Staranais

I had them but not sure where they have gone? Will have a hunt at home & if I find them you can borrow or something, just pay postage.

Thanks folks. We're just all kind of in shock about it at the moment!

So, yesterday my lovely 11 month old malinois girl was diagnosed with OCD in both shoulders. We're gutted - we were really careful with her exercise, with not letting her jump anything, with what we were feeding, with how fast we grew her, we gave her glucosamine and fish oil as she was growing, etc. The breeder did her parents' hips and elbows, and they were all good, although didn't radiograph shoulders (as is normal, I think). I've been thinking back, and just can't think what we could have done differently. But anyway, we've got a team of lovely specialists on board to help us at my vet school, and I'm busy applying for big big loans to help with the potential surgeries ahead of us. What I'm here to ask is, has anyone had any success with alternative therapies to help with the healing of these lesions? She's already being stuffed full of glucosamine, MSM, fish oil, until she practically rattles.

I don't actually care if the dog had a brain tumour or was tormented in the past or what breed it was or if it had an unhappy childhood or woke up on the wrong side of the bed or whatever the current excuse is. We all know that a farmer can kill dogs he finds attacking his stock. We all understand that if we don't want our dogs to be shot by farmers, we need to take responsibility and not let our dogs roam and harass stock. This is no different. The dog was loose, it was attacking someone else's animal, and he took the initiative and defended his animal. Well, good on him I say. Sad for the roaming dog, but perhaps the owner should have taken a little bit more care of it, especially if they knew it was dog aggressive.

Thanks Miranda. Is it a progestrone thing then? Pretty sure dogs make progesterone from the corpora lutea through diestrus even though they aren't pregnant, right? She's still working OK, so I guess it will be nice to have 20 weeks of cuddle puppy every year.

So, my pup has just finished her first heat a few weeks ago. Ever since, she's been much calmer and cuddlier than before her heat (relatively speaking - she is a malinois after all!) Is it normal for an entire female dog to "settle down" after her first heat? Will her temperament stay like this, or will she be back to her crazy self when dioestrus finishes & she goes into anoestrus again?

Oh silly me, I intended to post this in the health forum. But any comments by trainers are also welcome!

So, my pup has just finished her first heat a few weeks ago. Ever since, she's been much calmer and cuddlier than before her heat (relatively speaking - she is a malinois after all!) Is it normal for an entire female dog to "settle down" after her first heat? Will her temperament stay like this, or will she be back to her crazy self when dioestrus finishes & she goes into anoestrus again?

.... nice that there are some who can empathise, although I strongly suspect that you are in the 'over-lap' generation, Star. I guess I'm in the electric typewriter generation. I remember we got computers with email the year I left high school - and we were all like, "what do we want that for anyway?" Oh, how times have changed. Facebook is a bit confusing though, with its multitude of ways you can post things. It's a jungle in there. In fact, I just found the nice comments you made on Fledgie's old photos the other day, months after you made them! They'd been lost in the facebook jungle for months.

I think it takes about one calorie to raise 1g of water by 1 degree (depending on the temperature the water starts at), so approximating food as water, it would take about 3,700 calories to raise 100g of food from just defrosted to dog internal temperature? That's 15 kJ, which is bugger all. That could be totally off, it's been a while since I did any physics at all, so someone more physically minded than I am might want to check it for daft mistakes.

I often heat bones up by putting them in a hot bowl of water - heats them up enough to smell interesting, not enough to change the texture.

I'm glad she's doing well!

Same here. I refuse to give them a cent. Same, although I do sometimes shop at a store near me that is a rehoming centre for AWL, so there are some animals instore being the store owners cat and dog that hang around in the shop and some desexed animals waiting to be rehomed, and they've assured me they screen purchasers for suitabliity first, though you can't be sure. I think that's a great idea, as long as they screen people reasonably well to make sure they are suitable owners. If people are going to decide which animal to adopt based on impulse instead of research (and let's face it, many people always will), then getting them buying a pound puppy or kitten instead of buying from a puppy farm is IMO the way to go. Even if petshops just hold the pups or kittens there on display, and make the prospective buyers contact the rescue organisation to arrange adoption, that would be an improvement. At the moment it's so much easier for people to buy a pet shop puppy than adopt from rescue, since pet shop puppies are so well advertised and so accessible.

I've got a couple of facebook accounts. Facebook, I find, is really confusing and I tend to get very lost. One moment I'm in my facebook, the next I find myself in someone else's and any hint of conversation is disjointed and/or non-existent. Obviously I'm doing something really wrong. <sigh> I need a teenage daughter or son, I think. I'm not of the "computer era" generation. I'm lucky I have younger siblings who grew up talking tech speak. Very useful. Crazy to think that there are people growing up now who have never not known how to use a computer. I remember having typewriters at school instead. And I'm not THAT old.

Round here, it seems similar. With every dog attack, there are calls to the government & the local councils to make new laws to protect the public. But the fact is, if you read the story, the owners of the attacking dog are nearly always not within the law anyway - the dog is unregistered, or being walked offleash where it shouldn't be, or roaming, or not microchipped, or unmuzzled where it should be muzzled, etc. The council could have prevented many of those attacks by policing the regular laws more carefully, and identify high risk owners by the fact they haven't obeyed the laws. But I guess it's far easier to make new laws and look like you're doing something, than to actually invest the time and money into policing the laws you've already made. I have no idea how to fix it.

I use toothpaste and bones. I don't know if it makes her teeth any cleaner than just brushing with water, but it makes her keener on the whole thing since the toothpaste tastes nice. Bones help a lot too, but not all dogs can eat bones, and I've even met some dogs that eat bones regularly that still get nasty teeth (they'd probably have atrocious teeth if they had no bones, I guess - some dogs just seem to have an anatomical or genetic predisposition towards nasty teeth). Plus, grooming is a nice excuse to get a dog cuddle, and get her used to getting the inside of her mouth handled.

I think the flaw in that argument is that most people have no idea how many dogs are rehomed and euthanised each year. Most people, even many breeders, are shocked when you tell them the real figures of how many dogs are dumped, and how many of those end up PTS, each year. So, it's not like BYB are basing their decisions whether to breed on the true facts of how many dogs are euthanised/rehomed, since most of them simply don't know these facts. I think you're right that many people have a false impression that "most" or "all" unwanted dogs end up finding new homes, but in that case I think the solution is to more widely publicise how many nice but unwanted dogs get PTS every year. Not to PTS more of them. If it were more widely publicised, I think it would be good to break it down by breed and dog type, too. I've heard the argument "oh, but that's just mutts/big dogs/pitbulls. Cockerpoos/snoodles/toy breeds/white dogs are very popular, they never end up in the pound!" And BYB wash their hands that way, since their "type" of dog has nothing to do with the pound situation...

Because obedience and agility can get a bit catty? OK, OK, shoot me now. I too have noticed schutzhund and tracking to be more evenly represented by both genders than obedience, agility, and even I think conformation shows too. Working sheepdog trials here have probably more men than women competing, especially at the top levels - not surprising I guess, since there are probably more male shepherds and farmers than women ones. Possibly schutzhund, tracking, sheepdog trials appeal more to men since they lend themselves to more immediate practical application? That's just a guess. Whereas agility and obedience are more just for fun. Whether your dog enters the weave polls the wrong way, or brings back the dumbbell by the end not the middle, isn't really all that compelling unless you're a true fan. Jobs involving using actual working dogs - shepherding, SAR dogs, police dog squad, security dog work - from what I've seen, these jobs with dogs are at least as likely to be filled by men as by women, sometimes far more commonly by men. Does anyone know if gundog trials are popular with the blokes? They would be if my theory was correct. Or perhaps women just have more spare time to practice their obedience in? :lol:

I can imagine that Cosmolo. It seems if they can't provide adequate training to rehabilitate certain behaviours, the recommendation to PTS is common, especially if aggression is concerned That's disgusting behaviour on the part of the behaviourist. The idea of anyone advising PTS for a dog for bouncing and lunging and leash pulling simply boggles the mind. Wonder what they'd do with my malinois girl, she practically lives life 6 feet off the ground. Sounds like the kind of common, simple behavior that's fixed or shaped relatively quickly by any competent trainer - whether they be traditional, positive, or whatever.

Good post!

You'll stay with her if she has to stay overnight at the vet????? Yes, Rozzie, if she was terrified then I would want to stay with her overnight. If she were happy and comfortable there, I'd be fine to leave her. I certainly don't ever leave her there for them to do scary or painful procedures on while I'm gone. Too much risk that she'll panic and hurt them, or that they'll panic and scare her further. And I trust my vet far more than most groomers, especially a groomer that had never worked on my dog before.

Are we talking about letting a dog go to the end of a long-line for a "self-correction" while running towards another dog with aggressive intent? For far too many reasons I would not attempt that. It isn't safe, it isn't responsible (to either dog), and it isn't good training. It wouldn't even be good Koehler method training. I have used corrections. I don't live in a vaccuum. I had a practical knowledge before a theoretical knowledge With my training I'm not just aiming to be able to walk a dog-aggressive dog past another dog, I have my own dog walking off-leash with other dogs, free to make her own decisions and not under command to do anything specific preventing her from aggression. We were attacked by two dogs recently, she ignored them until she absolutely had to defend herself then she did what she had to do then let it go and we walked off as if nothing had happened. This is a bitch from hard, working lines and in the past she has attacked legs, belly and throat (inhibited bites, but death threats all the same). It takes a lot of positive experiences to turn that around, we're not just talking about overt behaviours but also affective behaviours, emotions, brain chemicals, nervous system activity etc I didn't say that the correction you described wouldn't work (nor am I sure we were talking about the same thing?), but that the probability was low. I don't need to correct her for reaching the end of the line to teach her to come back, I have taught her to come back without doing that. I have used (very judiciously) some collar pops in that process, and they were enough. I have done it a few times in extreme cases allowing a self correction on a long leash, but is critical to ensure that the dog doesn't gain too much momentum to prevent an injury but enough to provide a good correction. It was an old method used to stop dogs chasing cars, but in this day and age, I would opt for an ecollar in the same situation. If one wants to correct a dog for being inappropriately predatory, then I would think that this wasn't the most effective way to give a correction, seeing as the dog has already self rewarded by going into prey drive & starting the chase before the correction is issued? In my limited experience, giving a correction just as the dog is orienting on the stimulus is far more effective than giving a correction once the dog is amped up in full prey mode. Just saying. The self reward is catching the prey and the dog came to the end of the line before it caught it, in other words the prey attempt failed. A few failures with enough negativity to take the dog out of drive makes the dog rethink it's decisions. I disagree. It has been my experience that for many high drive dogs, the very act of going into drive is rewarding, even if the drive isn't actually satisfied with a bite. Frustration increases drive.

I think you might have missed the point. I don't want people on here to "support me" because I want to support pet stores that sell pets. I was here venting about my sadness at the situation & wishing I could save the pup from people expressing an interest in what looked like a temporary ownership of the pup. Like I said, I'm on the list of reputable breeders & felt sad for the pup & wanting to rescue him. Yes, it's hard. Not buying him is the right thing, but you can't help feeling sorry for the little guy in the cage. Not his fault he's there.

Are we talking about letting a dog go to the end of a long-line for a "self-correction" while running towards another dog with aggressive intent? For far too many reasons I would not attempt that. It isn't safe, it isn't responsible (to either dog), and it isn't good training. It wouldn't even be good Koehler method training. I have used corrections. I don't live in a vaccuum. I had a practical knowledge before a theoretical knowledge With my training I'm not just aiming to be able to walk a dog-aggressive dog past another dog, I have my own dog walking off-leash with other dogs, free to make her own decisions and not under command to do anything specific preventing her from aggression. We were attacked by two dogs recently, she ignored them until she absolutely had to defend herself then she did what she had to do then let it go and we walked off as if nothing had happened. This is a bitch from hard, working lines and in the past she has attacked legs, belly and throat (inhibited bites, but death threats all the same). It takes a lot of positive experiences to turn that around, we're not just talking about overt behaviours but also affective behaviours, emotions, brain chemicals, nervous system activity etc I didn't say that the correction you described wouldn't work (nor am I sure we were talking about the same thing?), but that the probability was low. I don't need to correct her for reaching the end of the line to teach her to come back, I have taught her to come back without doing that. I have used (very judiciously) some collar pops in that process, and they were enough. I have done it a few times in extreme cases allowing a self correction on a long leash, but is critical to ensure that the dog doesn't gain too much momentum to prevent an injury but enough to provide a good correction. It was an old method used to stop dogs chasing cars, but in this day and age, I would opt for an ecollar in the same situation. If one wants to correct a dog for being inappropriately predatory, then I would think that this wasn't the most effective way to give a correction, seeing as the dog has already self rewarded by going into prey drive & starting the chase before the correction is issued? In my limited experience, giving a correction just as the dog is orienting on the stimulus is far more effective than giving a correction once the dog is amped up in full prey mode. Just saying.

If you rescue this pup, you're directly causing the pet shop to replace him with another pup. Supply and demand. Pet stores will only stop stocking live animals when people stop buying them.