Denis Carthy

A living memorial tribute to my life loving departed best friend & companion.... .

I am posting this 'cause someone from this site asked me privatly if e-collars were on sale & legal here & could I show links to UK collar retailer sites. For those who might be interested, yes e-collars are on sale & their use is legal here,the sales figs last year were an estimated 50,000, UK population around 64 million people, below are some e-collar retailers links, hope this answer's any incorrect or otherwise speculation. UK E-Collar Retailers https://www.electric-fence.co.uk/dog/dog-training-remote-trainers.html http://store.intl.petsafe.net/en-gb/training-behaviour/static http://www.paccollars.co.uk http://www.britishdog.net/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=Remote_Dog_Training_Collars .

Ahh, it was to do with CMs' stuff starting to influence pet dog owners here in UK, they had enough of ineffective, expensive 'reward training', (which in fact is an attempt to use negative punishment as a base) and when CM, came on TV here he started to influence them as the way to go.....the same pet dog owners were potential clients or ex clients of reward trainers so Casey & the rest of them started to slag CM off to try to discredit him and put their own client base at risk........lol, instead they ended up with those vids filling about 2 3rds of page 1 of a google search for her name + the uni lawyer trying to stop them.......so thats how come those vids emerged...... .

mita mr rusty bucket Bristol uni animal behaviour dept, specificaly in the 'dog training' area and senior lecturer Dr Rachel Casey was trashed in terms of its credibilty years ago. The author of the vids below was contacted by the unis' lawyer as long ago as 2009 and told to remove the only existing vid (at that time) about Dr Casey from youtube - The response to that letter was the vid maker made more vids which are all over youtube on Dr Rachel Casey Bristol Uni search 5 years on, the vid maker has the PDFs to prove his evidence and Bristol uni's legal dept could not and cannot do anything as a result, proffesionaly 'scared for life' comes to mind. Using Bristol unis 'science' as 'evidence' is like going to court and pleading guilty of silliness Bristol Dr Casey search http://bit.ly/1mTii5N .

ALL land snakes are deaf! That said, i never realized before now venomous snakes were so common out there. .

Is the sensation the dog gets from the collar when the handler pushes the button supposed to in itself reduce an undesirable behaviour, No, thats an old obsolete method which was used with the old shock collars and here in UK they were very rare, shock collar did not start to develop towards lower levels until the last couple years of the 1980's & the reason they were lowered is that TT (Tri Tronics) was working with its trainers who created the design stages. Here in UK they were almost unkown & there was no concept even envisaged about shock collars being used as a training aid of any kind, they were never a topic of conversation amongst trainers, we remained illiterate on them. .

What you and most others have written about 'shock' is not the way 'e-collars' are used throughout the rest of the world. The problem with Oz is that there seems to be bans and restrictions either all over the place.....i don't know whats where over there, i remember they were banned in, I think, Queensland as the result of the rspca god of all things sweet & nice, named Wirth, that was way back at least a decade ago.......i have no idea at all whats happened or where in oz since then. For the record, shock collars started to fall into technological and application obsolesence from 2000 onwards as manufacturers other than TT developed instant selection. Prior to instant selection and with most units to change the level the dog had to be recalled, the contact points unscrewed and another set screwed back to raise or lower the levels. .

Snook OK, thanks for all that, i had no idea folks were talking about the whole country,I was thinking about some areas of Oz, no more than that. I once lived in s africa & i was making informed guesswork from there, venomous snakes are there & the black mamba is reputed to be most lethal of all snakes but thats mainly in Natal & maybe up around the kruger park region, the cites seem not to have any problems with them. From what you have said s africa is not comparitive at all. Must say i am surprised they are all over Oz like that. .

Firstly, here in UK we do not have such snakes so there is no significant problems with them, there is one which has some mild venom but they seem quite rare,so in short, i am illiterate on that subject. Having read the posts on here on the venomous snake subject there seems to be a small number of people who would not take the steps needed to snake proof their dogs. I can only draw one possible conclusion from those factors, which is, those who live in areas where these type snake live & breed and who do not get their dog snake proofed to increase the chances of their dogs not being bitten should not have dogs at all and should not have had a dog in the first place knowing they would put its life at risk by not proofing it or having the proofing done by for them by experts. I suppose on a wider corridor there are people the world over who own dogs but who should never have had a dog in the first place, those referred to on here who would put their dogs life in the line by not getting it proofed in areas where that was used as a life saving safety proceedure should not have dogs at all, maybe if they read this I hope they consider rehoming their dog with someone who would proof it or alternatively rehome it in snake absent place in Oz! Maybe those who let these people have puppies in the first place should make it part of a contract these people do get them proofed with a fixed penalty if they default. .

This is another except this was done in a central London restaurant, jan 2008. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxYcfmRw-Ws .

I actually miss a few comments about the varying resistance of the fur I'm not surprised you missed a "few" comments, however, one comment 'says it all'.....if the contact points are in contact with the 'fur' the collars will not and cannot activate .

AND to and have the skills to train them to lay down on the spot for a long period. How many people are we talking about, here? It may not have been intentional on your part but the way you 'worded' that could jepordise some new to dogs & make them think a down stay at distance is difficult, it might put some off what is a very easy to learn and put into practice exercise & jepordise their interest and enthusiasm to carry on. The down stay with distractions is one of the easiest canine safety exercises to teach, because it has the potential of being a life saving safety command it ranks little less important than the other 2 priority safety commands, the "leave" & "recall" equivilants, any first time pet dog owner can be taught the down stay very easily and very simply, it's highly inapropriate and detrimental for you to to try & portray it as some kind of gift from the gods to the chosen few. Video - down stay with distractions with a normal dog and a normal owner and amusing police intervention at end London UK. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh8EuTyeFH4 .

You'r clear, obvious implication is that if a lost dog ends up on a road it will get killed by truck if its wearing collar in use as a lost dog recover method and if its not wearing an e-collar and trained in that, it would just as easy get on to a road but because its not on an e-collar no harm will come to it. Out of 100 dogs which have gotten lost somehow other and are between 5 to 10 miles distance from owner, 50 have the garmin/tri tronics system and are trained to do a down stay and await recovery (stay) and the remaining 50 have nothing which do you think would be the higher % of dogs recovered with no harm done out of the 2 groups???, Im interested in your answer Willem. .

But thats nothing more than the everyday normal differences between billions of individuals on billions of individual subjects, you think its irresponsible, I don't, i show the goods some will & do use it others will not bother. Now, of relevance, are you in an Aus state which has either bans or restrictions on e-collars and in consequence bans on learning anything about them??? .

But why would it scare you? you, obviously, you would not use it & if you had a dog lost it could just as easily end up squashed on a road without a collar, the later is really beside the point, what would be a relevant point is for those who refuse to learn about collars to ALSO demonstrate how they would recover their dog if it was lost by useing the Garmin sat nav without any way of recovering the dog.........the only thing I can forsee (correct me if i am wrong) is that they would simply watch the screen as their dog lost was wandering round in 12 miles radius, probably including roads & until it was out of range or lying dead on a road, in which case they could recover the remains......i request a sensible answer to that. .

Simply grand Yes,thanks for getting the topic back to educational posts, as Mcfarlon demo's here conditioning Foundation For Off lead Distance Recall https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsO66m4e820 Meanwhile, here in UK, in 2006, the method of using tapping to give an instruction to down stay so any lost dog could be recovered if it had a remote activation tracking beeper on. See the vid demo carried out on normal exercise, 2008 vid clip....over 20 e-stims occure in the 4 examples shown Excercise For *Lost Dog Recovery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdwIMrcW0hc * Appx 3 years ago Tri Tronics sold out to Garmin, the lost dog recovery exercise is now possible up 9 miles with the garmin-tri tronics integrated technologies http://www.garmin.com/en-US/explore/onthetrail/sporting-dogs#track-train .

Corvus Kudos to curvus, such a medium scale work of the highest artistic and and intellectual impact is surely worth submitting in a major competitionfor international art & litrature. .

Kajirin as technology has changed since the old actual shock collar days. Shock collars started to fall into technological obsolescence from mid 2000 onwards when, after 32 years development, Tri-Tronics launched the Pro 100 & 500 series of training collars, other manufacturers took around another 5 years before they developed their own equivilent application technologies. The electrical technology is very easy to understand, it is trans cutaeneous electrical stimulation technology, the current is around the same as most other TENS units in domestic use all over the world, here in europe tens products sold in chemists or anywhere else, they are not restricted, hardly surprising as electricity is universally acclaimed & recognised for its benefits to man and other species (which seems to surprise some). The pulse type used by all e-collar manufacturers is the 'micro pulse' mA (millionth sec), a pulse travelling at that speed cannot be felt by mammals so the pulse rate/speed is 'slowed' down by 'grouping' 1000mA together, so in effect, each pulse lasts 1000 per sec ms, then on all tens products & including e-collars the pulses are sent out in 'groups' of several ms, the number of ms pulses determins the sensation level. In europe & probably the rest of the world. E-collars start at around 5mA (0.005) which is around the threshold of sensation, each level is a bit higher & so on. I hope that gives more understanding of e-collars, the top level on high end collars is usually around .80 to .90mA, the same as most other tens products including erotic tens toys. The "Electric Shock" collar. The electric shock collar was invented by a Bavarian vet named Dr Scheker or Sheker, he designed it because many of his hunting dog clients hunting dogs got lost or injured when they went on a chase & there was no way to stop them. It was never on sale here in UK but one firm in the 1970's & 1980"s did have one for hire in those days. The collar comprised of two electrical units placed on either side of the dogs neck, the pulse was very high and went straight through the dogs neck, one record times the duration at 30 secs, little else is known about it. Anyway back to Aus & dol. In 2002 (1) Orion Pet Products Aus were awarded 100,000$ when they sued RSPCA Aus for liable due to RSPCA slagging e-collars, the rspca were also awarded 30,000$ because orion called them liars. After & in part because of that case there was some kind of (2) attempt (maybe succesful?) to amend existing legislation regarding RSPCA aus privaledged position, i dont understand the file details, so.....hope that throws some light on collars. ref 1. http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/article/orion-pet-products-pty-ltd-v-royal-society-for-the-prevention-of-cruelty-to#sthash.qLU6dAu0.dpbs 2. http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/tableOffice/CommSubs/CriminalOLAB/001.pdf Tens products http://bit.ly/1P7dRyi http://bit.ly/1Wmsdxj http://bit.ly/1Hbdpsk Erotic, Tens Electrical Stimulation Sex Aids. Please note, this advert contains explicit electro sex aid descriptions. http://bit.ly/1RBB4Yv .

Hi stressmagnet.... Im just posting this to give you a little moral booster - It is quite possible to train a recall from just about any situation, although it's best done with a "leave" foundation base. See link below, when I used to post here some years ago 'Ernie' & 'SteveK9' were giving good guidlines for that sort of thing alone with a few others whose usernames I cannot recall, no idea if they still post here, see link for recalls from predatory chases & a couple of other things & take some hope from it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R33iI12-N-U .

Hi Aus, I haven't posted for years so I thought I'd call by & show a couple of samples of UK standard 'training' results, all vid clips are of unplanned events as they happened in the moment & the consequences shown within cameras limits. Pom dogs showing off!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf2Ng8LTkjQ .

UK recall demonstrations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edE_UOOeRgA .

This is the self proclaimed best behaviourist and trainer in the whole of the UK and his magic training aid - The Jingler Caution - this video contains the word B***rd and may offend some people.....LOL ex pat poms, a taste of home ;) http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AsqXvHFnLtU CV of the said best behaviourist in Britain http://tinyurl.com/4rxrjr .

Vid 4 Final Video In My Educational Series - 'Training by touch-E-collar training basic Learning principles'. Easy veiwing. This video is far less drawn out with talk than the rest because as educational vids those who want to learn will have learned from the preceeding 3 videos. I have made this one a little lighthearted to make veiwing easy. Stims used in training vid. 1. Pen stim 2. Kitchen foil stim 3 Eccles cake stim 4 E-collar stim. Training Dogs With An Eccles Cake! Denis Carthy et al http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lVQG9t6zjKs Full Youtube List Of This Series Videos 1-4 http://uk.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=F4D8FDC0CAD25AA6 .

Denis

Video introduction to training by touch. E-collar training basic principles Narrated Video 1 - Training by touch- Basic principles of e-collar training http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=glZeRu-_ohI Video 2 – Training by touch- Basic principles of e-collar training http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JLxlutwRT-s Video 3 - Training By Touch – Basic principles of e-collar training E-Collar Touch Introduction http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=on8PjoK_Y84 Video - 4 Practical Example Of A Working Exercise – Lost Dog Recovery If my dog had gone in the wrong direction I would have known because the beeper would have told me she was heading in the wrong direction, she is training to lie down and wait for me by a touch from the e-collar whether I am in sight or not. Its possible to recover an out of sight lost dog to a maximum range of two miles, with the beeper used in the vid the max range of hearing is around ¼ mile.. Lost Dog Recovery http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VdF4N9fnvRY Related paper – Introduction To The Drives http://www.freewebs.com/dogmatters/ .