.

Behaviour will vary depending on which part of the brain is damaged (White matter or Grey matter) and the actual lobe of the brain (frontal etc) damaged.

Hope he's ok Mel.

This scares me a bit Cordelia.

No need to be frightened for my pups Jen.

Are you saying you vaccinate even if the dog appears not to be in good health?? The vaccine manufacturers do state on their labels that ONLY healthy dogs are to be vaccinated. So vaccinating suspected unhealthy dogs is against the manufacturers directions.

Did I say that? No I didn't. But perhaps I should explain myself a tad better anyway.

If a pup is obviously unwell, particularly with vomiting and diarrhoea when I arrive at the pound to pick it up....... it stays there and is euthanased.

I'm not going to risk the numerous other pups in my care for one already displaying possible symptoms of Parvo virus and it would be careless and irresponsible of me to do so (imo).

If I suspected a pup or dog was unhealthy, it would depend entirely on what symptoms it was displaying at the time before I made an educated decision for or against either bringing it home from the pound or vaccinating once in care.

Very rarely would I choose not to vaccinate.

(NOTE: again...i use PARVAC which is the killed virus and is safe for use in pregnant and lactating bitches, underage pups who have been/are being hand-reared, as well as being recommended for use in otherwise compromised pups if need be). ie: if the pup has been in contact with Parvo Virus within a day or so before coming into care but is still healthy in all other ways (including healthy weight), then I would vaccinate, watch and pray.

Please note that Parvac is allowed to be given by people other than a Registered Vet whereas C3 and higher vaccines are not due to the increased risks of reactions to live vaccines.

Sorry Cordelia, but it is right. Vaccines CAN and do cause the disease they are designed to prevent.

We shall just have to agree to disagree on that point. I have no intention of arguing about it.

There is a good chance that if he was vaccinated when he was very underweight (which the vet should not have done - only very healthy dogs should be vaccinated) that the vaccine actually gave him the virus.

Sorry, but that isn't right.

The vaccines for Parvo, either live or killed can not GIVE a dog the actual virus regardless of the weight or general health of a pup.

Being that this vet clinic is also the impounding facility for the area, the pups would have already been infected with Parvo virus prior to vaccination and desexing.

Putting an underweight pup IMO (regardless of whether it was happy and playful at the time) immediately out of its impound time, under a GA is not only foolish but a waste of the financial resources of a Rescue. I can't figure out why or how the pup was approved/passed as being fit for surgery.

For a dog/pup, being impounded creates/induces stress.

Stress lowers the immune system.

Putting a pup under a GA can lower the immune system for a short period. (all mine get a small shot of Amoxil at the time of surgery anyway).

So you have an underweight, stressed pup being given a live vaccine for at least 3 different diseases (depending on which vaccine is used..... increase potential for problems the more the pup is vaccinated for at the time), then put under a GA, then put into a new environment with different food, people and dogs and you've got the prefect level of high stress/highly compromised immune system trying to fight off a deadly disease!

I classify ALL pups as immuno-compromised until they have settled in here for at least 7 days and any pup under 12wks is automatically given a low dose course of Amoxil for 3 days to help boost the immune response to anything they may have picked up in the pound.

I vaccinate all pups on the day of arrival into care with PARVAC, the killed virus as it is safer to use on immunosuppressed dogs/pups and has virtually no negative side effects. If they have been infected with Parvo prior to coming into care, it may bring the disease to the fore quicker, but often, it kicks in an immune response and can actually help the pup fight the full blown disease if it occurs several days after being in care.

I mean no disrespect to the vet or to the level of care the pup has received BUT sadly, whilst Parvo quite likely would not have been avoided, the pup never got a proper chance to build his immunity or his body up so that he had a greater chance to beat the disease.

I sincerely hope that he survives. Poor little bub.

Desexing so soon after release from the pound can in fact bring Parvo into full blown disease much quicker due to the stress of it all.

Not forgetting that Parvo tests commonly show a false positive.

Odd that they don't have him on a drip regardless. NBM is always advised until they are over the worst so the gut can rest properly.

Hoping he'll pull through and be fine. Good Luck.

My Lab is very prone to hotspots and Supercoat has always triggered one.

Within 2 days of eating Supercoat (the normal one not the 'special diet' one), she'll get 1 or 2 hotspots so I haven't fed it since and she hasn't had a hotspot for 3yrs now.

I also find that Neocort isn't always effective.

I use a cream called INFLAMOL and it clears the hotspot up within days.

Killed Vaccines are actually safer and are just as effective as a live virus, more so if you are talking about Parvo.

I always have PARVAC here and if I haven't had a chance to get them straight to the vets, they get the killed vaccine shot before they get out of my car. At least that way I know they done before they hit my kennels.

If I get in an adult dog that I know has been vaccinated within the last 6mths but I can't prove it, then I give them a Parvac shot just so I know they are covered for Parvo virus which obviously, is the biggest danger in rescue.

Being allowed to use the killed parvo vaccine has been the difference between life and death for some rescue pups as you can give it if they have been exposed to the disease and they have a slightly better chance at not getting it. The live vaccine will bring the disease on and kill them in a day ( after the onset of symptoms). In theory, this isn't supposed to happen, but experience very much says otherwise.

Still......... I would give my eye teeth to be able to buy and give my own C3's legally as it would be so much cheaper. Vaccines may be the bread and butter of vets, but at $25.00 a jab, they are just bloody expensive for rescues who always have pups coming in.

Fair enough that the general population shouldn't have access to buying/giving live vaccines (since they have no reason to really), but for breeders and rescue people who have extensive experience in vet nursing etc, it's ridiculous that we can't do it under the law.

Perhaps if they had a short course, like the microchipping course whereby certain people would be allowed to give/buy live vaccines it would be a good idea. I know I would do it to get a certificate or whatever to show I was 'legally' allowed to give them or buy them.

Sub-cut fluids can be the difference between life and death in an emergency BUT.... should not be administered by a person with no experience nor should anyone with no nursing/vet experience be allowed to have IV catheters, injectable antibiotics etc in their home. It is way to easy to OD or do some serious damage to your pet.

I think you'll find that the info comes from a US site as I don't know any vets that would just give someone these things if they rocked up demanding them because they couldn't afford a vet bill. :rolleyes:

As for offering rice and chicken etc...... all oral solids and fluids should be stopped until the diarrhoea has slowed dramatically. (Could be up to 5 days). All feeding will do is stimulate the bowel and cause pain and the gastro to flare back up, hence compromising the pup further.

Potentially dangerous advice.