Staranais

I'd love to borrow these DVDs for a week to view, if anyone has them and would be willing to share. I'd pay postage here and back, of course, and would include a little something extra for your trouble (probably something of a chocolately nature!) Anyone, please?

How cool, they obviously both understand their jobs really well. How did you teach them, Vickie? Did you use the same method for both dogs?

It can be a good idea to get something like a kong toy, one you can stuff, to fill with the pup's supper and leave in the crate with them. Gives them something to do to keep their mind off being alone in there, and gives them a nice association with the crate.

From what I know (remember I'm only a student!) it's mostly by excluding other possibilities. Do as many tests as the owner can or will pay for (bloods, fecal egg, thyroid, skull rads, MRI), and if you find nothing else that could cause the problem, call it idiopathic epilepsy. Technically I guess an EEG could confirm it, but most vets don't have that equipment, and it's damn expensive, plus I would imagine very difficult to capture the moment when a dog like this seizes since it happens so infrequently. Probably not practical here. Sometimes if they strongly suspect epilepsy they just medicate and see if the problem goes away - diagnosis by treatment! Most of these drugs have side effects though (sedation, sleepiness, eating more, drinking and urinating more), so they're not something you'd put a dog on if you didn't have to. Definitely better than PTS though, if that's the alternative. Our pham lecturer reckons the drugs are very effective in about 1/3 the cases of canine epilepsy, help somewhat in 1/3 of cases, and don't help it all in the others. He also told us that there is some evidence that a high fat, low carbohydrate, ketogenic diet can help prevent seizures in human children, and it's worth thinking about for canine patients. So a visit to a canine nutritionist may also be in order, if the vet thinks it's epilepsy, and the owner is prepared to make a homemade diet. Cavalier or Rappie, the resident real vets here, could probable help more. I just know the theory at the moment, not the practice!

Me too, but only if it's OK to mention.

Good luck with it & let us know how you get on!

I'd personally avoid anyone who advertises themself as an amichien bonding trainer, if you can. IMO, good trainers have lots of tools in their toolbox. The few amichien bonding trainers I've met have only had one tool in their toolbox (amichien bonding), and seem to interpret most doggy misbehaviour as being caused by dominance and therefore fixable by amichien bonding. If you only have a hammer, then everything looks like a nail. JMO.

My girl did this a few times around 12 weeks old, but only when she was very excited. I must admit I was a little surprised and bemused the first time - I've only had boy dogs before - I didn't know girl puppies did that too! I didn't deliberately punish her for it, besides pushing her off and stopping the play, but I think she saw the shocked look on my face and hasn't tried it since. She's a sensitive little thing! I think it would be a pretty rare puppy that had serious ideas about raising its place in the pack hierarchy at only 3 or 4 months old. Most "bad" behaviour at that age seem to be that either you just haven't taught the puppy not to do it (or haven't taught it what to do instead), or as Corvus says they're simply too tiny to show the self control yet. They are just toddlers, at that age. Sounds like Serket is doing well, gently discouraging the bad behaviours, and training all the good ones she prefers to see.

That's a good point, Aidan. I quite like it when my girl barks at the door, and I suspect that other people do too, at least in some circumstances (late at night, home alone, etc), so people are often probably not as consistent at discouraging the behaviour as they could be. Mind you, I just like a few barks, which is why I taught "bark up" and "quiet" away from the door, so I can ask for a "quiet" when she's had a little bark.

Thanks for your post, Staranais. The above is a good point. I've already sent the owner an email asking what her own Vet's thoughts were in relation to what seems to be (hypothesising because I haven't seen it) seizure activity. Waiting for a response. But yes - "regular epilepsy" could be an explanation. I'll post back when I have more info. Good luck with it all, it sounds like a real puzzler. If the G.P. vet thinks a medical condition is even a remote possibility, you could suggest referral to a behavioural medicine or small animal medicine specialist?

With my last boy, I premacked it - he had to hold a down stay on the other side of the room (practiced under distraction elsewhere), and the reward was he was released to run up and say hi to the person at the door (after I'd checked they were happy to meet a very enthusiastic staffy). If he were to break the stay I'd intercept him and plonk him back on the bed, and he didn't get to say hi. That only happened once or twice though, since we'd practiced the down stay until it was solid elsewhere. Haven't managed anything similar with the new girl yet, though!

Just normal variation, maybe? They've got to draw the cut off lines somewhere to declare things "normal" or "abnormal", but there's a lot of individual variation in most aspects of biology and what would be pathological in one dog might be quite normal for another. Good on you for checking it out, though. Interesting thread. Have you considered just regular epilepsy? I think partial seizures are sometimes associated with random aggressive behaviour.

That's my opinion too, the dumbbell shouldn't be the reward, it's only the neutral task that the dog completes to earn the reward. I also think it's important not to confuse the formal retrieve with the fun/play retrieve. They should be totally different activities. I really like the shirley chong method for teaching the formal retrieve. I got a lovely formal retrieve on my last dog (very mouthy staffy) using the shirley chong clicker method to get him retrieving to front, then switching over to a prey drive reward to avoid the conflict (and mouthing) that comes with having to hand the toy over. Worked really well. My new girl (mally) picked up the basics of the retrieve using the clicker method in one session last week. Not formal presentation, but just picking up the metal article when I threw it away and delivering it to hand. She's pretty bright though (one clicker session a few weeks ago, she sat down and watched me with her head cocked for a few seconds, then grabbed my hand and clicked the clicker... yes, I treated. ).

I don't use organic products for my animals' diets (or my diet) due to the cost. I do use free range eggs. I'd feed free range chicken before I'd feed organic chicken since that is more of a priority for me, but currently can't afford either. The dog isn't exactly the same as the wolf, but these benefits remain constant: * Raw is better for dental health than canned food or most kibbles * I know exactly what goes into a home made raw diet, unlike a commercial product - I can see the quality of the meat and vegetables I'm feeding, and not just have to take the kibble manufacturer's word that they are good quality * I think fresh produce is generally more healthy than highly processed food, for people and for dogs (and wolves!) * Raw is far more fun for the dog, it provides a good work out for the jaws and environmental enrichment * I can source all of my raw food from within this county, unlike kibble which often comes from overseas. To me, that's a bonus because a) I know food processing standards are high here compared to many other countries, and b) I know food animals are treated (relatively) well over here, compared to how they live in many other countries. That's important to me, not my dog, but since I'm the one with the credit card my opinion matters as much as hers. Unlike many posters, I don't find raw cheaper than kibble, the reverse in fact, which is one of the reasons why I just feed semi-raw instead of all raw. I vaccinate C3 2 - 3 times as a puppy, a one year booster, then every 3 years. I will give a kennel cough vacc if she needs to go to the kennel, as they require this. I deflea and deworm using commerical veterinary products, but only when required.

Oooh, cunning idea M-J! Lots to play round with here, thanks guys. We're currently concentrating on walking backwards and the "elephant" trick. Will get back to you all in a month or two with a report of success & what worked (or a request for more ideas...)

Depends what's in the mince. If it's minced chicken carcasses or necks, then it's a RMB. If it's minced meat, then it's meat (make sure you feed lots of red meat too though, especially to the puppy). If you don't know exactly what's in it then I personally wouldn't feed it, especially not to a puppy.

I'd count oesophagus as muscle meat. My pup gets about 1/3 of her raw as red muscle meat (including heart), and about 10% as green tripe (when I can get it), 5% is beef liver, 5% is ruminant kidney, 1/3 is edible raw meat bones, and the rest is made up of assorted goodies like raw eggs, fish, other organs, porridge, veges, and fruit. But other people will do different things. There's no one way to feed a dog, and with adult dogs, you do get quite a lot of lee-way as many dogs do well on a variety of diets. With pups, you need to be a bit more careful that they're getting all the nutrients they need, and that they're getting the right amount of calcium, and the right Ca:P ratio. You can tell which stomach is which by the pattern of the tissue lining them inside, and by their location, and their shape and size. The reticulum has a really obvious honeycomb pattern inside, and the rumen has little blunt papillae on the inside walls, these are first and are large, and are closely joined together. The omasum has folds like a book, and comes next. The abomasum is last, it looks just like a monogastric stomach (like a human or dog stomach), with wrinkles and folds inside. If you google, there are photos of the insides of all the stomach compartments on the net.

Don't get the abomasum (last, or true, stomach), I'm not sure if this can be safely fed or if a dog would like it, but it won't have the nutritional content of the forestomachs in any case. I wouldn't bother with it. The first three stomachs (rumen, reticulum and omasum) are all very good to feed, and are what people mean when they refer to green tripe. Your butcher may know the reticulum as honeycomb tripe, the rumen as smooth tripe, and the omasum as book or bible tripe. These are the fermenting chambers that the grass passes through before it gets to the "true" stomach, they should be full of good bacteria and partially fermented grass. I'm not sure about the intestines (= everything past the stomach), I guess I see no reason not to feed a little if your dog will eat it, but it won't have the nutritional value of the green tripe. I probably wouldn't bother with it. Oesophagus is good too, but it will count towards your muscle (not organ) part of the diet as it's just a muscular tube.

Yes, pet grade doesn't mean humans can't eat it, it just means they probably wouldn't want to. I'm not sure about that, actually, Gayle - I guess it would be true if it's the individual butcher deciding to sell his scraps as pet food, but I've been told that meat that is condemned at the works is usually sold as "pet meat" to butchers, pet food manufacturers and supermarkets. Meat gets condemned for aesthetic reasons, but also for things like parasite cysts found in the meat or the animal being found to have some sort of disease. If I were buying pet quality meat, I'd be extra careful to freeze it before feeding it in case some nasties had slipped through. That's just what I've heard though. I'll come back in report in a few years after I've had my compulsory stint on meat inspection at the freezing works in vet 5th year (ugh, not looking forward to it!), and can let you all know first hand exactly where the pet grade meat comes from.

* Kibble for clicker work at home * Chopped pre-cooked sausage for tracking and very occasionally when we need high power treats for out-and-about in high distraction environments As Aidan says, if the dog's not interested in the food, then I think there are other issues for us to work on - I'm asking too much of her in that environment and we need to move further away from the distraction, or she's getting too much attention and praise at home for doing nothing - and I tend to focus on fixing that rather than going searching for new and exotic foods to tempt her taste buds with. We do most our training with toys or play/praise anyway, though. I'm lucky that she's pretty easy to motivate (although still very distractable, like any little puppy!)

My girl (5 months old) gets fish body oil (with vit E) most days a week, as well as chondroitin sulphate once or twice a week. I figure it may or may not help, but it won't hurt. I want to do lots of jumping and hiking with her when she's older, and prevention is better than cure...

Aw thanks Erny - warm fuzzies! I have to pass these exams first though, so keep your fingers crossed for me (and um, feel free kick me off DOL if you see me on here procrastinating in the next few weeks)... For the people buying and using killed vaccine instead of modified live vaccine (MLV), remember that killed vaccines don't work nearly as well as MLV at provoking an immune response, and there is much less evidence that they provide long term immunity against parvo. The World Small Animal Veterinary Association recommend MLV instead of killed vaccine for parvovirus except in specific circumstances for exactly this reason, and I tend to agree with them. They also typically need to add adjuvent (chemical nasties) into the killed vaccines to make them work, which are left out of the MLV. If it were my dog, I'd probably prefer to give a live C3 over a killed single parvo shot. Your call, but be aware there is a difference between the vaccines. www.wsava.org/PDF/Misc/VGG_09_2007.pdf

I can actually never recall an incident where I have been annoyed by illegally offleash small dogs. I can remember several incidents where I've been harassed by illegally offleash medium or large breed dogs though. Perhaps small dogs owners round here are just very polite compared to small dog owners elsewhere. Or perhaps the small breed dog owners we ran into just weren't silly enough to let their small dogs tangle with a staffy since they knew they'd come off second best. But I think it's a generalisation to say that small dogs tend to have worse manners or be less well controlled than large dogs. That certainly hasn't been my experience, though I have no doubt it must happen sometimes.

Unless you have to provide a recent titre result to get your dogs into somewhere like a kennel or obedience club, then for the C3 I would agree with you that titres are largely a waste of money. The one possible exception being a few weeks after one vaccine, if you want to see for your own satisfaction that your dog has responded to it. JMO.

I think small and large dogs should both show good behaviour in public, as far as is possible. I think that people do sometimes underestimate the damage an aggressive small dog can do to a child or another animal, and many people need to take aggression shown by small dogs more seriously, instead of writing it off as "cute" or "just what small dogs do". However, I also think we'd be silly to pretend that a small dog can cause as much damage to a person or another dog as a large dog can if it were to attack, and be respectful of the fact that many people are actually very scared of large dogs. As the owner of a large dog, I am concious that many people do find her intimidating (even at only 6 months old!), and that she needs to be under good control in public.