haven

I am not sure it is as massive as we think. It was media pick-up on a story in Northern Chine were they went on a mass killing spree of dogs (both stray and owned) a year or so ago. I think they killed something in excess of 60 odd thousand dogs?? It may have been linked to an impending world wide event being helod there or was it a plaque like rabies or something?? I'll see if I can find the media stories about it. Yes, that's right, I remember it now that you mention it.

Yes, I can absolutely understand umbrage about how the dogs are kept, killed, and how they are obtained (if they are indeed stolen from homes). It just seemed like a few people were in uproar not so much about those things but specifically because it is 'wrong' to eat dog meat. You make a great point, Staranais, about the different requirements of raising dog humanely for meat consumption to herd animals like sheep and cows. Don't China have a massive problem with stray dogs on the streets (honest question here, this is not an issue I know a lot about)? Why is this, if it is indeed true, and if it is would people have a problem with these dogs being used for human consumption if they were handled, transported and killed humanely?

What exactly is the issue here? I can understand people having issue with the way these animals are acquired, transported and killed but it seems that the majority are against it simply because they are dogs. Don't get me wrong I'd probably barf if I had to eat dog, but I find it a bit hypocritical to condemn a culture for eating one type of meat when we eat several others. What makes a sheep, cow or pig ok to eat and a dog not ok?

I don't know about in Australia, or if you specifically mean gemstones, but there is a guy in NZ that makes glass blown sculptures with ashes for memorials. I found him through the bonnie babes foundation website after a friend lost one if their twins after they were born prematurely, but I spoke to the guy via email and he was very nice, I see no reason why he wouldn't do a memorial for an animal instead of a child. FYI they don't use all of the ashes, IIRC it's only about a teaspoon or maybe a table spoon. If you are talking specifically about gemstones, I've never seen that before at all. I know how you feel about sending the ashes away, but I'd suggest you have a chat to the people who make the memorials before you decide against it. I felt a bit weird about the prospect of sending ashes to NZ but after talking to the guy, who assured me that the utmost care and respect is taken (and he seemed very genuine) I felt a lot more comfortable about the idea.

I'm sorry but I think that people have the right to respond as they wish, not as everyone else wants them too. Sorry if the best outcome for the education of the child is not at the forefront of my mind. As a dog owner, my only responsibility and concern is my dog, and making sure my dog is happy, comfortable and not placed in a position where he/she might do damage to someone. Ok Ella would probably only lick a child, but I don't want her to ever be scared by a fast approaching, badly behaved child and change to a timid dog that may snap. This is not a fair ask from a stranger who may not like or understand children. I don't have kids. I don't even know at what age they begin to walk or talk, let alone at what age they understand. We 'non-child people' don't know that if a child is old enough to ask, it's old enough to understand. I can see this scenario going horribly wrong, with the 'but WHY?' response coming out, and all this going on with the child a mere lunge away from the dog's space, or the child perhaps understanding part of the answer, but not all, because I have used words it has not yet learned. Just because a child can ask "Can I pat the doggie?" does NOT indicate that it will understand all the implications of your "No, he's scared of people he doesn't know" To me, this says "He might bite if you do" but the child won't necessarily be old enough to make the connection between 'scared' and 'bite' and I am in no position to judge the development level of your child or anyone else's. Just to be clear, I do agree that you have every right to respond as you wish in terms of how you deal with the child. The suggestion that you speak to them and not their parents is because in my experience, as a dog owner, a dog trainer and now as a parent, kids as more likely to have better manners around dogs and ask before patting (and accept the answer with good grace) than their parents are. I suggested that in future, when faced with a pushy parent, dealing with the child might be easier because they may be more likely to just accept a no answer. It's not simply about educating the child, it's about improving the future of dog ownership for everyone. I totally agree that your first and foremost concern ought to be for the safety and well being of your dog. I think it is fair enough to respond to a child that is talking to you and not his or her parents but it is very situational too. Just because you don't like children isn't a good enough reason to be rude and ignore them when they talk to you IMO. It would be incredibly rude to ignore and adult speaking to you and I don't think that is any different when it is a child. Your point about not knowing their developmental level is sound, but you don't have to explain why, you just have to say yes or no and kids learn the meaning of those two things well before they start talking. The situational aspect comes in depending on the parent, are they present, are the supervising, are they going to take your lead or are they rude and pushy like the parent described in the OP, absent altogether or just not paying attention. As you said your concern is your dog, for a child to pat my dog I'd want the parent there ready and waiting attentively to control their child just as I control my dog and take them away or back up what I say in terms of how to pat the dog and when enough is enough etc. I guess it depends on the dog too. My old girl Nova is an attention whore and an old hand at coming to training with me for demos (or just the hell or if) performing tricks for people at the park or at expos and events and being handled by children at places like expos. I would never ever allow a child to pat her unsupervised (by me) because I know that any dog can and will bite under certain circumstances and it's my job to protect her from ever feeling like she needs to do that. But my point is, she is very well trained and socialised and I'm very confident that I could tell her to sit, drop or roll over and she will happily be patted by all and sundry. If I had a younger dog with a less stable temperament that was untested then I might feel less confident about my ability to control the dog under certain circumstances. Being able to trust my dog means that if the parents don't control their child appropriately I can step in without also worrying about what my dog is doing, if I didn't have that trust in her then I would be saying no to pats a lot more than I do, because I can't control my dog and their child at the same time. If my Daughter wants to pat someone's dog she will ask, but I'm right there with her and ready to respond appropriately whether the owner says yes or no. Keep in mind though that I have the benefit of qualifications in training and behaviour and years of experience as a trainer and instructor, so well before my child gets close enough to want to pat a dog I've already assessed it's suitability and I'm watching it's body language and how well the owner can control the dog as we approach. If I see anything untoward I won't let her pat the dog and I can tell you that I've had heaps of people offer their dogs up to be patted by my Daughter when I can clearly see that the dog isn't crazy about the idea Sorry that this has blown out to be quite a ramble, I'm coming off the edge of a migraine and not able to communicate what I mean more concisely right now ETA, to be fair, I do understand that some people have very little experience with children at all as hey don't have their own, may not have any in the family and might be an only child. I had the benefit of growing up with 6 siblings, most of which are younger than me, and various foster kids so while I wouldn't call myself a child lover I generally don't feel uncomfortable with them and have no qualms about telling them to go away (politely) if warranted or telling them off if they are out of line. I don't really care what the parent thinks of that, if they were there to parent their kids then I wouldn't have to, beggars can't be choosers and all that

Absolutely, better safe than sorry! I'm glad that he is ok

I'm not on your area but I googled and Liverpool vet hospital has this on their website: Do you know what is causing the swelling? ETA This one in Nth Ryde

I should have been more specific, what I meant was that one person taking the time to make a simple explanation to one kid hopefully means that the situation improves in the future for everyone IYKWIM. I don't care for kid's that much either, but it is easy to see that you need to see a therapist about your attitude towards them, dogs are often like there owners. Sheesh, steady on! So Fuzzy isn't that keen on kids, plenty of people feel that way and there isn't anything necessarily wrong with that, it certainly doesn't mean that he/she needs therapy I wonder if your dogs are rude and over reactive?

Hugs Kirty, I'm sorry things couldn't be different for Phoebe Run free and strong, without pain, at the rainbow bridge beautiful girl!

All valid things, it was rude and you've every right to be irritated by it Of course you don't have to explain anything to anyone if you don't want to, however your combative attitude doesn't solve the problem. The OP told the adult more than once that the child couldn't pat the dog and she didn't listen. When she eventually did take the child away she possibly told it some kind of nonsense as to why it couldn't pat the dog and nobody learned anything or benefited from the encounter. My suggestion isn't about 'babysitting' someone else's kid for them, it's part of a potential solution to the problem. Instead of talking to the rude and pushy adult, in this scenario you simply tell the child "Thank you for asking me first, it's very important to ask before patting a strange dog, but my dog has a sore ear right now and might be a bit grumpy about being patted so you can't pat him right now". Problem solved, you circumvent the rude and pushy parent, the child will probably be more likely to listen than the parent and hopefully they will take some important information away and apply it to all of their future encounters with dogs. You can continue to do it your way, but it's only to your own detriment if you want to help solve the problem instead of having to deal with it over and over in the future ;)

Unfortunately there are twits on either side of the 'divide' I teach my 2.5yo Daughter excellent manners and common sense around dogs, she knows never to approach a dog tied up or eating, never to pat a dog without permission, the correct way to pat a dog etc, however we have had one incident where we were at a kids playground and some random dog (lab x so not small either) came barreling over to us and before her Dad could pick her up it ran into her full tilt and knocked her flying. Luckily she was unhurt, the owner was very apologetic and I was able to give him a recommendation to see an excellent trainer to help him train his dog not to do that in future, which was very fortunate timing since, as it turned out, his wife was pregnant and they were very concerned about their dog behaviour after the baby was born. Next time try talking to the child instead of dealing with the parent, they are the ones that are going to carrying their knowledge and attitudes into the next generation that shapes dog ownership. If Mum or Dad are being rude and pushy just ignore them, get down to the kids level and tell them simply and clearly that they cannot pat your dog for whatever reason, or should not pat them right at that moment for whatever reason, that it is very important that they ask first before patting etc etc. I can tell you that even a young child can understand and remember what you say if you keep it simple.

If Planet K9 is still run by Nicole Beasley you should enjoy her classes, especially if you are more interested in positive training. Is Command Basil Theofonedies (sp? sorry, my google is down)? If so, no I personally wouldn't train my dog there. But yeah, as other have said there are a number of quality trainers and training schools run by DOL members.

That's interesting, I've been a bit out of the dog training loop awhile now and hadn't heard that Karen Pryor was offering courses in Australia. Is it a nationally recognised qualification in this country?

Great pictures guys! We were so graced, in the morning esecially, it seemed like all the animals were super accommodating in getting up close and personal. I love love loved the Orangutans and I'm so impressed with the changes to the enclosures since I was there last! I didn't realise this was intended to be more of a photography expedition instead of just a hang out with Josie thing, I hope my errant child wasn't too much of an issue I had a chuckle when she asked Clicking Mad to pick her up and poor Sam was like "Noooo, I don't do children"

Don't know about now, but Harvey Norman had Dysons (and possibly other models) on special last weekend. We were going to go have a look but didn't get time. IIRC they were about $200-$300 off depending on the model.

Gosh, I guess they'd best stop making new courses and upgrading existing ones!

What kinds of dogs and what living conditions are they used to ie being inside or outside dogs, are the allowed on the furniture, are they crate trained etc? I cannot take any right now but I may know someone in Sydney who can.

Didn't they invite a bunch of DOLers before only to ridicule them at the auditions?

I'm a big fan of Hoss Gloss (which is not just for horses). I love the smell, it distributes and washes really well and leaved them lovely and shiny. I previously used aloveen but find this just as good and cheaper.

Yes, I had exactly this problem with my GSD Loki and it wasn't a happy ending I'm afraid. The Vet suggested we could do and MRI or some kind of brain scan and then potentially operate, but knowing the stress just the tests would cause and his age I decided against it. I had noticed a decline in his quality of life, he started to return to previously higher levels of anxiety than he had shown in a long time and became generally unhappy to be anywhere but in his crate. He was medicated but within a short time (I can't recall exactly but it was a matter of months at the most) his seizures increased and worsened until one night he just had a really bad seizure and continued to have them closer and closer together until he was virtually convulsing the whole time. He was bleeding from biting his tongue and almost took my finger off when I stupidly tried to prise his mouth open to give him an anti-convulsant (he had no control over his jaw and it closed like a vice when I stuck my hand in to try and give him the tablet. He seemed completely unaware of where he was, who I was and was totally non responsive to me. I got him into his crate but he couldn't move but to convulse every few minutes, moaning and crying. At that point I called the only after hours Vet I could find and had them come out to euthanise him. I wish I had made the decision to euthanaise him sooner, although there was no way to tell how long he could have gone with the condition. He had such a tough life though and the last thing I wanted in the world for him was to have such a difficult and distressing passing, I couldn't even comfort him because I don't think he even recognised me in the end

This was my first thought too, although I don't know if it is true. In future though, if you feel uncomfortable about how your animals are being handled don't be afraid to speak up, it's your job as an owner to keep your animals safe. Your Vet may explain why he is handling the dog the way he is and it might be reasonable to you, or you could just suggest it will be easier if you do it instead. You're the one paying for the service don't forget! It annoys me to no end the way a few vets and nurses try to manhandle your animals into doing something when if they just asked you it would be a much simpler matter, although I do realise they must be used to dealing with a lot of owners who aren't much use. I remember once seeing a vet I wouldn't normally see at the practice I frequent, but it was only to have some stitches removed so I thought it would be ok. The stitches were on her stomach (this was my Rotti bitch) and the Vet was clearly uncomfortable about handling her and was quite rude to me. She tried a number of times to simply physically force and intimidate her into lying down and rolling over and actually asked me to get out of the way at one stage. Nova was rock solid and she wasn't getting stressed or anything, but I suspect she was deliberately being difficult, so I let her go awhile and then suggested she let me deal with her. The woman rolled her eyes and huffed like I was an idiot, but I just called Nova to me and asked her to 'tummy up' and she did. Stupid Vet was still nervy about handling her even though she lay there on her back still as a statue so I ended up taking the blade of her and removing the stitches myself. I don't understand people who work with animals when they are afraid of them

Why? The dog certainly doesn't care! That he has a name is important, what that name is is purely for our benefit only.

This is specific to humans, but I thought you migth still be interested.. My nephew has recently been diagnosed with a sensory prossessing disorder, which causes him hypersensitive to touch, sounds etc which in turn affected his behaviour. Since the diagnosis my Brother and SIL have been treating him by way of a skin brushing technique which also involves massaging his joints briefly every 90 minutes for about three months if I recall correctly. Apparently that is long enough to permenantly change the pathways that process external stimuli so that he is no longer hyper sensitive. Those close to him have seen a big improvement and although I've only seen him a handful of times since they started, he does seem a lot calmer and no longer so agitated, talks more, seeks out contact, makes eye contact etc where he never used to before. I don't know the technicalities obviously, and I haven't gotten around to researching in depth, but I googled it briefly and it's pretty inetersting stuff.

I think if it came to a choice between the two I would rather have his ignorance in the gene pool to modify with education over your outright arrogant nastiness.

Correction. The dogs might adjust. I'm not one to anthropomorphise, but I know my dogs well and I can see that my Rotti is still affacted a great deal by the passing of my GSD, even though over a year has passed since his death. The dogs both belong to you, legally, go and get them.