haven

Ooh, well done guys, that's fantastic

I'm sorry, but Robyn Hood? :rolleyes:

hook, line & sinker????? You'd think they would pick a more contentious topic if that was the case :rolleyes:

Thia is a very common issue that most pups get over very quickly. Avoid carrying him anywhere. Put a lightweight collar on him and when you are supervising let him drag a lightweight piece of string attached, ensuring he doesn't get tangled in anything. Progress to a lightweight lead when he is comfortably dragging that around and then pick it up but keep it tension free, just follow him around. When you progress to walks things that help are having someone walk in front of you, walk with another (friendly and confident) dog, put out a trail of treats to follow, roll a ball or toy etc. Offer lots of praise when he is walking confidently and keep a no fuss attitude of he stops, don't try to coax, it's too much like begging, use a confident voice and body language that shows it hasn't even entered your mind you might have an issue. Keep walks very short at first and in familiar surroundings, like just in the back yard or in front of the house. Do fun things like play, feed and treat when he is on lead and if you want to be really serious, restrict those things to on lead only for a few days. It should only take a few days to a week before you have the opposite problem

Yes it is Konrad Most, from Training dogs a manual. From memory, so not a correct quote; It is the sharp contrast between the disagreeable experiences and the agreeable experiences that makes it easy for the animal to see where his advantage lies, and he learns very quickly.

She must have known in her heart you were right, otherwise nothing you said would have made her change her mind. I think you did well

no I am not saying that b/c it is theoretical. It is a question asked about a behaviour I commonly see, so while I can answer the above for my own dog/s, I cannot for other dogs.. Maybe all of the above it true, depending on the dog. I would say that it seems to be more likely when the dog perceives the object as a reward. An unknown object doesn't really seem to come into play for most of the dogs I see doing this. Ohhh, sorry, I thought we were talking about a specific person/dog/issue, not a general discussion

This is much what I'm thinking, hence the food refusal question. The first thing that occurs to me is a potential scenario where the dog has in the past either been trained to leave the item with punishment or has previously (and not even necessarily during this particular exercise) attempted to self reward or snatch the item before release and has been corrected for it and is now attempting to avoid that occuring again. Perhaps that's not what is going on, but it would be my first consideration to rule out. Are you saying this behaviour occurs each time reguardless of what the titem is, whether it's a toy or food, a known or unknown object?

Any food refusal training?

True

I wasn't being picky, just answering the question as I understood it. Or are you classifying "positive only" as using positive reinforcement and negative punishment?

I choose no, I don't believe you can teach a dog to loose lead walk using "positive only" methods and I don't believe some of the methods you have included are "positive only". Or, to put it another way, I think you can teach a dog to loose lead walk using positive only methods but at some point you are going to need something other than positive reinforcement to teach that dog not to pull on the lead. ETA I chose martingale for the last section because that's what I use on my dogs, for other dogs I may prefer a different tool and I have nothing against most of those listed if used correctly.

Thanks Kelpie-i, interesting to know!

Oh don't get me wrong, I believe the behaviour to be largely based in instinct and not all about drive. I just believe the drive the dog works in can be altered, strengthened or reduced depending on how the natural instincts are shaped through training and reinforcement (or punishment as the case may be).

That's where I think training comes into it. For all I know they run after a carrot on a stick much like greyhounds chase a lure, in which case prey drive would certainly come into it. I don't think that's generally how sled dogs are trained, but I'd say you could do it that way. A dogs drives and natural instincts can lead it to exhibit certain behaviours, but you can also work a dog in different drives through training and reinforcement. It's not all about drive though IMO.

I know next to nothing about sledding but I'd say the answer would lie partly in the manner in which the dog was trained and how their natural instincts to pull were reinforced. Having said that I'm going to put myself out there and say pack drive, with the potential for prey drive depending on the above.

Only if you choose to train that way. I do and so I agree, but some people just prefer to have a seperate command for various reasons.

It's not that simple, you don't just teach a dog to sit and have it magically be able to sit stay because it hasn't been released. It takes a lot of training and particularly proofing to get it happening with distance and under distraction, which is essentially teaching the stay even if you don't use a seperate command IMO.

I don't like to teach stays too early as a general rule. Some pups can cope with it but others don't, it depends on the pup and more importantly who is doing the teaching. My main issue though is that people rush through their foundation training in their haste to teach all the bells and whistles. This can lead to sloppy training and also too much pressure on a dog that just doesn't have the capacity to cope with it. You shouldn't be teaching a pup to sit stay until your sit is absolutely 100% rock solid for example. Then I believe it's better to start by teaching the dog to wait for a release out of the command than it is about teaching them to "stay" as such if that makes sense. I can't stand to see young puppies repeatedly breaking a sit stay because their sit isn't even well established, let alone with a stay and it's even worse when they are punished for it time and time again. Way to blow your training for life ETA: I should clarify that I don't like teaching joe public to teach their dog to stay at a young age. If an experienced trainer and/or handler who reads their dog well, has good timing and understands how to apply the theory of teaching a stay without pushing their dog too hard or using too much compulsion wants to teach their pup to stay I'm fine with that. I guess most pups are capable of learning a stay well and without and adverse side effects if their handlers are capable of teaching them correctly, it's just a big if sometimes.

I'm sorry to hear that Bud isn't well, although I'm glad he is back at home. Maybe he might be able to keep down some broth? Hope he bounces back to his usual self very soon!

Valium is no good as it blocks short term memory so it isn't a long term solution for learning new behaviours. It also has a very short life in dogs as they metabolise it a lot faster than humans do so you would need to be medicating her a few times a day and ataxia is a common side effect which wouldn't help her stress levels. I'd probably try 5HTP or even prozac before I tried Clomicalm if I were you, it's cheaper and from what I've heard (and experienced) yeilds a much better result. There are also a lot of herbal remedies and dietary supplements that could help.

Why do people say 'behaviouralist' instead of 'behaviourist'? Does that even make gramatical sense?

Not that I am aware of unfortunately. It explains a lot if it is the case because I know with Loki there are so many behaviours and reactions I see in him that just can't be explained because he simply doesn't have normal responses anymore. I've consulted with some very knowledgable trainers and behaviourists and despite having lived with him for 8 years or so now he's still a mystery in so many ways and he probably always will be.

This could very well be part of the problem if she is picking up on your stress. How is she when you are not around, or when it is just her and your Dad?

I think I get where you're coming from. Loki is exactly the same. Whe he goes into shutdown all he wants to do is shrink and hide between my legs in major avoidance and the only thing that breaks this behaviour is to get him moving, then it is like he snaps out of it and starts thinking again. The important thing is to have control, it shouldn't be a headlong flight. Personally I made it a recall or heel of even just a few steps and usually parallel to what we were working with. I agree with Nekhbet also about potentially not walking her. It may be worth thinking about the kind of stress you're putting Chelsea under for what results you can realistically expect and deciding if it is really worth it. Sure you can do the hard yards and try to solve the problem, but in some cases it's easiest on the dog to manage the behaviour instead by simply avoiding the situations in which the issues occur. This may or may not be possible with Chelsea and it may or may not be what you want to do. In most cases I'd advocate training and socialisation, but in a few genuinely severe cases, where you're looking at a literal lifetime of stress and work to get and then maintain a standard that will probably never be much more than uneasy tollerance that can be avoided simply be keeping the dog at home then I'm all for a management soltuion if it suits all parties.