zenchel

According to most Boxer breeders, there are far more important issues than the NBT gene to consider arising from Bruce Cattanach's crossbreeding to produce the "Borgi". They want the pedigrees annotated to show where the NBTs are, thereby showing where the Corgis are, or were! The NBT gene is dominant, not recessive. The birth defect issues have always been present in the breeding of Manx cats, among other breeds. Sylvia

Have been concerned about Bob and Ann Wyburn in the Margaret River fires - does anybody have any news? Hope their property is safe. Sylvia

There is a fair bit of twitching going on but Australia is NOT switching to PennHIP. The ANKC/AVA Canine Hip and Elbow Dysplasia Scheme (CHEDS) will remain the accepted scheme for the forseeable future. Everybody is welcome to use PennHIP as an additional or alternative method for hip screening, however it is not accepted by the ANKC for breeds with Litter Registration Limitations. Please understand that it is in the commercial interest of vets who have chosen to pay for a licence to be an accredited PennHIP provider to promote the PennHIP scheme. Sylvia

No probs - you were only passing on what you were told by someone who should know - it's a worry that they don't Cheers, Sylvia

That's not correct - PennHIP scoring can only be done in the US. There are many vets in Australia that have chosen to pay for the training and the licence to do PennHIP xrays, but nobody outside the US is authorised to score through the PennHIP scheme. Sylvia

Yes, that must be it. Thanks for pointing it out to me. Cheers, Sylvia

This very much sums up where I'm coming from. I don't intend to comment on the particular case, because nobody knows, including the OP, what the truth of the situation is. I simply reacted to the idea that there is no obligation on a breeder to take back a dog they have bred. I don't accept that idea. Yes, people's situations change and sometimes there is a physical impediment to the original breeder actually taking the dog back into their home, however there are many other ways to be actively involved in ensuring a new home is found for the dog asap. In my experience in rescue, there are far too many breeders that are happy to take the dollars when the pups turn eight weeks, however eight months, two years, five years down the track, they can't help. Often, the dog is having to be rehomed because the choice of home wasn't suitable in the first place, responsibility for which lies squarely in the breeders' lap. When I end up with a dog being surrendered that has papers and I call the breeder to tell them a pup of theirs is in rescue, I get "So...??" Once, I was even told "oh, I couldn't possibly take the dog back, I've got two litters on the ground and haven't time or space!" As you can tell, I tend to have a fairly jaundiced view of some breeders. Not really interested in deciding on what side the blame lies, just like to focus on the fact that there is a dog that is no longer wanted in its present home so it's in the dog's interests to get him out of that situation and into one where he is safe and loved. Can't understand how any breeder worth their salt wouldn't do everything in their power to achieve that outcome. Probably a bit too black and white for some, but there you go.

'Scuse me? If the breeder was in the position to breed them, then they are in a position to take them back, even only for a few days until the breeder or the stud dog owner or somebody within the breed community is able to find a foster situation for these guys until a new home can be found for them. I'm firmly of the opinion that breeders need to be responsible and accountable for the dogs that they produce; if they can't be then don't breed in the first place. Sylvia

No DNA test, but Optigen are working on one. Optigen Cataract Research But as you say, they appear at widely varying ages - 12 months up to ten years - in Labs also. Is it the same disease? They rarely progress to anything worse than a star cataract in Labs, although thinking about it I wonder if the ones that appear early are the ones that do progress? I've had dogs diagnosed at five years and they never get any worse. I've never had one any younger than that, so don't know whether they progess. Cheers, Sylvia

Not sure what you mean by qualified, however the only accredited readers under the ANKC/AVA Canine Hip and Elbow Dysplasia Scheme are as listed on this page: Canine Health Info Sylvia

Yep, exactly the same in Labradors. It's a stinker

This means that the dogs do not "carry" the gene as a recessive trait. They only need one copy of the gene from one parent to be affected but the degree they are affected will vary from barely noticable on examination to completely blind. Unaffected progeny (those that do not have a copy of the gene) from an affected dog can never produce the problem. This is not a correct definition of what I'm assuming the OP is enquiring about - "dominant with incomplete penetrance". As stated above a dominant gene will always express itself, so it can be inherited from one only parent. However the rider "incomplete penetrance" means that occasionally the dominant gene doesn't express itself, so any offspring of a dog that has say a cataract which is dominant but with incomplete penetrance, may not show clinical signs of the cataract, but genotypically is still affected, therefore can pass it on to the next generation. This mode of inheritance is really quite tricky to deal with, as if you have a clinically clear offspring of an affected parent, you would assume that the offspring is amongst the statistical 50% that have not inherited the dominant gene, however it may turn out to be one of those with "incomplete penetrance" and may go on to produce it in the next generation. It sort of behaves like a recessive, but not..... I think what dancingbcs is referring to is "variable expression", which is as explained a varying degree of severity of expression of a particular disease, but not related to its mode of inheritance. Sylvia

Can't let this go without responding, but am not going to get into an ongoing "I'm right, you're wrong" slanging match as continually happens on these forums, because frankly I haven't got the time or the inclination. Toy Dog you are obviously from Victoria, despite what your details say, so I would like to invite you to join the Puppy Farm Working Party and also invite you to have a look at the financial report from Dogs Vic which is made available every year at the AGM. Thousands of dollars profit? I don't think so. The continual cry of not allowing DV members to do this, that and the other thing is very admirable, however the practicalities of the legal issues surrounding this are always ignored. However, now that DV has taken the action of requiring photo id for membership renewals - it's like the sky is falling in - DV is accused of Nazi tactics - what right does DV have in requiring photo id? What about our privacy? And this is often from members that slap their photos all over their website, facebook etc so hopefully judges will recognise them. The Puppy Farm Working Party prepared a detailed submission earlier in the year on legislative changes regarding Domestic Animal Businesses following meeting with representatives of the Bureau of Animal Welfare. We have also drawn up an in depth response to the proposed review of the Code of Practice relating to Breeding and Rearing Establishments which apparently will take place this year, however the Vic Govt have obviously got plenty on their plate over dog matters at the moment. Personally, I was called as a witness at the VCAT hearing over the application for a commercial breeding establishment in Ballan. I would strongly suggest you and anybody else that is interested read the decision from that hearing. It would give you a valuable insight into how the process of granting planning permits works. Rant over. Sylvia Power Chair, Dogs Victoria Puppy Farm Working Party

This really needs to be clarified - are you saying that at his 2nd vacc - 12 weeks of age - the vet said he had pain etc and then two weeks later - 14 weeks of age - he was sedated and HD was diagnosed? Please can you be really clear on this - his age and the method of diagnosis? Was the pup xrayed? Is he really only 14 weeks of age now? On what basis did you and the breeder decide the pup should be returned? I eagerly look forward to your reply, as I have very grave concerns about the course of events that have been related. I'm so sorry that this has eventuated. Sylvia

I can't believe how robotic and impersonal the world has become - can I beg you all not to shop at Coles or IGA nor buy fuel at Apco - I just got a flat out NO. They didn't even bother to read the flyer. Thank you to Foodworks in Bacchus Marsh for willingly putting it up. The tape that I took didn't cope with telegraph poles - I'll take some packing tape tomorrow and put a flyer up near the schools and also go to Pet Stock and Best Friends in Melton. Sylvia

Please email me a flyer - when I've fed the dogs I will take them down and post them everywhere in Bacchus Marsh, also the Toolern Vale store if it hasn't been done already. [email protected] Sylvia

I'm so sorry that you lost Eva like this - it must be devastating. I only wanted to tell you of my experience with mesenteric torsion, to let you know how unexpected and rapid it can be. I had a 14 month old Labrador boarding with me - she had stayed with me twice before. First thing in the morning she seemed a little off colour - she had brought up maybe a handful of undigested dry from the meal the night before. No diarrhoea, no bloating. I brought her into my house and put her in a crate to observe her. She didn't seem too bad, however I noticed that she has chewed bits of the end of a towel I had in the crate with her. It was a Saturday (naturally ) so I took her to the vet for safety's sake. He decided to keep her overnight for observation, also did bloods. During the afternoon I found out from the emergency contact person that Momo had not long previously had surgery for a foreign object removal. I wondered if this was the problem? Anyway the vet rang first thing next morning to say "I've got bad news" and I said "oh no, she's swallowed part of the towel and has to have surgery" - "no, she died overnight"...... I was horrified, of course. One owner was in Japan , the other in Holland - I took the step of authorising an autopsy, even though I was aware that some people are not in favour of doing one, however I needed to know what had happened. It turned out to be mesenteric torsion, not related to the previous surgery - it just happened So I guess what I'm saying is that it can happen out of the blue, to young healthy dogs; no signs of bloat. You mentioned a lot of blood - I wonder if Eva was a bleeder, although there shouldn't be any GSD's bred with haemophilia these days. Ask the vet if you can pass the breeder on to him to discuss it - he will need your permission to discuss Eva with anybody else. It will hopefully help the breeder understand what happened if they can talk to the vet. I've also heard a specialist vet say that mesenteric torsion is a vet's nightmare - as soon as any symptoms show, it's too late to do anything. Sorry for you and your partner. Sylvia

Yes, this was the idea from the start as to how to make best use of the DNA testing, however I'm afraid it's gone pear shaped, mostly due to commercial rivalry. GTG or Animal Network or whatever they are this week won't give Clear By Parentage for more than one generation, so for breeds like Border Collies or Labradors the cost of continually testing generation after generation for two, maybe three diseases (on dogs that you know are clear) rather than proving parentage and therefore claiming CBP becomes prohibitive. I cannot accept that Animal Network's reasoning for this refusal to certify more than one generation CBP is anything more than looking after the bottom line. ASAP's price structure is much better however they don't appear to be up and running properly yet and can't do PRA or CEA anyway due to the Optigen licence. I'm going to try out DDC in the US next time I need to test something for EIC or profiling, although I'm going to have to use Animal Network soon as I'm still breeding from a PRA carrier. Until the testing is more affordable and the process more user friendly, I can't see any Litter Registration Limitations based on DNA tests coming into being. The Border Collie people were the guinea pigs for LRLs, but they had to be withdrawn as they just couldn't work. Sylvia

Dogs Vic Canine Health Committee is looking into this issue, probably by providing a form that needs to be completed here in Oz signing off on the positive ID and independent collection and then accompanies the swabs to the testing laboratory. We have found DDC to be very cooperative. This will need to be organised on a national basis, so may take some time Sylvia

I was disappointed at the outcome but not surprised. Before the hearing I realised that it was entirely based on planning issues, which do not include the two Codes of Practice that affect how a commercial dog breeding establishment must be run. Until the law is changed and an applicant must have to prove intent and ability to comply with the relevant codes in order to be granted a permit, then we are pushing it up hill with a fork. At the moment, the Codes don't come into effect until the business is up and running. I spent two days listening to the hearing in VCAT and then two hours being grilled and attempting to make my comments and experience relevant, (as did the RSPCA representative brilliantly - she was fantastic) I was not surprised when it became apparent that neither the permit applicant nor his representative (a town planner) had any clue of the existence of the Code of Practice for Responsible Breeding of Dogs With Heritable Defects. However why would they - it was not relevant to the application for a planning permit, which is why we were all there. The fact that they had no clue when they stated in the application that they are going to breed Cocker Spaniels, Scottish Terriers etc is another issue..... Who knows, this particular domestic animal breeding business may turn out to be the gold standard Sylvia

Yes, I know you did - thanks. It seems they've all gone I have them on Excel, but want to refer somebody to the "official" site. Never mind.

Am I going mad? Weren't the breed averages for hip scores on the AVA website? If so, can somebody please post the link - I've spent the last hour trying to find them, to no avail. Thanks.

Really??? Thanks for letting me know - I will now remove my sceptical sneer I've spoken to the author, who I discovered had contacted me a couple of weeks ago with some Labrador related questions. His motives seem reasonable and he is prepared to share the results (statistical only) with the Labrador community, although I'm not sure he's going to get the answers that he's looking for. Just wish he'd contacted the breed community first, as I think he'd get a more valid response. Watch this space.... Sylvia

I've just received an email request to fill in an online survey, titled "Australian and New Zealand Labrador Breeder Survey". It states that my details were obtained from Dogzonline. I have gone through the survey, having to answer all questions to get to the next page and have huge concerns about what will be done with the information asked for. I answered the questions with ridiculous (I think!!) answers, purely because I couldn't get an idea of the contents of the survey any other way, which I object to also. I believe questions such as how much you sell your puppies for, what online puppy sale sites you use, what tests you do on your breeding stock, how many breeding dogs and bitches you have need to be treated with concern. The carrot is a draw to win a $100 Coles Myer gift voucher. Last time I looked, Coles and Myer were sold off separately in 2006 I will contact the author of the survey on behalf of the National Labrador Retriever Council and attempt to get some issues clarified. In the meantime, if you receive it, I would suggest you tread warily. Unfortunate that we have to be so mistrusting, but we (breeders) have been the subject of distribution of misinformation before and will be again, if we're not careful : Sylvia Power President National Labrador Retriever Council

Thanks Wayne, saved me looking up the wording