Cordelia

Massive doses of garlic need to be eating in one lot to be poisonous. Small amounts on a daily basis (ie: 1/4 or less mixed with dinner) isn't dangerous.

O-Ren.. change to Advatage or Advocate and get an exterminator in as there is likely to be a nest in your yard/under your house by now. Frontline is useless.

Without treating your yard and house properly you'll still end up with flea problems. There are a few companies around now who use a product that dries quickly and is biodegradable... dogs still need to be gone for 4-5 hrs though.

Hi SKS169 - if it was me in this sitation then I would simply give Mum lots of normal Milk from the fridge. The calcium and fat content will be of huge advantage. I would not waste money on fancy "supplements". The good old KISS priciple (Keep it Simple St_pid) is one in which I am a true Believer.

Many dogs don't actually tolerate cows milk very well so I wouldn't advise giving it to a lactating bitch 'in the hope' it might help.

BIOLAC is one of the best things you can give mum to help increase milk production and encourage fluid intake (as they like the taste). It is specifically designed for pups and we always give it to our bitches prior to and post whelping, especially if they are off their food or to help increase milk production.

may I just add, that if puppies are round-bellied and looking settled, maybe she just doesn't appear to have much milk, as she is only producing for 2.

Exactly.

With 2 pups, mum may not be getting enough stimulation to produce more milk, but again, with only 2 bubs, she doesn't actually NEED to produce vast quantities either.

Pop off to the vets as others have said if pups are dropping weight or restless.

I agree.. brilliant obedience but having a dog constantly walking into my leg and not being able to move that arm normally would annoy the hell out of me too.

If what you have stated regarding what she did to your dog is true..... then she deserves every bit of mail saying that she is a cruel bloody cow!

I would belt anyone who dared touch my dogs in the manner you described in your posts and they would be reported to the RSPCA pronto.

Give it time... she won't need to wait for humans to attack her via email.. a dog will do it in real time. What a stupid and cruel woman.

No apologies.... if what you said was true.

OMG!!!! WHAT DIDYA DO TO HIM!!!!!! ;)

Poor bugger looks embarrassed!!

Oh I'm getting wheezy from laughing ..... *runs away now*

Leptospirosis is very rarely found outside of tropical and sub-tropical areas of Australia.

You're in the Blue Mountains... absolutely no need for lepto vacc.

Do we even have testing available for Corona Virus in Australia yet?? Last I heard we didn't. I don't see the point in it as Morgan stated... it' can be fatal if left untreated in pups but rarely affects adults (since it also isn't tested for anyway) and is treated exactly the same as any other gastro virus... with fluid therapy.

The Vte put the dog on Science Diet RD. He is also being fed BARF.

No need for both. Science Diet is chockers full of chemicals and fillers.

BARF is a suitable diet for him to be on and he'll lose weight more effectively WITHOUT SD poisoning his system.

That's a hell of a lot of weight to lose in a week... too much in fact.

You want gradual weight loss of actual fat, not a massive loss of fluid.

I recently had a Labrador come in who weighed 65kg... good weight for his size is approx 36kg (he's a big fella for Lab anyway). He's losing weight slowly and steadily.

With regards to the coat... good diet and basically, sometimes it's easier just to shave down and start over as the dead/matted coat will never return to the lovely coat it should be if just brushed out...

Definitely a lucky pooch to have found such a caring home.

I think that some are taking Myszka's comments too personally. She ISN'T pointing the finger at anyone nor is she blaming anyone for not taking this dog on. She is (and correct me if i am wrong please) just saying that she HOPED someone (or wished someone) could have assisted. She isn't trying to make anyone feel guilty for not helping and she isn't judging anyone.

When you do something professionally (training, grooming, nursing or rescue etc) you instantly open yourself up fpr misinterpretation when you give advice or offer assistance in any way. There is always a risk in doing so. Weighing up that risk... many choose to try helping as best they can.

I've learnt over the years to keep my opinion to myself on certain subjects because it simply isn't worth the crap that can follow... hence why I try not to get involved in threads where my opinion goes against the more emotionally sensitive opinions of others. Sometimes, I don't try so hard not to post because it might just help someone.

Myzka, i'd really like to know if the dig about length of time was aimed at me?

I don't believe that it was Cosmolo.

I am totally disgusted at the treatment given to K9, who whilst trying to help, was bombarded with abuse by ignorant and deplorable human beings. These same people read his posts and ask him questions about his methods and gain from his knowledge. I believe an apology from them would be in order.

There'll be no apology. I'm far from ignorant and I don't give a toss if someone thinks I am 'deplorable'. K9 is a big boy and can take care of himself I'm sure.

I have NEVER attacked K9's training methods or him on a professional level and I regularly refer people to him and his website for guidance, and training advice if they have sought advice from me and I can't help them. I have NEVER said k9 has not helped me in the past on the very few occasions where I needed advice or a more experienced opinion on an aggression issue I had trouble dealing with. I was grateful at the time and he knows it. He donated a leather lead which I love and I have a collar that was given to me when he decided to keep Leonard the Lab who came from here. I hardly think that makes me an ingrate for his occasional advice though. He has had several paying clients from my referrals so I think it worked both ways.

Yes, the thread in Rescue went down the toilet but K9 defended his opinion just as I did. Respect goes both ways and everyone is free to disagree but me behaving somewhat childishly doesn't mean that I have no respect for other trainers on this forum because I do hold several trainers here in high regard.

I don't seek advice or ask questions of trainers here very often simply because I don't need to. I DON'T take on dogs with known aggression problems simply because I don't believe they should be returned to the commuity. I have my own safety to think of and that of my family, including my own and my rescue dogs welfare. I have no inclination to put myself in danger of being bitten if it can be avoided. I do deal with low level aggression at times and it is often easily diagnosed and fixed.... if not... then the dog is pts. I don't cause their issues but whilst I am obligated to care for an animal, I am also obligated to prevent an animal that is obviously dangerous from being put back into the community.... and I don't care if there's a trainer who can fix it over time. Time and space is something that has a limit in Rescue. For those who don't have those constraints.... that's great.

There are too many dogs in need of care who DON'T have aggression issues....

She's only been with you a week and she's still a bub..... UTI is unlikely based on the info given...

Give her a chance to just settle in. She's finding her way and her place in a new world for her and it can throw them out of sorts for a few weeks.

Lilly (my greyhound) used to eat snails if I wasn't quick enough to stop her...they made her *very sick*.

Lilly would be in the minority... as in VERY rare then. Poor girl.

Where on earth does anyone have a wet enough garden for snails ATM? Our place is so dry there's no hope of a snail outbreak...

It's been raining in Sydney for 2 days.

they're not good for a dog to eat...doubly so if anyone in the area is using snail bait.

Absolutely, if they are baited BUT... kids have been eating snails for years and the worst they get is a freaked and grossed out mother or sibling who will later use the story at their 21st party. :D

Dogs will eat all sorts of vile things and unless you live in a sub-tropical area it s HIGHLY unlikely that your pup will get even remotely ill from your average, unpoisoned garden snail. They usually have a good crunch, realise they taste like crap or get bored and go find something else to do.

Squish the buggers if you see them but I really think there are other things to worry about than a normal pup doing what they do.

When I asked the person who was caring for her regarding her diet I was so very confused about the answer. The dog was getting things like : weetbix, bread and milk, same as my hubby and I eat, but no meat was mentioned, the dog is certainly not thin and has been with this carer for around 6 weeks.

Whever had your girl is an idiot.... not from Box Hill, Sydney is she?? Diet is familiar.

Go easy on the dry food until she settles in. Being on a rubbish diet and going to a premium quality one can give them a very queasy belly until her body adjusts.

Feeding chook mince and minced vegies will be fairly gentle on her stomach. Depending on her overall size (how much does she weigh and depending on her type.. German being heavier set/American being finer and somewhat lanky) will determine how much she should be fed. My Dane is tall for a bitch but she's also quite fine boned ... though she eats approx 2kg of fresh mince and vegies a day.

Definitely would love to see pics!

also that it can throw the dogs balance out cause the tail acts like rudder when they turn.

Dogs don't rely on their tails for balance the way cats do so amputation won't affect his balance at all.

I've heard it can be really painful for the dog

Any amputation as an adult is a painful procedure but they get over it within a couple of weeks. Losing a tail as an adult is nowhere near as painful as losing a limb so just make sure you get a few days worth of pain meds to take home should you deide to get it removed.

Gorgeous girl btw

She's only been with you a week? Pity the previous owner didn't mention that she might be due to come into season. Is she an ex-racer or from a pet home??

Would be a good idea not to walk her while she's in season though... it will encourage other dogs to visit your place as well as possibly escape to get to her.

I don't know what folks are getting so heated about.

Most spaniels, Retrievers (obviously not Labs), setters etc grow more coat once they are desexed REGARDLESS of the age they are done. Anyone who has had one of these breeds in rescue long enough would have seen the difference before and after. I don't see why owners would get upset about it.... if they don't want to brush the dog every day, get them shaved off or trimmed. :p

Diet plays a role too though. Well, with the dogs here it does anyway, most likely due to several factors, including desexing... in most cases.

Our Grandma Kate (CKCS) is 11yrs old and not desexed and she has a copious coat that knots dreadfully if not kept in check (I shave her in summer for comfort). I'm sure the amount she'd been bred by her previous owner and the obviously poor diet she had been on did her coat no favours, but since she's been living with us, her coat thickness and length has at least doubled.... as I said, desexing has nothing to do with her coat.

Being an SBT, it may be advisable to have a skin scraping done to ensure she doesn't have mange.

Frontline is notorious for a multitude of reactions (my Lab gets a very sore local reaction to it) and is also much less effective on fleas than Advantage or Revolution.

Pop her on a very bland diet of chicken and rice (or tuna and rice) and see if her skin improves.

QUOTE(Cordelia @ 7th Oct 2006 - 08:38 PM)

Ok.... I am going to catagorically state that you know NOTHING about true seperation anxiety if you believe that training in drive (or any other singular method any trainer may be spouting at the time) is a cure all for ensuring a dog stays home.

Please, please, please! tell me, when or where have I said that training in drive would be the solution for separation anxiety?

Separation anxiety is a behavioural problem, that must be dealt accordingly, different training techniques must be employed in this case. A dog behaviourist might be able to shed some light on how to deal with it... but I have never said training in drive is the solution do S.A.

I have said however, that training in drive would work with any dog. All you have to do is find the right drive to train the dog in. I might be wrong, so please correct me if that is the case. But behaviour problems are a totally different set of training issues that might need different training technique. Still a training issue none the less

I've had it. I did not disrespect anyone until now. there's so much abuse im willing to take. I'll take my little opinion and I'm still an idiot. But I will not abuse anyone.

You have said that training can and will prevent a dog from escaping..... you didn't take into account that there may be many more complex issues involved in WHY a dog escapes.

Training in drive will NOT work with every dog... or with every owner so please... stand corrected on that. Finding the right drive (prey, food, play etc) isn't always as easy as you seem to think it is.

My Great Dane is well trained and has excellent recall.... she has drive ONLY when she can compete with my Labrador and ONLY then for a short period of time before she goes off for a snooze. Push her past the point where she switches off and she'll go into melt down. She is very soft and pushing her (even gently) causes her to shut down, lay down and renders her unable to learn anything. Training in drive DOES NOT work for her.

You are basing your experiences on a dog who is young, has good drive and focus and YOU are highly motivated to train in this way. You HAVE said that ANY dog can be trained in drive.... without additional knowledge of specific canine behaviours rendering those drives useless or non-existant... your blanket statements simply aren't correct!

I have not abused you or disrespected you in any way. You are giving advise/your opinion as fact and people have been correcting you all along with their own experiences etc and they DO have a great deal more experience than you in both training AND behavioural aspects of canine behaviour.

QUOTE(sunny70 @ 7th Oct 2006 - 07:45 PM)

Out of curiosity, do you leave your gates open when you are home J O ??

Not on purpose. It has happened twice. Once we were at home, once we weren't.

Honestly.... if Jefe was still home when the gates were left open..... he simply didn't have the motivation or the drive to leave.

Actually.... you haven't actually said if he did leave or not. How long was the gate open on those occasions? and if you weren't home... how do you know he didn't wander off for a while??

QUOTE(Cordelia @ 7th Oct 2006 - 06:47 PM)

He died last year after busting THROUGH the colourbond fence and severing his jugular on the edge of it. Are you honestly saying that he had bad owners????

No, I'm saying it a trainning problem, separation anxiety as you mentioned. Whether I think they are bad owners is not relevant to this.

Installing a 10K fencing system deals with the simptom (running away), not the cause (separation anxiety, bitch in season, what ever it is).

For the 100th time, is not about being bad owners, is about training.

Ok.... I am going to catagorically state that you know NOTHING about true seperation anxiety if you believe that training in drive (or any other singular method any trainer may be spouting at the time) is a cure all for ensuring a dog stays home.

Honestly..... give it up.... don't change your opinion, fine.... but JUST because you have read some books and had lessons with K9 force and you love training in drive and so does Jefe and it works FOR YOU.... does NOT even come close to giving you a decent level of knowledge or understanding of more complex issues and behaviours involved in a dogs psyche. Luckily, you have a very easy, exceptionally good natured dog to train who had very few issues from the start.

Believe it or not (and regardless of what you've been told) training in drive is NOT the be all and end all of training and it DOES NOT work for every dog.

"When was that dear boy?"

Feb 06.

So much to comment on... so little time. *sigh*

I wonder how many police, customs, rescue dogs run away...

I would think very few..... simply because they do not live in a 'normal' environment. They are kennelled (roof included) and locked in a specifically designed facility. Comparing them to the usual family dog is totally pointless and invalid. ... oh... by 'rescue' I assume you mean SAR dogs??

Ok... now JO... you've been treading on very thin ice with some people here and you are seriously offending a lot of very responsible and good folk here with your high and mighty attitude.

and YES, the way I see it, if your dog sits on command, but yet at the first oportunity it will run away, then yes, you are a bad owner because:

1.- You have failed to secure the dog

2.- You have failed to satifsy the dog drives

3.- You have failed to train you dog propery

1. You are WRONG. Simple as that. Your opinion is based on what you have learnt/been taught working with Jefe ONLY and some books...... You are coming from a VERY narrow and blinkered viewpoint based on minimal knowledge and even less experience with the canine population as a whole.

2. Failing to secure a dog..... well unfortunately, that comes under "shit happens sometimes" where some dogs are concerned. There ARE dogs out there who are Houdinis and CAN and DO escape with regular monotony regardless of what their RESPONSIBLE owners do to prevent it.

I have had a few dogs in care who have managed to escape from my kennels JO. Does THAT make me a bad owner/rescue???? One was larger than Jefe and could scale 11 foot fencing (and when locked in a kennel he ripped the gate off its hinges)... so was that my fault... or his very serious seperation anxiety??

Seperation anxiety etc can cause the most well trained animals to freak out completely and even jump through glass to 'get out' .... they get lost.... how is THAT the owners fault if a storm occurs when noone is home??

What about the dog I know whose owners spent $10,000 on 9 foot colourbond fencing to stop their boy escaping after the enclosure/kennel they had him in was destroyed by him (where he also required 50 odd stitches to sew him back together after pushing through the weld mesh).... they concreted under the fence line to prevent digging... he was a beautifully trained dog.... who was on anti anxiety drugs for seperation.....

He died last year after busting THROUGH the colourbond fence and severing his jugular on the edge of it. Are you honestly saying that he had bad owners????

The dog must get drive satisfaction from you, not from finding the source of the scent. Following the scent and finding the source is the way he will get drive satisfaction from YOU.

Without being rude JO..... I'm sorry but you have NO idea what you are talking about and you are digging yourself deeper with every blinkered comment you make.

Getting rewards from the owner is one thing WHEN YOU ARE THERE. But.... considering the vast majority of dogs escape/wander off when their owners ARE NOT HOME ....... you are giving dogs WAY too much credit for deep thought processess .... and giving too much credence to training NOT overriding inherant instinct (to mate, follow a scent... as scent hounds were BRED to do) or anxiety issues etc.

Dogs will leave because of numerous reasons... seperation anxiety being one, mating being a major one, boredom/noone to stop them etc and most of those reasons have little to do with training and a lot to do with the individual temperament and personality of the dogs who do it.

I will GUARANTEE that Jefe would leave if given enough 'drive' to do so (HIS inherent drive... not your trainging).

Yes, you have trained him well and he is a credit to your dedication.... but don't EVER delude yourself into thinking that he would never ever wander off without you...... he would. Why??? Because he's a dog and he has a small brain that doesn't require much thinking.... so he will follow his instincts, nose... whatever.... should the situation present itself. ..... and that WON'T make you a bad owner if it happens..... it'll just make Jefe exactly what he is.... a dog. (I would also like to point out that Jefe has never been overly concerned about leaving his home environment anyway.... he bonds exceedingly well to people due to being VERY well socialised as a youngster and has little inclination to remove himself from those he has bonded with and his territory...

I have also seen this dog and there is no way she has been without food for a month, more like 5-6 months

Huh??

She'd be dead if she was starved for that long.

Wherever this dog came from (I'm assuming scanning for a chip has been done), it is entirely possible that wandering around with little - no food can see a dog in this emaciated state within 2 wks (especially if they are in prime nick when they go missing).

Regardless.... Hydration shouldn't be an issue at all if she is drinking well. It isn't advisable to boost electrolytes unless it is warranted by actual dehydration.

Lamb has the highest fat content of all meats. Too much chicken fat and it'll cause gastro and potentially pancreatitis so don't go overboard with it.

After the first few days, and no vomiting, there is no need to give small meals or give more than 3 meals a day. Feeding more than 3 times will boost their metabolism too much and you'll actually cause the dog to burn energy faster. Increase size of meals and feed less frequently. After 5 days, she should be able to ingest approx 600-800g per meal (75% fresh - 25% puppy food... must be high quality).

Keep her activity fairly restricted so she's laying around a lot. No walks for at least 2wks.

I hope the pound have been informed so if she has someone looking for her, they can find her.

She is only 10 weeks old so obvisouly I need to keep doing it for a few more weeks!?

She's only a wee baby so you can't expect her her to 'get it' reliably for several months yet. As you've found, it only takes a couple of days of being lax for her to lose that initial training.

I wouldn't want a wee bub locked outside all day either. Why not look into buying a playpen for her so she can be inside, but she will be suitably confined and not able to make a mess all over the house.

Finally, do you think there could be some reaction to the Frontline?

No. Usually a reaction if any will be a localised resction and would not induce the behaviour you've described.

However, I'm not convinced that he does consider himself the alpha dog (well maybe lately?). I know from my posts it could look like that but this aggressive behaviour is only recent and happens out of the blue and not at every meal time

You're making excuses for him. He is upping the ante gradually.

Glad you'll take on board advice though. If you already have basic obedience down pat then you should see a change in his behaviour quite quickly.

Good luck. :p

Hi there,

Advised that high protein diet (i.e. barf) can make dogs aggressive, hence the considering changing diet.

His behaviour has nothing to do with protein in his diet or anything else he is being fed.

Look carefully at what you have written.....

I started him back on chicken wings but he was choking (eating too fast) and so I started mincing them whole, then I started holding them in my fist and feeding him by hand and lately chopping the wings into pieces.

Hand feeding him like a servant does his master.

I tried letting him eat whole wings but he seemed confused and started guarding the bones (any other bones at that time, i.e. oxtail recreational bones, he would just leave around the place and not worry about them).

Ahhh but chicken is the prized food! Tastes a whole lot better and requires little work to eat... unlike his chompy bones that take ages and he doesn't care anywhere near as much about them.... mainly because you aren't trying to touch them.

He eventually started eating them but it took forever as he didn’t seem to know to hold the bone with his foot and so we tried moving his foot onto the bone to help him out – he would start growling and snapping and so we stopped.

As the dominant member of the pack... he got exactly the desired response!! He didn't know you were helping move his foot... he thought you were going to take his prized fod away... he growled..... you left him alone.... HE WINS! He just proved to himself he was the boss!

Now, if he’s eating out of his bowl he seems fine but occasionally he will spread his meal around the place but instead of eating the pieces he will just lie down and sort of ignore them. If anyone tries to put the food back in the bowl he becomes very vicious – snapping and growling and just losing it.

He is ALLOWED to spread his food about as though he owns the place..... further telling him that he is king of the house... allowed to do as he pleases. He has had his food aggression inadvertantly re-inforced by your family.

I then waited while he finished the treat (very small piece) and then stroked him and spoke gently and rubbed his ears and he was fine. I stood up slowly to leave and then he started growling and snapping as though he wanted to attack me. I grabbed him quickly and held him in place whilst saying ‘No’ in a deep voice. He carried on like this for quite a while and whenever he stopped I would remove one hand and then he’d start again and I’d put my hand back. Eventually he calmed down. It was quite scary. About 10 minutes later I went back to check on him (he was still in the hallway) and he growled at me for no reason.

He had a reason..... he was telling you again that he is boss.... bet you didn't pick him up again. He won another round.

I contacted a behaviourist and she emailed me asking if I fed him any carbohydrates as too much protein can cause this kind of aggression.

Sorry but that is crap.

I thought that dog aggression as a result of eating a protein-rich diet was no longer considered believed.

He has developed food/possession aggression due to your actions in the past.... he is NOT 'aggrssive' per se. has nothing whatsoever to do with protein.

I know that adolescent dogs often go through an aggressive stage but this isn't what I would have expected. I thought there would be some warning growling but it's really quite sudden and savage and scary but luckily he doesn't do it too often. He goes from being a sweet soppy little thing to a feral animal. When you read descriptions of Lowchens it's usually along the lines of them having a sweet expression but my little one looks more haughty than sweet.

I've had dealings with a few Lowchens and I would say that they can be quite a dominant breed and when any dominant dog is not kept in their 'place', problems will arise.... exactly as you are experiencing.

He has learnt that growling and carrying on like a feral gets the fastest and most effective result.... you leaving him alone with his food/whatever else it is he has.

Make no mistake, he will up the ante as long as he feels he will win... someone WILL get bitten if you don't stop the behaviour now.

He needs to lose his privilages so he is reminded that he is NOT top dog in the family (which is his current status).

Start from scratch with re-training.... if he wants anything at all, he must work for it. Make him sit before any attention, feeding etc.

Stop all bones until he knows his place. Give him food that is less appealing.

Put it down.... leave it for 10mins... if he hasn't eaten all of it, put it away or throw it out and don't feed him again until his usual next meal time. He won't starve.

Put his favourite toys away and only get them out when YOU want to play.... they are now YOUR toys, not his. You are allowing him to play with you... once the game is over, put them away again.

Check out these links... Steve is a trainer/behaviourist in Sydney and has helped numerous people here.

NILIF - Nothing in Life is Free

Triangle of Temptation

Good luck.