Staranais

Ha, luckily my new addition seems to have a cast iron stomach, so with her I just go for whichever good petshop quality kibble is on special. So far she's eaten RC, Eukanuba, & Nutro, and seemed to like & react to all of them just fine. From what I can see there's actually not that much difference in ingredients or quality between different kibbles, certainly not enough to account for the price difference between premium and middle-of-the-road kibbles. Even the super duper expensive grain free ones are still full of starches in order to hold the kibble together. Since I'm on a budget, my philosophy is that I'd rather feed her a decent kibble plus raw, than spend that same amount of $ feeding her a premium quality kibble - I think that combination is the best diet I can get on my budget. If I had unlimited funds, I'd probably feed something like the Ziwipeak dehydrated for the "kibble" component of her diet, or might just go all raw for her. I also feed a little "butch blue label" dog roll in the commercial component of her diet, it's locally made, not too expensive, my guys like it, and the ingredients list is impressive. I'm hopefully getting a free sample of "Ultra" to try this week, it's no more expensive than the RC, the ingredients look reasonably good, and it's made in NZ. Will let you know how I get on!

I'm not sure if we even talked about this - the thread is so big it's hard to remember which topics have come up! I think the premade BARF style mixes can be good if the mix is an appropriate one, but doesn't have the benefits for teeth that feeding RMB and meat chunks does. I had a look at Dr B's raw pet foods a while back and it looked very good to me, at least from the ingredients list and limited nutritional data available on the website. You could possibly buy that and add some bones to it and meat chunks a few times a week for dental health, and that would IMO be a pretty good diet for a dog or cat. Kibble is fine for most dogs but will always have a reasonable amount of carbohydrates in (even the grain free kibbles will have some sort of starch to hold the kibble together), which some owners don't like, and which doesn't agree with some dogs. I think it's definitely better to feed a premium kibble than a crappy raw diet though. Like all things, there are good kibbles and really crappy ones. There are also freeze dried dog foods, which have the convenience of kibble with less or no grains or starches, but which tend to be rather pricey. I personally feed half kibble and half raw, as for me that is the best way to get a healthy diet for my dog within my budget.

I feed the oil, don't see any reason why not to.

Yup that's what I do. Feed half as much RC as you would if you were just feeding RC (guideline should be on side of packet), and half as much raw as you'd feed were you just feeding raw.

Well, just feed a mini version of a raw diet, use the same proportions of raw foods as you would feed if you were feeding only raw. My version of raw is approx 40% chicken frames, approx 40% raw red meat, 5% liver, 5% other organs, and the remaining 10% made up of fish, eggs, veges, and fruit. So for the half of the diet that my dog gets raw, she gets those same proportions, just half as much food as she'd get as if she were eating only raw. Come on over to the raw thread if you like.

I don't know why, Rommimum, but the NZ obedience rules are very different to the Australian ones. I like your obedience system better than ours, I think, yours makes it easier for any breed to compete and get a title. I agree it's a pity! A well executed flip finish is cool to see. You guys are lucky having the option.

I've fed both raw and Royal canin at the same time to my dog (different meals), and was quite happy with combining them. Royal canin is a pretty good kibble, but raw meat and bones are also healthy and particularly great for teeth. Combing the two was pretty convenient, since I'd do a kibble meal when I was rushed for time or when I wanted to use his meal for training purposes, and a raw meal when I had the time to defrost the bones and supervise him eating. I'd say give it a go and see if your dog thrives on it.

In NZ we're only allowed to do around the back finishes and U turn LAT, anything else is a fault. My last boy had a lovely flip finish, and we never got to show it off in the ring! I wish they were more flexible over here, no idea why they're not. ;)

That's pretty much exactly what you do when you're going to use an e-collar, to ensure a dog doesn't become e-collar smart, but it never occured to me to do it with harnesses and headcollars as well before using them. Interesting idea! ;)

I think I might know that forum ;)

Arthritis (DJD) often develops secondary to unstable joints caused by loose ligaments and cruciate tears. I would also worry about the dog jumping 2m fences, though, even after the therapy.

Glad to hear it.

Yes it certainly does But you did give me a fright cause I was thinking oh crap shouldn't I feed Benson raw due to his allergies (Atopy) but then realised that this is not sickness as such *phew* Didn't mean to give you a fright sorry - if anything, I think a good raw diet would help the atopy, as long as you avoid any food items he might also be allergic to. :p

Oh he's handsome! Is there some staffy in there?

I believe the answers are in my earlier posts. May I now ask a question of you, please? Can you explain why the Expiry Date and Batch Number information should not and need not be provided to the person who purchases the medicine to give to their dog, please? Thank you. I actually think it would be a good idea to be provided, although I don't think medicines should generally be dispensed so far in advance that the use by date actually becomes an issue. If I were a vet, I wouldn't generally want my clients storing medicine up to use later, no matter what the expiry date said. However, if people are concerned, I imagine there's nothing to stop them asking their own vet for the use by date when they purchase the drugs. The vet doesn't have to give it to you, but you don't have to go back either - use your consumer power!

Yes I wondered if that would be the case. It does seem logical that if he can't feel any discomfort then he's going to be rougher on those joints, leading to faster degeneration. And of course you don't want his hips to degenerate faster than he has to, so if you can control his pain through other means, I can see why you'd want to delay the surgery for as long as you can. However, if he's in pain which you can't control through drugs, then I'd still say go the surgery. It's about quality of life, not quantity of life, sometimes. Hard decision - I'm sorry you're in the position of having to make the call. And yes, it can be very hard to tell when they're in pain sometimes. At school they tell us, if you're in any doubt whether an animal is experiencing pain, always opt on the safe side and give them pain meds. But of course for long term NSAID use, you've got to weigh up the side effects as well, which can sometimes also be unpleasant.

Just hold it closer and closer to the ground, then put it on the ground but leave your hand on it, then on the ground but take your hand off just as she reaches for it, then no hand... Baby steps! If at any point she doesn't get it, just go back a step and move more slowly.

I guess I don't really see the point of x-raying again unless the vet recommends it. If Dexter has confirmed HD and ED, then the decision about what to do next should IMO be based on how much pain he's in, and you just can't tell that from a radiograph. How crappy the hips look on x-ray doesn't always directly relate to his quality of life, or how much discomfort he's feeling. I haven't heard about the denervation surgery before, but if it's intended just to reduce the amount of pain he's in, then if you're not managing his pain adequately with the NSAIDs I would definitely consider giving it a shot. If you're expecting to have to PTS at some point because of the pain, he might as well spend the last few years of his life as pain-free as possible. And I personally don't think it's necessary to keep him in discomfort or pain just to get a better indication of how fast his hips are degenerating - since at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter how his hips are actually doing, since your decision to PTS will be related to how much pain he's in (not how the radiographs look). Those are just my thoughts without knowing the details of what the surgery entails, though, or what the side effects might be. I'd discuss it very carefully with your vet before making your decision. Also, is he on any dietary supplements for joint health? Sasha's blend, glucosamine/chondroitin, fish oil, etc? They're not miracle substances, but I think they can help some dogs. Good luck.

How do you mean immunosuppresssed? What illiness exactly? No specific disease in mind, since any illness or drug that results in a dog being severely immunosuppressed is going to result in that dog's gut having less ability to deal with the pathogens that are associated with raw meat (e.g, salmonella in raw chicken). A raw diet is a great option for a healthy dog, but when dogs become very sick then raw is IMO not always the best option for a sick dog (although it sometimes is, depends on the illness). Remember that in the wild very sick wolves tend to just die, which isn't the outcome we want with our dogs. Hence, we sometimes have to use drugs and artificial foods and other "unnatural" things to care for our dogs when they're ill, even though it may not be optimal to give them those foods or drugs when they're healthy. Hope that makes sense. :D

Interesting, what problems did they see to make their attitudes change, Oceanaussie? I think we'd be hiding our heads in the sand to claim that dogs never choke on raw, or never get bone impactions from raw, or perforated guts, or salmonellosis etc. These things undoubtedly do happen to some dogs. But the more important question is whether raw has overall health benefits compared to kibble (which of course also has risks - periodontal disease, the risk that it lacks any nutrient not included in "AAFCO" profiles, choking on kibble bits, etc). Also I believe that we need to be sensible in recommending which dogs be fed raw - dogs on medication that might reduce stomach acid, for example, or dogs suffering from severe immunosuppression, are prime candidates for a home made cooked diet instead of a raw one. JMO.

They are expected to account for restricted drugs, over here in NZ anyway. But being a veterinarian is a position of trust - like a doctor, lawyer, dentist - you are background checked before you're admitted to the profession, and then you do get access to things other people don't, since you need them to do your job. So it's very easy for a vet to get drugs ordered in and then make them "disappear" by saying you're using them on some animal or other, or claiming they have expired and were disposed of. Most vets who abuse drugs unfortunately tend to do so by taking them themselves, either recreationally, or to commit suicide. Off topic, but being a vet (or vet student) is apparently one of the worse professions for suicide. They actually give us lectures on how not to abuse drugs, and how not to kill ourselves when we get out into practice, at vet school. A worry, huh? Back to the original topic, though, I think you need to find a new vet. I've never had a vet give a clinical exam without abdominal palpation, or give me drugs out of the foil packet.

Thanks for the link. That table's more saying that there's a link between pack size and prey size (packs with more wolves tend to prey on larger animals), not what proportion of large/small animals a typical pack preys on. Still very interesting though, and makes a lot of sense - you'd expect that larger prey animals would require a larger group to hunt them, whereas there's no point forming a pack to hunt small animals. Sorry everyone else, Tomas and I have rather taken over this thread. Edited to add, oooh thanks, will look at those other papers (maybe tommorrow though).

Oh interesting, thanks! If you can quote the journal, authors and study name, I'll see if I can get full text through university so we can see the whole thing. Not trying to insult you if you already know this, but you do know that p < 0.0001 mean that they're really sure of their result, not that the wolves ate less than 0.0001% other vertebrates and fruit, right? Just wondering cos you bolded it.

Nope I am a Personal Trainer and 'human' Nutritionist. I am a qualified Archaeologist though,don't ask,I had NO idea what I wanted to be when I was at University! So did that and a Geography. I did a year of Anatomy though ,does that count? BTW when do you graduate? I will have to go find said book.... Am in the middle of third year now, so graduate at the end of 2011. My first degree was genetics - I'm pretty indecisive too! Would love to get the info when you find it. Cool,decided on a thesis yet? I am looking ....and watching Fear Factor.... Don't do one where I study - and we have so much to do already I don't know where we'd fit one in! Only one more year of full time lectures, then they throw us into the teaching clinic for a year to practice on real animals. Might go back a few years after I graduate to specialise & get more fancy letters though. I'm a sucker for higher education. Any ideas on a thesis topic yet? I'd love to do a feeding study on tartar build-up in cats which are fed dental kibble vs regular kibble vs pet roll vs pet roll supplemented with meaty bones & raw meat chunks, but that will have to wait a few years I'm afraid.

Nope I am a Personal Trainer and 'human' Nutritionist. I am a qualified Archaeologist though,don't ask,I had NO idea what I wanted to be when I was at University! So did that and a Geography. I did a year of Anatomy though ,does that count? BTW when do you graduate? I will have to go find said book.... Am in the middle of third year now, so graduate at the end of 2011. My first degree was genetics - I'm pretty indecisive too! Would love to get the info when you find it.