Denis Carthy

A living memorial tribute to my life loving departed best friend & companion.... .

I am posting this 'cause someone from this site asked me privatly if e-collars were on sale & legal here & could I show links to UK collar retailer sites. For those who might be interested, yes e-collars are on sale & their use is legal here,the sales figs last year were an estimated 50,000, UK population around 64 million people, below are some e-collar retailers links, hope this answer's any incorrect or otherwise speculation. UK E-Collar Retailers https://www.electric-fence.co.uk/dog/dog-training-remote-trainers.html http://store.intl.petsafe.net/en-gb/training-behaviour/static http://www.paccollars.co.uk http://www.britishdog.net/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=Remote_Dog_Training_Collars .

Ahh, it was to do with CMs' stuff starting to influence pet dog owners here in UK, they had enough of ineffective, expensive 'reward training', (which in fact is an attempt to use negative punishment as a base) and when CM, came on TV here he started to influence them as the way to go.....the same pet dog owners were potential clients or ex clients of reward trainers so Casey & the rest of them started to slag CM off to try to discredit him and put their own client base at risk........lol, instead they ended up with those vids filling about 2 3rds of page 1 of a google search for her name + the uni lawyer trying to stop them.......so thats how come those vids emerged...... .

mita mr rusty bucket Bristol uni animal behaviour dept, specificaly in the 'dog training' area and senior lecturer Dr Rachel Casey was trashed in terms of its credibilty years ago. The author of the vids below was contacted by the unis' lawyer as long ago as 2009 and told to remove the only existing vid (at that time) about Dr Casey from youtube - The response to that letter was the vid maker made more vids which are all over youtube on Dr Rachel Casey Bristol Uni search 5 years on, the vid maker has the PDFs to prove his evidence and Bristol uni's legal dept could not and cannot do anything as a result, proffesionaly 'scared for life' comes to mind. Using Bristol unis 'science' as 'evidence' is like going to court and pleading guilty of silliness Bristol Dr Casey search http://bit.ly/1mTii5N .

ALL land snakes are deaf! That said, i never realized before now venomous snakes were so common out there. .

Is the sensation the dog gets from the collar when the handler pushes the button supposed to in itself reduce an undesirable behaviour, No, thats an old obsolete method which was used with the old shock collars and here in UK they were very rare, shock collar did not start to develop towards lower levels until the last couple years of the 1980's & the reason they were lowered is that TT (Tri Tronics) was working with its trainers who created the design stages. Here in UK they were almost unkown & there was no concept even envisaged about shock collars being used as a training aid of any kind, they were never a topic of conversation amongst trainers, we remained illiterate on them. .

What you and most others have written about 'shock' is not the way 'e-collars' are used throughout the rest of the world. The problem with Oz is that there seems to be bans and restrictions either all over the place.....i don't know whats where over there, i remember they were banned in, I think, Queensland as the result of the rspca god of all things sweet & nice, named Wirth, that was way back at least a decade ago.......i have no idea at all whats happened or where in oz since then. For the record, shock collars started to fall into technological and application obsolesence from 2000 onwards as manufacturers other than TT developed instant selection. Prior to instant selection and with most units to change the level the dog had to be recalled, the contact points unscrewed and another set screwed back to raise or lower the levels. .

Snook OK, thanks for all that, i had no idea folks were talking about the whole country,I was thinking about some areas of Oz, no more than that. I once lived in s africa & i was making informed guesswork from there, venomous snakes are there & the black mamba is reputed to be most lethal of all snakes but thats mainly in Natal & maybe up around the kruger park region, the cites seem not to have any problems with them. From what you have said s africa is not comparitive at all. Must say i am surprised they are all over Oz like that. .

Firstly, here in UK we do not have such snakes so there is no significant problems with them, there is one which has some mild venom but they seem quite rare,so in short, i am illiterate on that subject. Having read the posts on here on the venomous snake subject there seems to be a small number of people who would not take the steps needed to snake proof their dogs. I can only draw one possible conclusion from those factors, which is, those who live in areas where these type snake live & breed and who do not get their dog snake proofed to increase the chances of their dogs not being bitten should not have dogs at all and should not have had a dog in the first place knowing they would put its life at risk by not proofing it or having the proofing done by for them by experts. I suppose on a wider corridor there are people the world over who own dogs but who should never have had a dog in the first place, those referred to on here who would put their dogs life in the line by not getting it proofed in areas where that was used as a life saving safety proceedure should not have dogs at all, maybe if they read this I hope they consider rehoming their dog with someone who would proof it or alternatively rehome it in snake absent place in Oz! Maybe those who let these people have puppies in the first place should make it part of a contract these people do get them proofed with a fixed penalty if they default. .

This is another except this was done in a central London restaurant, jan 2008. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxYcfmRw-Ws .

I actually miss a few comments about the varying resistance of the fur I'm not surprised you missed a "few" comments, however, one comment 'says it all'.....if the contact points are in contact with the 'fur' the collars will not and cannot activate .

AND to and have the skills to train them to lay down on the spot for a long period. How many people are we talking about, here? It may not have been intentional on your part but the way you 'worded' that could jepordise some new to dogs & make them think a down stay at distance is difficult, it might put some off what is a very easy to learn and put into practice exercise & jepordise their interest and enthusiasm to carry on. The down stay with distractions is one of the easiest canine safety exercises to teach, because it has the potential of being a life saving safety command it ranks little less important than the other 2 priority safety commands, the "leave" & "recall" equivilants, any first time pet dog owner can be taught the down stay very easily and very simply, it's highly inapropriate and detrimental for you to to try & portray it as some kind of gift from the gods to the chosen few. Video - down stay with distractions with a normal dog and a normal owner and amusing police intervention at end London UK. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh8EuTyeFH4 .

You'r clear, obvious implication is that if a lost dog ends up on a road it will get killed by truck if its wearing collar in use as a lost dog recover method and if its not wearing an e-collar and trained in that, it would just as easy get on to a road but because its not on an e-collar no harm will come to it. Out of 100 dogs which have gotten lost somehow other and are between 5 to 10 miles distance from owner, 50 have the garmin/tri tronics system and are trained to do a down stay and await recovery (stay) and the remaining 50 have nothing which do you think would be the higher % of dogs recovered with no harm done out of the 2 groups???, Im interested in your answer Willem. .

But thats nothing more than the everyday normal differences between billions of individuals on billions of individual subjects, you think its irresponsible, I don't, i show the goods some will & do use it others will not bother. Now, of relevance, are you in an Aus state which has either bans or restrictions on e-collars and in consequence bans on learning anything about them??? .

But why would it scare you? you, obviously, you would not use it & if you had a dog lost it could just as easily end up squashed on a road without a collar, the later is really beside the point, what would be a relevant point is for those who refuse to learn about collars to ALSO demonstrate how they would recover their dog if it was lost by useing the Garmin sat nav without any way of recovering the dog.........the only thing I can forsee (correct me if i am wrong) is that they would simply watch the screen as their dog lost was wandering round in 12 miles radius, probably including roads & until it was out of range or lying dead on a road, in which case they could recover the remains......i request a sensible answer to that. .