paul1

Lock her up until she tells where it is ,

True they have not been back , but they did explain well they said the dog was now 8 weeks olD , they said they had owned him for a week and 5 days earlier they took him to the vet where he was diagnosed with a desease 5 days from a week equals 2 days they owned him before they had to take him to a vet , now given it probably took a day or so to relize he was sick , i,d say its fairly obvious they were sold a sick pup too young to leave its mother ,,, Course a follow up from them would be nice after all people took time to give them advice , good or bad

I am , READ the the top it says quote Question for Breeders unquote

Reading through the sale section , i noticed a couple of dogs being advertized for sale under breeders terms , What i took from that is the breeder has a good dog , temperment , pedigree , nice color whatever , and wants to carry on the line , but does,nt have the room , the time whatever to keep said dog , so its offered out , you keep the dog when we want you have to bring the dog to have pups ect ect , you all know the score . Now if that suits it should work out ok to both partys , but my question is when you take the dog you realisticly have an agreement its not your dog until xsaid pregnancy and pups , fair enough you know that , But what about payment , what would be normal and fair , whever takes the dog is in fact just paying food and lodging for your dog babysitting until you want to breed , then running the risk if it dies in birth losing there new familly pet ,, So would most breeders expect big dollars for the dog because they consider it a good dog , drop the price significantly because there going to get a litter ,, Or just be happy to give said dog to a loving home knowing in return they can take back the new familly pet for a period to get a litter Just curious has to what most think is fair , I know to me i would never pay big dollars under that agreement , but i would,nt want pups , i, personaly would desex my dog

And i,m sure many breeders paticualy unscroupulous ones will agree wholeheartedly with you and the scenarios you put forward ,,, However i,m sure that theres many,, paticulary good honest breeders who would be alarmed , upset , and want to get to the bottom of why there dog got sick within 2 days of leaving home was took to the vet and diagnosed with a desease all in two days , and i,m sure that these honest breeders would give a full refund or a healthy pup ,,, course with 2 days and a note from a vet , i doubt any civil crt would really take the part of any breeder trying to get out of there civil and moral duty ,, ,, would be interested to hear from breeders on here has to what they would do or consider the right thing to do

Suppose that is something you would really really have to do your homework on , Its akin to statring up any buisness . know what your doing or take a chance , If you brought in a new breed , would it be popular , would you sell the pups , 30 grand for two pups is a lot of money and i suppose a big chance , suppose you have a lot of homework to do , and decide if its a lifestyle thing or a buisness

Maybee so ,, but if i buy a new car or tv , and it blows up after a few days , i want a replacement or a full refund .. Price of dogs is astronomical , in the other posts breedes are defending themselves left right and centre over the costs of pups , being so high because of the cost of breeding , , this too me is another costs , replacing faulty products , and at the prices charged after a week the pup can be classed as faullty , no amaount of smooth talking and blaming incubation periods for the desease to worm out of a refund would convince me ,, in there shoes , facts would be facts , i bought a dog , within 5-7 days it was at the vet diagnosed sick , and still sick , i would want a refund plus costs of the vet , Whats more if it was a reputable breeder , they would gladly take it back and reimburse or so i would imagine ... Course if i had the dog for 3 months thats different ,, but sick in a few days , Naaw refund QUOTE we took him to vets 5 days ago as he was not eating and very lethargic! turned out he had canine carnivorous! his still not himself and not really eating! but its the strange noises he makes if u touch him or whilst lying there awake/ askeep! he seems to bark lots too! he is only 8 weeks old, we have had him only for a week! UNQUOTE Defo in this case buy the dog 2 days later at the vet diagnosed with an illness , 5 days later , he's still sick . on top f that , he's now 8 weeks , means he left the mother too young at 7 weeks ,,, TAKE HIM BACK GET YOUR MONEY BACK

Whats this coronavirus , is it serious , if it was me at 8 weeks and sick , i,d be getting a letter of the vet and taking it back to the breeder, especiellyif you paid thousands

Just like children really they will eat when there hungry , .... set times are what we adults generally inflict .. my little dog puts his nose up at food , will not eat so i take it away 5-6 hrs later put it down he devours it

The market will always dictate , people will pay what they can afford and probably no more ,,, But for me the price of a dog is'nt an issue . 30 plus years ago i paid $800 for a GSD which i knew could not be shown , apparantly the breeder told me its long haired and its too big , ,, but heh i did'nt care i bought it because it was the biggest , bmost boisterous pup there , it also found me , once it started biting or rather mouthing my feet and latched on to my jeans , that was it cost did'nt come into it he was mine ,,, but i did get papers he was on mains regitrar , granted laws have changed now .. I've paid out big money for numerous dogs , i personaly always believed in going to a breeder , if there bred right they should resemble what the breed is known for and if you pay big money you should and are entitled to a good example of the breed ,, so the money is imaterial , providing its fair , . My problem with finding a dog at the moment is not money its the right dog i have a little dog and its a great dog but i want a mate ,,for him , I would prefer a fully grown dog that needs a good home ,,, already housetrained , and past the ripping your house to bits stage LOL also has to be good with other dogs ,,, looking at dogs from breeders the adult housetrained seems to be the hard part ,, understandable if you have 5 -6 big mastiffs , rottys ,whatever pretty hard to let them all live in the house

I really don't think the price of a dog is the issue when your buying quality ,,, If i wanted to buy the crofts dog show winner or its offspring , i suppose i would have to pay huge amounts ,, breeders being compensated for there time is not an issue ,, if they feel there dogs are worth more because there a better breeder and have better dogs than the bloke up the rd , well fair enough let it reflect in the price , and the market will dictate ,, people doing there homework will decide for themselves wether to pay for the dog from the real quality breeder of champions , or Kate up the road , with a real dog of a dog in the sence of the word who breeds with her mate with another bad example of the breed , and then lay claim to be breeders just because there registered with an organization ,,, there wants and there pockets will decide , I think the problem arises when there is no stock so to speak which then enables byb and bad breeders to command the top dollar regardless off the quality , I've noticed mastiffs are becoming popular again , i speak on the dog beach to many owners , who all say i got him /she from a breeder , and there not full mastiffs usually cross with bull mastiff and neo mastiff or that french one thrown in , the lack of stock is enabling these so called breeders of mongrels to charge the same or similar money to the proper respectable breeders who really do have the breeds and dogs interest at heart . I've never bred a dog and never shown a dog , so i'm just an outsider looking in on the industry , and i choose the word industry very carefully because thats what it is or has become , , I think the problem irises and can be fixed with this ltd papers rubbish ,,, I've enquired after being told on here that SA has a law about desexing dogs , i think its a good law , because after speaking to the council , they tell me , if i buy a puppy on mains i have a certain amount of time to join the relevent organization and become a breeder or shower of said dog ... But its the breeder who has become judge and jury insisting on ltd papers and hence stopped myself or anyone else from doing it and therefore limiting stock ,, so whats it acheived ,, its acheived ltd stock high prices and people who want to just throwing together two dogs and getting maybee 2-3 grand a pup for mongrels ,, its killed its own industry .

Don't know too much about this ,, but i started to feed my dog on chicken pet mince ,, within a week he was at the vets , who told me STOP his stomach sounded like world war 3 he said ,, vet told me theres too much rubbish mixed in a lot of pet mince and he see's a lot of dogs with stomach parasite problems , because of it ,, he's only a small dog so for his night meal its not too expensive for me to feed him proper cooked chicken breast and he's good with that Vet said it goes for most butchers ,, could be maybee mine just has a sensetive stomach who knows ...

Very good ,, well done ,, Certainly better than a lecture about how much it costs to breed , or being told your 5 year old will learn a lesson , poor lady only posted about how expensive they were ,,, and they are .

Cremated is probably the best idea , you can keep him forever then ,, Weve got the mother in law In the lounge cabinet ,,, Will say i was'nt happy when i first found out we had her ,, she was in a little box on the wifes dresser in the bedroom , I thought it was a jewerly box ,,, gave me the creeps when i found out , moved her to the lounge ,, she can go into the attic , when the wife lets me move her again . But cremated is the best way for you , I had visions of you getting pulled over at an interstate fruit inspection ,, trying to explain why you had a big dog in an esky covered in ice , Not even sure if it would be legal to transport dead dogs , across the border , here in SA we can't even take a lettuce to the riverland

Its a whippet ,, got to be Speedy Gonzales ,, Speedy for short

Perhaps give this lady a link , she could offer to rehome the pup

Just keep going to the pound chances are you will not find a pedigree and you will be extremly lucky to find a small little white fluffy malltese cross , although i got one , i actually went in to buy a big full grown mastiff i knew was there , and walked out with this perfect half cat half dog not a proper dog but perfect familly dog LOL Just keep going to the pound , keep an eye on gumtree and chech your local boards in the supermarkets honestly i checked them 8 years ago and come acroos a familly moving interstate , they needed to find a home for a pedigree stumpy tailed heeler i took him , after a year i gave him to my son because my grandkids loved him , he a beutiful familly dog 9 years old now . They are out there you dont need to buy an expensive pedigree half of them are not very good anyway most are not selling top quality dogs anyway and this breed fot temprement is mostly rubbish they would,nt know there dogs are in kennells and runs out the bag the only love they get is when they get a bowl of food put in with them ..... There ya go bring on the abuse , this lady was only expressing concern over overprized dogs and you all jumped down her throat , take some back

Good post scratch ,,,,, I have always been sceptical about showing ect , i've never shown a dog but whilst i can appreciate the time effort put in i question whats happenning , i live over looking a dog beach , i spend half my life on it , either walking or swimming or just in my kayack , i fish there , my little dog is always with me maltese /cross from the pound ,, now he runs up to dogs and people and they come to him , so i always end up talking , and too be honest i look at some breeds and think what the ,hell ,, especielly GSD's , every single owner will say , i got him /her from a top breeder , i'll smile say he / she's nice , and think GSD's are supposed to be strong alert , confident , good looking dogs , and i see humped backs with short back legs and skinny snouts , very wary and a little nervous , shake my head and think , yep and i bet there dogs win shows ,, it seems to me there changing the comfirmation of shepards too suit there pocket not the breed , Now its only because the last couple months i've wanted to get another big dog i've come across stuff , thats disapointed me and can see the problems , and the biggest problem i see is the breeders have become policeman , judge and jury over byb , so much so they are not allowing sue , and peter up the road to breed or sell there dogs , by insisting on desex , and ltd papers , Now i did'nt know until someone here pointed out In Sa you buy a pup and by law you either join the apprropriate association , or you desex your dog ,, i think its a good law , but its a law that allows me to A---- Buy a dog b----- decide if i want to breed it or show it if i think its a great example of its breed So why do breeders in SA need to sell with ltd papers , the law has already sorted it out , either join the correct association or desex , thats law . Now i can tell you i would never want to do either BUT i would want the choice if i paid out the money for what a breeder tells me is a good dog with a good background , so is the law stopping me breeding a dog for a job has opposed to confirmation in the show ring , NO its the breeder who refuses to sell a dog on mains papers . are the ones who make it very difficult for me to know if there breeding / selling dogs because there just really no better than puppy farms trying to protect an income ,, or if there genuine breeders trying to protect there strain of dog . Everyone will have different answers , but personaly i believe when i bought pedigree dogs , will admit not for 15 or so years , but i've bought 7 from good breeders and every one of them was proud to give me mains papers and everyone of them encouraged me or at least tried to encorage me to show them they were just never going to talk me into it ' Keep saying breeders are shooting themslves in the foot

Looks like a happy healthy dog ,

Sandgrubber - I wasn't saying that the ring is the perfect solution. What has been done to several breeds is 'criminal' and bloody disgusting. I remember the German Shepherds of the 70's - proud, sound (mind and body) beautiful animals. Not the roach backed/down on hocks, screaming/mentally fragile beings of a few decades later. And that is only one of dozens of breeds that have been stuffed up physically and mentally (before anyone loses it - yes there are exceptions in individuals and breeders - I am referencing in general). The point I was attempting to make is that there are pups that simply aren't up to breed standard (pls note, I said the standard, not 'winning in the ring). Could not agree more

Do agree my locel rspca who i,ve purchased 3 dovgs from over the years never have dogs in now boarding seems there only concern . Money is there only concern I believe they only ,keep enough strays to ensure there govt funding about 10 years ago i was approached to paint there kennels i actually said i would sponsor them by supplying the paint and labor free of charge for a week , i supplied materials payed my blokes wages for a week he done probably half of them but to my suprise when i went to visit him , they had him only do the kennels that were boarding where the strays were never got touched my mates wife stopped volunteering after she found 90% of her time was looking after the boarding dogs , like she said she signed up to look after strays and injured not 40 dollar a night boarders ,,,, Its all about the money

Only looked at 1 in SA do all states require desexing by law

I take on board the costs of pups and producing them and say again forget the price that does,nt matter but 2 minutes ago i just ramdomly selected 20 kennels selling pups on this site ,different breeds and random , Out of the 20 probably 15 went to great lenghths to say how good there dogs were parents champions bla bla bla ,, so you would assume that they were selling good dogs credit to the breed , however 18 off the 20 said limited papers not to be bred , non said not to be shown breeding from there great stock was the issue , there not interested in preserving good dogs , just protecting an income ,,, thats all from me i know the answer to the problem DONT BUY OF THEM

So what are you saying you just explained registar , vac /chip , ect around $1300 . and they cost the same regardless mains or ltd ,, SO WHY do just about ALL breeders want to sell LTD only and want you to desex the dog ,, On top of that the prices are usually around 3 grand a pup , some more some less ,,, self explanatory is'nt it ,, cost of say on average 1300 dollars your prices not mine ,, profit of 15-1700 a pup some more some less , last breeder i went to had 2 bitches she was breeding , she told me her pups are always healthy ansd strong and they usually have 8-10 pups twice a year , thats 16 -20 pups a year , Some big money flying around and cash at that mostly .. and the more breeders insist on desex and ltd papers the more they protect there income not the breed what they claim to do Now don't get me wrong i don't care how much the pups are , because your correct price on everything has gone up , What i question is this LTD papers rubbish , i buy a dog its mine and if i'm paying you a premium because your a breeder i expect that dog to be shown if i want or breed if i want to ..otherwise go to the pound and grab any old dog desexed , chipped and $450 The money does'nt come into it , you can ask 10 grand a pup , some will pay some will not , its irrelevant , its the restrictions placed that give me the shits . Like i said before one breeder tried to justify to me her older dog was worth thousnds because she had a good pedigree and produced good pups , when the reality was , she was looking to dump her breeder bitch into someone else because its breeding days were over, this dog was never going to win a show , or produce another litter ,, but rehoming her out of a kennel into a loving home was only on the agenda if it came with $2500 ,,, and the dog was'nt even house trained it had lived in a kennel and a run , , and she had the cheek to tell me if i don't think her dogs worth it , go see a byb . At what point did she stop becoming a BYB and become a responsible breeder , money was the driving force here and protecting that stream I reiterate , the price is irrelevent , i said before when i bought a shepard years ago , The breeder shown me the litter said you cannot have that one i'm keeping it ,,, take your pick , , the rest are $800 each now that was a premium around 30 years ago . there pedigrees were good there temperament was good , wether or not they would be show quality you can't tell at 8 weeks ,,, but there was no restrictions and that is how i have bought EVERY dog i've ever bought from a breeder