Erny

Question on this ^ ^^^ Why not give the two routine puppy vaccinations and titre two weeks after to confirm sero-conversion? If sero-conversion is proven, why give another vaccination at 14 months of age?

I wouldn't be giving up. :)

Unusual to experience hair loss in that spot. A photo would assist, but one of my first thoughts was the possibility of a thyroid issue. One of the symptoms of thyroiditis is poor hair growth. If her hair growth is retarded, this could be the reason why she is exhibiting a bald spot where her chest touches the ground when laying. Thinning of the hair from under the neck through to the chest is a common area affected in these cases. Does she exhibit any other health issues, such as skin condition/s, dull coat, inexplicable weight gain, to mention only a few?

I don't wish to get your hopes up either, but I would be going for a hair-DNA sample and following the directions for herbal remedy/supplements following the analysis. It may turn out to be a matter of spending money without the results you might hope for, but I do have a good amount of faith in herbal/natural supplements for support and remedy, and it may prove worth your while. I'm really sorry you're going through this. It is heart and gut wrenching.

ari.g - it is perfectly fine if she drinks the tea. I drink it regularly and if my dog wants some, I let him have as much as he wants to drink. It's good for inside and outside the body :)

Agree, Airedaler. Cortisone has its place but if you can identify the causal trigger for the Granuloma and properly treat that, that would be better. I hope the Aloe Vera treatment has the same great results as it did for Steve's daughter. If you do decide to explore the path of thyroid level checks, may I strongly urge you to by-pass the Aussie testing. Reason being is our testing is not to the finite degree as the USA testing is. In Australia, the tests don't show up thyroid dysfunction until the thyroid tissue is 70% destroyed. In the USA, the testing can pick up thyroid dysfunction far earlier than that. So, if you had a test done in Australia and it showed "negative", it wouldn't necessarily mean that thyroid was not the culprit. In addition, the analysis is not as accurate either. In Australia, the analysis is based on "small, medium or large" dog. In USA (using Dr Jean Dodds), the analysis is based on "small, medium, large" as well as "age" as well as "breed". The testing via USA might be a little less convenient but it is not exorbitantly more expensive and results are fast (turn around time for me is generally 1 week approximately).

I second Alpha Bet's recommendation (along side my recommendation for Dr Bob Cavey which I think I inadvertently put in the other thread in "General"). Dr Bruce Syme is all for not over-loading the dog's system with chemicals and he's a lovely Vet to boot. He is one I drove to (3 hours each way) because in the advent of my boy's health issues becoming apparent, the only Vets over my way back then, all wanted to administer antibiotics and cortisone, even in the absence of diagnoses. I have much respect and appreciation for Dr Bruce Syme.

Airedaler - what checks/investigations have you had done for this condition? I don't know much of anything about it (Steve would definitely know more as she's got first-hand experience on it), but I know I've read there can be a link between granuloma and thyroid dysfunction. Have you had your dog's thyroid levels checked? (And if you did, were the tests done via Australian Labratories, or elsewhere?)

Recently I think, from not getting enough exercise due to the 40+ c degree weather. Please read all of my post before you reply. Roka - physical exercise is #2 priority. Mental exercise is the #1. It's the lack of mental exercise that creates boredom. Take for example, children. They can achieve physical AND mental exercise by playing outside, using their imaginations, etc. But they can also achieve mental exercise sitting in a chair, inactive physically, but colouring in pictures, playing board games etc. You can send a child out to the back yard to run around, but without something to think about in the process, that activity quickly becomes boring. Yet give a child something to think about and occupy their minds and boredom is pushed aside. Generally, you end up with a child who is mentally satiated and ready for rest. The same applies for dogs. Although it is hot and that's not great weather for either yourself or your dog to go walking out in (and walking doesn't necessarily = sufficient mental stimulation), it doesn't stop you from being able to provide some mental stimulation to your dog through the teaching of tricks. If it is only boredom that is the cause of the barking, frequent short sessions of trick training should make a huge difference. The above would be far more appreciated by your dog as, if he is barking through boredom, you might render his voice box inefficient in "nuisance value" but you'll still have a dog that is bored, and that would hardly be fair on your dog. I am one who believes debarking (via a well reputed Vet successfully experienced in the practice of debarking) as opposed to pts is the better option, but it is my thoughts that surgery should only be conducted if the causes for the barking have been well addressed. Be aware about crossing boarders for the surgery (if this is what you eventually do) and make sure you are aware of your own State's laws and requisite bureaucratic processes for doing so. It is likely different in the State you live in, but here in Victoria debarking is illegal. There has been incident of a person crossing the boarder for the sake of debarking by a reputable experienced Vet but unfortunately all the ticks and crosses for the required Victorian paperwork were inadvertently not met. The owner of the dogs (who were healthy and well looked after) was beset upon by the RSPCA with TV Crew in tow and the debarked dogs were seized from her and impounded to a shelter, leaving the owner to the indeterminably long process of fighting through the Courts to get them back. I am unaware of the ending of that story. The "catch" in the law in this State was that the owner exhibited one or more of the debarked dogs and it was that and ONLY that which gave the right for the RSPCA to seize the dogs, not because of any cruelty prosecution. So you need to be wary of fine print. But please do address the cause for the barking. There might be a more reasonably simple solution than you realise and overall, far better and healthier (physically AND mentally speaking) for your dog than being debarked. I don't think anyone has been rude or discourteous to you in response to your query and the posts I've read are only the thoughts of those who expected the insights to their opinions may assist, particularly as it is seems that you have your dog's best interests at heart.

The vaccination does not mean the dog won't contract it, though. Nor does it mean that the vaccinated dog can't bring it to the kennels on arrival.

Blackjaq hopefully they will send you a written copy of the titre test. Bruno's titre levels were high for Parvo (1:80), but much lower for distemper too ( 1:5). My vet explained it just as you did. :) Distemper is not as prevalent in most areas as Parvo is, therefore their immune 'memory' for Parvo is often stronger. The pathology report I received noted that although the Distemper levels were low, they still indicated some immunity. Or words to that effect. My vet was lamenting that Distemper and Parvo vaccinations are combined, and Distemper is not available separately, as that was all Bruno needed. I went ahead with a C3 and hope that will last us about 3 years. I was happy that he still had decent titre levels at 3 years old, considering his last C3 was when he was 12 weeks old. Even with a low antibody count for Distemper - immunity is still indicated. The numbers don't really mean diddly squat (other than they are an interesting indicator of recent exposure or not). Immunity is immunity. You either are, or you are not. So even if there had been a separate vaccine for Distemper, Bruno still wouldn't have needed it as immunity was still proven. Beyond that I'll add that I do believe in cell memory and if I got a titre that indicated no antibodies (after previous titres had shown sero-conversion had occurred), it really only indicates that the anti-bodies, realising they didn't need to be on active duty in the blood stream, had gone on leave for a rest and I wouldn't necessarily re-vaccinate. It doesn't mean the body has no defence anymore - Cell Memory would recall and activate those antibodies which would return to active duty again, on exposure to the relevant disease. I must admit I do like it, though, when the titre shows anti-body count, as it provides visual re-assurance. Because I suspect that due to my boy's sensitivities his puppy vaccine regime may well have contributed to his slightly later checkered health history, I will be interested to see whether there is a correlation to a "zero antibody count in a titre" and "resumption to best of health". I doubt that will ever occur, somehow, mainly because of ever present exposure of some sort. Don't mind me …. just musing on this last bit.

Good grief! Especially to the 2nd story. I'd happily recommend Dr Bob Cavey at Ultimate Veterinary Clinic. Telephone 8790 2425 Narre Warren South, VIC. If they tell him "Judi Buchan recommended him" he'll certainly understand where they're coming from :laugh: . Seriously though - I've recommended him to my Instructors and one of them travels one hour (each way) with her dogs to him, as she's found him down to earth, straight up, willing and able to work outside the square. She also gets her dogs titred via his clinic.

Me neither. In fact, never have. Every vet I can remember going to vaccs with C5s until I found a good holistic vet who does C3. Until then I had to request a C3. I don't see the purpose in vaccinating for KC. That's what the Vet Clinic I used back then did too. Were quite taken aback when I refused the C5 and insisted on C3. They weren't even sure they had one and had to go look in storage. Either that, or they had to order it in ….. I can't quite remember.

Me neither. In fact, never have. And yet my dog is not only exposed to other dogs at times through the training we do, but because of my job, I'm always coming home with *other dogs* all over my clothing. One bout of CC when he was about 4 months of age. Cough was first apparent symptom. A bit of lethargy in the next 24 hours. Was symptomatically fine within 48 hours and completely bounced back by day 3. Only used Active Manuka Honey. There was one other time I suspected CC and that was when he was about 2 or 3yo. But it was incredibly mild and barely a cough. Recovery was very fast. Used AMH and a syringe of Calendula Tea then too. He's now 5.5yo.

:laugh: That happens here too. It's so much easier, as if they aren't well and don't want to eat, they still seem to get a *buzz* out of the tablet exercise and some other non-food reward that follows. IOW, the motivation to take the tablet doesn't have to be food or the wanting of food. It's also good for when you still have to give a medication but because of impending anaesthetic, aren't supposed to give any food beforehand.

ERNY : MRR : Of course it's his choice. His choice to bounce into the kitchen spot where the tablet is given. His choice to throw himself into a sit (with a smile on his face) eagerly awaiting the next step (i.e. open mouth to receive tablet). His choice was to spit the tablet if that's what he wanted. He just doesn't get a reward if he doesn't take it. Yes - the choice is offered. And it wasn't too long before he began to volunteer to open his mouth, without persuasion. Remind me what you do with the sardine trick? I was only using the shake paw example as a "principal" behind the training that taught my dog what I needed him to do. Great that you taught your dog shake paw a different way. I taught my boy a different way for shake paw as well.

Puppy vaccination then Titre to confirm sero-conversion. Other titres I've had have been for interest only, or to satisfy requirements. No flea issue, so I don't de-flea. Heartworm cases where I am are almost non-existent as the temperature is generally not congenial to the development of heartworm, so weighing up detriment of the chemical necessary to administer -vs- likelihood, I opted for no. No tick issue, so don't use tick preventative. Doesn't have worms, so don't use wormer. (Low worm burden eradicated with use of natural herbs). I use Calendula Tea, Active Manuka Honey and Lugol's Solution for various periodic ailments, so have been able to avoid the use of antibiotics and cortisone. In essence, no chemicals used here whatsoever, beyond the initial puppy vaccine (and, given my dog's sensitivities, I'm not sure that didn't trigger his health issues - but that's not to say I'm opposed to puppy vaccine per se).

Not sure of the price comparison, cavNrott - I've not bothered as I wouldn't go to another Vet in this area regardless. I use Dr Bob Cavey at Ultimate Veterinary Clinic. Narre Warren South. Can't remember his pricing as it's been a while and the last Titre I had done I combined it with Mandela's annual Thyroid level check, which I get done via Dr Jean Dodds in the USA. It was cheaper for me to do it that way.

There's that word again. Use of anything relating to breed in an attempt to disprove the need for BSL won't work. There's only one thing you need to know about breed based bite statistics.... people who research dog attacks for a living won't touch them with a barge pole. They discredit ANY attempt to assign bites to breed for a range of reasons including misidentification of dogs and the fact that they don't account for crossbreeds. You can't win the BSL debate with any argument that involves breed because breed is irrelevant, inaccurate and unscientific when it comes to dog bite data. That's what's wrong with BSL in the first place. My highlights. Strongly agree again. If you want to get rid of BREED Specific Legislation, WE need to STOP talking "BREED" ourselves and discuss/debate with an overall objective to improvement for Community Safety.

I like this, along with the persistent assertion that BSL and any derivative continues to be a failure in terms of Community Safety and Welfare.

Think of the "guide show place" method of teaching a dog to shake paw. Grab paw, hold it up, and treat. Repeating and eventually weaning off the "grab" component and encouraging the dog to present the paw. That is in part how what my dog does, started. I would gently prise open his jaws, and pop in a tasty treat. This became easier and easier as he WANTED to receive the treat. On the times that it was not the treat that he received (i.e. when it was a tablet instead) I was very fast to follow it up with a tasty treat (it was already on the bench at hand, even though he might not have been aware of it). Teaching him to swallow (or "show me you've swallowed) came about a bit later, but not too much later. I would have my hand cupped under his chin to hold it upwards a bit and gently blow on his nose (this provokes the swallow/lick response). Weaned off the blowing on his nose and simultaneously taught him the word association with what is now the command "swallow". Now it doesn't much matter that it's only a tablet in my hand. He very much looks forward to me saying the words "take a tablet?" as for him it is like performing a trick that he's guaranteed to be rewarded for. If he spits a tablet (which is usually because I've mis-aimed it and not paid attention) I ask him to "take a tablet" pointing to the tablet that is by then on the floor. This "trick" is not 100% successful because we don't get to practice it too often. He tends to slam his paw on the tablet or, if he picks it up with his mouth he then spits and tosses it to me :laugh: .

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