Cordelia

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh POO!!!!

I can't come along

Just a question..... Can we make the Xmas party a Sunday please??? Quite a few of us work on Saturdays.

Glad she seems ok now Rozzie.

I'm with Staffyluv on this. She may well have had a big seizure that you didn't see.

How odd.

Hope she stays fine

Keep her warm and snuggly Roz. Until you can get her to the vet for a diagnosis, it'll be passive nursing for her.

Try to keep her hydrated but be careful as she may have some difficulty co-ordinating her swallowing and her gag reflex may be affected. Just a few drips at a time via syringe every couple of hours. Don't feed her.

If you have some Nutrigel she may be able to cope with a small amount (1ml) of that every 4hrs so her BSL doesn't drop too low.

Hope she is ok.

Hi Rozzie,

Can you give a more detailed description?

Does she seem to have lost some co-ordination when walking? Scraping her toes on one side?

Is her head turned to one side (usually on the same side that she is having difficulty with when moving).

Is one of her eyes drooping?

Has she ever had a seizure before Rozzie?

What is the weird noise? Is it coming from her chest or is she just making noises like whimpering or odd sounds?

Our old Shelby girl went down hill very quickly.

She got her wings on the 1st of April. She died in my arms.

Shelbs was a special girl who shouldn't have even survived her stay in the pound almost 3yrs ago.

She was due for euthanasia at lunch time that day.... as I was leaving the pound, she hobbled over, sat down and her eyes shot straight through to my heart. She very quickly decided that she belonged to Sean though.

The day she came home:

Shelbs in January.

She had been gradually going blind but in the week before she died, she was almost completely blind... not that it stopped her trying to chase anything. She slowed up dramatically and I knew she wouldn't be with us much longer. Sean and I discussed when we would need to take her to the vet one last time.... she took the choice out of our hands. I had been out that morning and she held on until I got home.

It was very quick... too quick. I was cuddling her, told her she could go get her wings and drive God nuts, barking at the blank walls in Heaven.... and she did! (now she suddenly decides to be obedient!)

She had congestive heart failure and bowel cancer.

One was born and one dies. Before she died I was at the birth of Joshua, Rachaels bub... I came home and she died. I'm sure she is a Guardian Angel now.

This was the last photo I took of her, just 2 weeks before she got her wings.

Sorry sorry... it's bloody Pixie again posting under the wrong username

Hi there,

Just thought I would pop in to let folks know that because of the workshop and work with Dreyfus on his nightmarish pulling on lead....... I've been able to work with him more without having my shoulder destroyed and he has now been adopted into a wonderful family who will continue his training.

I could get him to focus, sit, shake hands and occasionally drop (all once he had run off some energy in the paddock here) but I had difficulty walking him on lead due to the pulling you would have seen.

After the workshop on Saturday, I took him for several short walks on Sunday and had a family with a young bub come to meet him in the afternoon.

The difference was astounding! He was obviously excited about meeting new people (as you would have seen, he has a glorious temperament) but it was SO easy to calm him down.

His new family understand the need for consistancy and dedication to continuing his training as he is still very much a puppy head but could easily see his potential to be an outstanding and very well behaved pooch!

Thank you to Steve for doing the workshop and for allowing a few of my guys to benefit from your expertise.

Thanks too to Sas, Winterpaws and Gillbear for taking them with you.

Jodi is doing well on lead consistantly now and whilst her barking is still an issue, I'm working on solving that.

Jefferson has a great need to be in a home environment. His issues with other dogs would have been seen by others. Honestly, he isn't like that all the time. He is a good boy and he is very bright and will learn quickly that his approach to meeting other dogs doesn't need to be that way. (he has never been attacked here by the others he hangs out (2 adult males). He attacked Oscar when he got home on Saturday afternoon, and again a bit later that evening but after the 3rd attempt at re-introducing them, he was perfectly fine, went into a playbow and they happily played again.... and they have been perfectly fine together again since.

Anyway, thanks again. ;)

Oh Kendall I am so very sorry.

Maggie was one hell of a pooch. Thank you so much for giving her your heart.

Thinking of you in this sad time.

my vet didn't have sunction equipment to remove the puss from her abdominal cavitity so he went through 13 bags of 1litre bagged saline, he hit me up $30 odd per bag (they cost less then $12 each) and $11 per bag for dispensing.

Holy Hell!!

A bag of Hartmans Solution costs a vet $2.80 to buy from the supplier!!

Thank you Jim.

Rimadyl can have a negative effect on the liver if used over a long period.

My Lab was on it for a couple of weeks when she was first diagnosed with HD at 2yrs of age. Was great the first 3 times she was on it (2 mths at a time). Unfortunately, she developed a sensitivity to it and will now throw up for hours a few hours after taking it.

Metacam is a 'safer' drug but obviously, you would still need to be informed of any possible adverse reactions.

At some point during production........ yes phoenix. It's called being able to prove "Quality Assurance" via appropriate research.

Oh Hello Pup's Mum, nice to see you popping your head in here. :rolleyes:

From your own website (bottom of the page):

http://www.cordysrescue.com/?Acknowledgements

still no colouring of your judgement?

Nope. I used to work for them too you know.

If my judgement was so clouded, I would still be feeding it (if I could afford it) instead of having my guys on BARF which is better all round.

However, thank you for reading my site so thoroughly. It's nice to see folks taking such a dedicated interest in my Rescue.

If I were an independant rescue I would take what I could for the dogs from wherever I could. I wouldn't give a rats if Codelia fed all her dogs on Iams for free for ever, the two are completely separate.

Thank you Rusky.

Agree to disagree on the subject of certain aspects of animal testing as our experiences and perceptions vary greatly.

ETA: Which brands of foods do you feed your rescues, and how are your supplies of foods obtained? Do you purchase them or have them donated or both? Perhaps this is what is colouring your judgement? Please feel free to ignore the questions if you'd prefer. I'm only asking out of curiosity... 

My views are not based on what I feed my dogs as they are ALL on a BARF diet because they do better on that than commercial food. The less squishy poos here, the better as no one dry food will suit every dog (and BARF does here anyway).

My chicken mince is obtained fresh from an abattoir and the vegies are obtained fresh from the Fruit shop up the road. My dry food (very small amount) is donated by The Great Aussie Pet Food Company. The actual food is Maxi Pup (no colours, flavours or preservatives). Bones are obtained from my local butcher.

Hope your curiosity is satisfied.

Would you donate your dog to the lab? why is your dog different to any other dog?

Aside from the fact that I think this is a completely stupid question as I wouldn't 'donate' or sell my dogs to anyone at all, IF I was to decide that I had to rehome my dog and was approached by a Lab that needed dogs for a food trial, AND I could go and visit their facility AND find out exactly what the trial entailed.... then I MAY consider it. But I'm not considering giving any of my dogs away to anyone in a Lab or otherwise so it is a positively idiotic question in the first place. :rolleyes:

It is acceptable to you too that vivisection was admitted to 2003 then they moved the lab.

Coming from a medical background.... vivesection has its place when all regulations and COP's are adhered to.

And what does moving the Lab have to do with anything?? Is it now in a Batcave somewhere where noone in authority can find it in order to do SPCA checks and the like??

I do not think there is any reason for any dog to be kept in a lab to test ruddy dog food. I do not support companies who use this practice.

So you feed BARF then I assume.

I will speak up at every opportunity I do what I am able to. I was active when young, I am old now, but I still have a voice.

Everyone has a voice and the right to express their view.

I am sad that you find it so funny that you have little men rolling around laughing, that you laugh at the lab animals makes me very sad.

And I too am sad that you didn't notice that I was laughing at comments, NOT at the dogs in laboratories. But he's another little man rolling around just because he is amusing to watch...

And Lilly,

do they live in a home environment with regular human interaction? Do they have the freedom of a large yard to run and exercise in? Do they live with a human family and participate in family activities?

Ok, so anyone who lives in an apartment with NO yard, or lives on a block that is small ..... their dogs don't have a large yard to run around in now do they??

How many dogs live in the yard with less human interaction and don't participate in family activities??

Would you volunteer your own pet to complete a feeding study for, say, Iams? 

Well, would you? 

Stupid question and already answered it even though I found it mentally painful to do so.

Come on, let's be realistic. A laboratory cage is NO place for a canine to live out its life. I happen to oppose animal testing b/c it is inherently cruel and for those who are convinced that the "new improved" regime is just fine and dandy, again, why don't you volunteer your own dogs for these experiments?

I agree that living in a kennel is not an ideal situation for any dog. BUT..... there are ways to prevent certain behaviours etc with special programs being devised and implimented as diversional tactics.

Any company or university performing testing must comply with Codes of Practices for their facilities that are NOT just made up by them, they are standards of care and animal welfare that are devised by specific Animal Welfare committees ie: SPCA (and out here it is the Dept of Agriclture and the DPI) etc.

They are inspected regularly to ensure compliance with the codes and in this day and age, none of the huge companies would dare fail in those..... one thing PETA and the like have done well.

I and others object to the manner in which these "feeding trials" are conducted. Dogs are housed in small kennels with minimal human contact and minimal contact with other canines. Is it acceptable to have dogs confined to a small concrete kennel day in, day out, for many years? Is that humane? Would your dog enjoy living like that? If there is nothing wrong with these feeding trials, why not offer your rescues to these corporations? After all, it's a better life than being on death row in a pound, isn't it? 

Actually, if a dog is on death row in a pound...... there is no life. Well, not after a week or so anyway. Can't compare the 2 as one is certain death, the other.... high potential for a life AFTER the trial has finished. I know which I would prefer to have dogs in.... and it isn't sitting in a pound waiting to die.

To compare this to boarding kennels is a stretch, to say the least. The average boarding kennel stay is two weeks...the average laboratory stay is probably a *bit* longer than that. The average boarding kennel has the dogs out at least twice-daily for exercise in a grassed yard (sometimes with other dogs too!). The average boarding kennel provides human contact throughout the day...including play time. The average laboratory does not. The average boarding kennel includes activities for the dogs...such as swimming, agility courses, or kongs to empty. The average laboratory does not.

You talk about the average Laboratory....what about the average boarding kennel? They DON'T get the dogs out for exercise.

Apart from anything else... people pay for the privilage of having their dogs played with at many of the boarding kennels.

Again.... COP states that the dogs in Labs must have play time and mental stimulation of some descrition and they DO get quite a bit of human interaction. Just because it isn't done sitting on a lounge watchin tele doesn't mean it isn't done.

The lab dog doesn't have an average dog's life.

But it doesn't mean that they would be better off dead imo either. Each to their own.

Please remember that no company would freely admit that they treat animals in less than humane ways b/c the resulting publicity would be a potential death knell to its business. But also please remember that just b/c a company once admitted to such horrors, it didn't have any other option but to admit to it. There was irrefutable evidence. To say you believe that this company no longer conducts its trials in such a manner is possibly a little naive...it's not as if the company would readily volunteer such information again, in the absence of firm/concrete evidence, would it? 

The IAMS facility has employees who are members of PETA. They knew that at the time of employment too. Why would any company doing animal testing of any description, employ anyone who is known to have an affiliation with the largest, most aggressive (and most psycho) Animal Liberation movement in the world if they weren't being honest about their Animal Welfare Practices.

Common sense dictates sometimes.

Nestlé Purina Petcare

Nine beagle dogs were kept in single isolation for 15 weeks, during which time their diets were changed every three weeks. The dogs suffered from diarrhoea in an experiment which has no relevance to improving the care of pet dogs. In addition to the inevitable distress of social isolation, frequently changing dogs' diets can also be stressful as they do not have the opportunity to establish a dietary routine.

(Published 2003: Conducted by Veterinary University of Vienna, Austria; Hanover University, Germany; Nestlé Purina PetCare R&D, Nestlé Research Centre, Lausanne, Switzerland)1

Your point? Dogs coming out of the pound have the trots for a day or so while getting used to a new diet. 3wks is plenty of time to establish a dietry routine in typical cases (ie: where a diet is not establishing food based allergies etc).

Single isolation......... is that animal libbers terminology for "being in a kennel by themselves?? You know, like they do in boarding kennels every day! ;)

Forty-eight labrador retrievers were kept in a laboratory environment for fifteen years (unless death occurred sooner).

15yrs is a bloody good age for a Labrador even living in a pet home!!

Dogs were weighed weekly, x-rayed annually, had heart scans, ECGs and blood pressure taken.

You mean they did completely NON-INVASIVE veterinary procedures on those poor dogs??? ;)

Once a year the dogs were starved overnight then injected with glucose, before blood samples were taken from their jugular vein five times in two hours.

Once a year for a routine BLOOD SUGAR LEVEL TEST?? How barbaric!!

Taking blood from the jugular is the quickest and least stressful way to do it (from experience watching dogs fighting to get their leg out of the grip of the vet for blood tests ).

To get an accurate result it is essential they not be fed at least 12hrs prior to the test (same in humans).

Body weight of feed-restricted dogs was on average 26% lower than the body weight of litter mates. Adult body weights for this group were as low as 22kg; the ideal body weight for Labrador retrievers is up to 34kg.

34kg for a decent sized male Labrador that is edging towards chubbiness.

I also note that there is no explanation as to the reason for that particular test. Would you happen to know WHY that test was done? or don't they mention that on whatever site you got that from??

Eighteen dogs (6 German Shepherds, 6 English Setters and 6 Miniature Schnauzers) were kept in single isolation for 12 weeks and fed either dry or canned dog food. Four dogs either became ill or refused to eat the food offered during the study.

(Published 2002: Conducted by Nestle Purina PetCare Company, St Louis, USA)3

There's that single isolation again. read.. kennelled like any other kennelling facility that boards dogs.

Out of 18 dogs owned by DOLers currently living at home and fed either dry or canned food for 12wks I'll bet that at least 4 dogs refuse to eat whatever they are given or fall ill for some reason too.

C'mon Lily. What was the particular study trying to ascertain, WHY did the dogs refuse the food? Why did the 4 dogs become unwell and what was the diagnosis?

Are those quotes you listed from a the actual studies or were they picked out of the studies by the animal lib group and edited to conveniently shock the general public into believing that something more sinister was happening throughout the studies being done??

Note the wording they use..... it's all for shock or horror value to invoke a highly emotional response from people. They got you didn't they! ;)

There are more ethical ways of testing foods on dogs and cats.

What? Other than........ feeding it to them????

Ok.... so what are the other more ethical ways of trialling dog food??

IMHO a laboratory is not a lifestyle choice for a companion animal

Lifestyle choices???

These dogs have minimal contact with humans and virtually no stimulation b/c they're kept caged for much of their lives. I liken this to battery hens and I also oppose the keeping of any animal in a cage that is not large enough to offer reasonable comfort levels to the animal in question. 

Oh! yep... the videos you've seen.

Heres some info for you from the Iams website: (assuming you are getting your info from the Peta (etc) websites).

An animal rights organization is making misleading allegations about feeding studies performed for The Iams Company at an external facility that we left in early 2003. These allegations not only are old, but also are highly sensationalized and laced with untruths.

Here are the facts about Iams:

FACT: Posing as an animal lover, an activist "undercover investigator" was hired for an Iams-funded role in the contract facility. She had responsibility for the socialization and enrichment of the dogs participating in Iams' feeding studies, and was paid to develop and implement a program to ensure that these dogs were well cared for. Rather than focusing on her assignment she captured video not of the scenes of the socialization and enrichment activities she was being paid to develop and deliver, but of dogs and cats that were housed in the same facility but not a part of Iams studies.

FACT: Iams doesn't kill dogs or cats! It's against the animal studies policy that has been in place for years.

FACT: Iams does not authorize the debarking of any dogs.

FACT: Iams has an industry-leading global animal studies policy that ensures the care and welfare of every dog and cat participating in our feeding studies.

FACT: Iams is committed to the ultimate elimination of laboratory feeding studies as scientifically valid alternatives become available -and we are actively using, developing and seeking alternatives!

FACT: Iams takes full responsibility for the destiny of each and every dog and cat participating in our feeding studies, a program established as of July, 2003. Dogs and cats are adopted into loving homes after they stop working with Iams or they retire with Iams.

There are several other links on the page that refer to correspondance to PETA regarding their trials and studies.

Iams Page

The Animal Lib psycho's gave Iams hell and much of the footage you see on the peta website is bogus (ie: not from Iams research facilities) or very very old.

Iams also have a rehoming programme for their dogs after they are no longer needed.

What else are they meant to test DOG FOOD on???

By the way it says KC is airborne (3m general area after coughing) but also by saliva

Airborne meaning that the infected saliva is carried via airborne particles from a sneeze, cough, slobber etc. So effectively, we are saying the same thing... just doesn't have to be a glob of saliva on the floor...... it would be shooting through the air from the dog as well .

Hi Dan,

Thanks, that'd be great.

1) combining more than one disease together in a vaccine ups the risks: single disease vaccines are better

I agree completely....... but apart from Parvo and the KC vaccs, the others aren't made to be given individually. I wish they were (as I recall reading somewhere... can't remember where though, that the Distemper vaccine give life long immunity?)

2) Modified - live, Live and recombinant vaccines all have their own issues: some worse than others

Agreed. Like any medication has it's negatives and positives. It's deciding which outweighs either side.

3) The Adjuvants they use to hold the Vac together are often worse than the vac itself

How and why?

4) some breeds are more at risk, as are dogs with some conditions

Definitely. Colours too..... Black and Tans are higher risk for some diseases and reactions to meds.

Thanks Dan but I don't intend to buy an entire book on the issue.

I would prefer the the information asap which is why I have asked for specific links to actual studies done and published on the net.

Are her studies published on the net at all??? (where I don't have to pay for the privilage of reading them).

If they completely mopped the floor and then let people in and they slipped on the wet floor........ (guaranteed it would happen at some point to someone who wuold then sue!).

If they mopped then waited for it to dry completely..... total waste of time.

Spot cleaned the floor...... ever tried to see a small glob of spit on a lino floor??

Rule... don't allow any dog to lick the clinic floor.

KC is airborne.

Walking in the same clinic after an infected dog has walked out of it could just as well have been the mode of transmission without any actual contact.

I suggest Jack you do some homework - Fort Dodge has already admitted both here and in the US that live culture vaccine can cause Parvo to develop (in fact they took certain products with live cultures off the US market because of the reported death rate)

Fort Dodge recalled the ProHeart vaccine for Heartworm at some point but I can't find when they recalled their other vaccines. (not sayng they haven't... my vet doesn't use the Fort Dodge as they have seen a higher incidence of mild reactions to it.... they use "Companion").

Could you please provide a link to studies done (I mean actual scientific studies done by a Vet Lab, not just someones opinion or study done by a naturopath etc) where the parvo vaccine has been proven to cause clinical disease?

like me he has significant qualms about Fort Dodge - as do the hundreds involved in class actions against the company in the US.

And I wasn't disagreeing with having qualms about the companys specific vaccines either.

I wouldn't have my dogs or pups done with Fort Dodge either due to problems they have had in the past regarding their vaccine against heartworm and what my vet has seen with the C4 of theirs.

I have since found many cases especially in large breeds that have

had pups vaccinate only to get parvo within days of vaccination. Some have lost several pups from the litters.

Those pups would have already been incubating the disease.

Live Vaccine does not cause them to develop Parvo. If they are incubating the disease however, it can cause the disease to present itself quickly (not by boosting the disease itself but by lowering the threshold of immunity initially).

Parvac (CSL) is a safer vaccine and means the pups are only developing an immune response to one disease at a time instead of 3,4,5 or 7 depending on what is chosen. Unfortunately, as far as I am aware, we can't get a C2 seperately here to cover Distemper and Hepatitis and they don't make a killed vaccine for use in dogs for those diseases. (I wish they did though).

There are more reports of very small breeds having reactions to vaccines rather than larger breeds. Chihuahuas and Maltese being the most common as far as I am aware.

My second child ended up in hospital, doing more research we didn't have our 3rd child vaccinated for most things. I know with children it's actually a lot more common then the public knows about. 

The most common cause of severe reaction to vaccinations in children/babies is because they use egg protein as the base and a reaction to this is the issue, not the actual 'disease'.

Your 3rd child could possibly have been booked into hospital to be closely monitored to ensure immediate measures can be taken in case of a reaction.

I have seen kids die from Measles because they weren't vaccinated. I have also cared for kids who reacted violently to vaccinations....... but delving deeper into genetics, many of these kids also had other problems so the vaccine was not 'directly' responsible for causing the global disabilities they developed.

Like vaccinations in dogs, the public DO know there is a risk but most choose not only to protet their kids but to also protect the community in general.

Considering there are MILLIONS of dogs vaccinated every year....... the risk of severe reaction IS very small.

Vaccinated against Parvo...... your dog has a very small chance of reaction and possibly death. Don't vaccinate........ and when your pup gets Parvo (and if you live in a populated area, it will get it) ...... there is almost no hope for survival.

That's a much bigger risk.

You may well need a #40 surgical blade if the coat is really bad anyway, and it is really easy to cut the dogs skin if you can't tell where the matt ends and the skin begins.

No need for a #40..... a #10 can get through the deepest matts on any coat. I only own #10's and get through anyones coat.

As for 'human' and 'dog' Valium. No such thing. Sorry. It is exactly the same drug.

No groomer should be actually administering sedative drugs for their CLIENTS dogs. It should always be owner responsibility and they should stay with their pet whilst being groomed imo.