haven

Me too! They and the Boxer are winning at the moment, although I'm giving consideration to an Aussie too. Can anyone recommend breeders of these? I've pulled a few I like off the DOL listings, but I'd love to hear any personal recommendations, even if they were not from a long term DOLer.

How fast you bond depends on a lot of things I think, like how much they need to bond with you and how dependent they are. I can't answer the poll because all of the dogs I have had as an adult have been different. I bonded quickly with my GSD, probably because he was in such a bad way physically and mentally (I didn't know if he was even going to live). With my Rotti it felt like it took longer, because she was so confident and independent and a lot more dog oriented and less people oriented than I was used to. To be honest, the relationship I have with her is that much sweeter and more valuable to me because we took our time to get to know one another and learned to appreciate our differences and little character 'flaws' instead of bonding instantly. Don't worry and don't rush it, it's likely that you have bonded (or begun to bond, more correctly) with your pup but it's just different to what you have experienced before so you don't realise it, every relationship you have is unique It also sounds like your grief over losing your other dogs is getting in the way somewhat and your expectations are also leading you astray a bit, which is probably something every owner experiences to a degree. When we have a companion for a long period of time, even though we may rationally understand that a new animal may be very different, it can take a period of time to adjust to the fact that we do not have the same relationship with the new animal as we did with the old because you remember the bond you had in the end, after years to get to know each other, not the bond you had on day one. You will have that again though, in time! EFC

I know it's cruel thing to have to say goodbye, but I'm glad you're able to take some small comfort in his easy passing. He certainly was an exceptionally beautiful boy! RIP Alex

Cattle dog is a no way for me, for entirely emotive reasons. I've met one or two well bred examples that were exceptional in terms of temperament but other than that my experience with them as a breed, using the term loosely, has not been pleasant. I'm well aware that those dogs were the result of poor breeding, lack of socialisation and no training but it's a prejudice strong enough to prevent me from ever owning one Juice, would you share or PM me the breeder? In fact, can anyone who knows of a breeder of one of the breeds I am considering that they would highly recommend I'd love to hear about them. Personal recommendation will be a big plus in choosing a breeder and if it comes down to a few breeds to choose from the breeder themselves may be the deciding factor!

Timid isn't exactly what I mean when I say soft, or not entirely. Most of the whippets I've met have been fairly solid in terms of temperament but very sensitive in other ways. I don't think there is anything bad about them, I'm just not sure they're what I'm looking for, and they're smaller again than I would like. I will check them out though! In fairness I'm no expert when it comes to sighthounds particularly, and could well have been getting my whippets and IGs confused!

Are they a proper breed yet? What about an english springer spaniel i love the brittany i met a few at the brisbane Ekka they seem like lovely dogs It looks like they are heading towards it.They may have a different name then.I like Springer and brittany .What would be the grooming requirements for them ?Thanks. i found this on Dogzonline website Brittany: The Brittany actually is quite easy to groom and care for they have a wash and wear coat. That only requires a brush once a fortnight and a bath one a month or once fortnight if needed. They are not heavy shedders so you wont't find great clumps of hair all over your carpet. Nails do require trimming once a month but apart from that they are a low maintenance breed. For the springer they did not have any information i could click on but id assume similar to the Brittany I saw that too, but then when I looked them up on other sites some said entirely the opposite PF a show would possibly be a good idea but I'm still a bit scarred from the last one I went to, which was the first and only show I've ever attended! It was a Rottweiler show a fellow trainer was handling a dog for someone else in and it was absolutely brutal I honestly could not believe the bitchiness, the underhandedness and the general conduct of a great number of people there!

I have known a few through training and I have a friend who breeds them and the ones I have met have all been lovely dogs, but they are still a bit too close to being a designer breed for my liking. I'd rather have the security and support that comes with getting a purebred dog from an ethical and registered breeder EFS

I could be wrong, but I think Cockers would be more work in terms of grooming than a regular brush, can anyone in the know comment on this? Some of the places I've browsed have them marked as higher on the scale in terms of grooming, but then I've seen conflicting information on almost every single breed I've considered in this regard! Your Dalmatian? I love them, not sure I would love the little white hairs everywhere though and like you said I think they could be slightly more energetic than I would like. I want an active dog, but you know how some breeds have that slightly more over the top, manic kind of excitability? Just slightly reigned in from that would be lovely :D WHIPPET!!! Most would be under 15kg. Larger males would make that weight and the males are great pets. Indoor access would be a must. I think whippets are lovely, but I have known quite a few and as a general rule I'd say that they don't have the kind of personality and temperament I'd prefer. No slight intended, I've not met one I didn't like, but they have all been exceptionally soft, which is great in many ways, but I'd prefer something just a little bit more rougher. A German Shepherd would fit the bill on most counts BUT you would need to be very selective in where you buy. It is imperative to buy from parents that do not display high drives and thoroughly check out the parents and their environment to make sure that the parents are not over the top. Some can be. From the right breeding you should be able to find a great companion with a stable demeanour. GSDs are great with kids when they are reared from puppy with kids. Provided you choose one from the right breeding and provided you thoroughly socialise a GSD Puppy amongst other dogs and society in general they are usually well adjusted. Looks are a deterrent and GSDs have a unique intelligence where even the most unlikely docile and placid GSD can leap into action to protect their owners when needed. GSDs are able to discern body language in people and can usually pick up bad intentions by instinct. Size of course they have. Low maintenance and grooming in the short coated varieties although they do shed at least twice a year. I've had a GSD (well, more than one as we had them when I was a child too) and known many (well bred and poorly bred). None of them have ever been low shedding! I've no problem with high drive dogs either, so long as you know how to channel and harness that drive. They remain high on my list, probably number one in my heart, but when I think from a purely practical perspective I think they are not quite right. Any dog I get is going to be a loved family member regardless of how it turns out in terms of energy level, coat maintenance etc, but while I'm still in the 'selection criteria' part of the process I have to acknowledge that a GSD would be slightly larger, more shedding than I would like. An Aussie is definitely on the list! I' rate these dogs very highly going on the specific examples I know, but I thought they might be too high on the energy level scale and the coat care scale. Whippets/Greyhounds/Tollers etc I thought might not be good with other animals, such as cats? I am perusing the Dog breeds 101 section (as well as other places) to get more info, but it is also very helpful to hear all of your experiences and opinions ETA I realise I'm speaking in generalisations about the breeds here and that individuals within every breed can be different. Being aware that certain breeds can have a general tendency towards certain behaviours is very helpful in helping me decide if really looking into getting a dog of that breed is going to be worthwhile and likely to be sucessful, or just be a fruitless endeavor IYKWIM.

Just wondering, if I can change the rules a little here, what breeds would everyone suggest if I were to tweak my preferences a little and say I'd be happy with a smaller, less imposing kind of dog that was still robust and active (as opposed to more of a lap dog type breed, I don't want to go too small!), good with children and other animals, low shedding without needing extensive grooming (happy to brush, not to clip/comb/etc for hours every week)? I've been browsing the breed pages and came across the Brittany page, which got me thinking that although I prefer larger, more imposing type dogs my Daughter and OH would probably prefer something smaller, easier, and a bit softer in terms of temperament. I think if I got a smaller dog I'd be mre inclinded to meet less resistance to the amount of time it spends indoors (which will happen regardless, but if it can do so without the complaints that would be preferable :D ) So probably about 15kg plus?

Don't you hate that! Did you see the post I made in the Cat Chat section a week or so back about medications? I was mortified Sook away, everyone needs to once in awhile!

Thanks everyone, the boxer definitely does seem like a potential option! I hadn't really considered them because they're not that high on my list in terms of looks (ie I think a well bred Boxer is beautiful, but not as aesthetically pleasing to me as some other breeds), but I'm not going to discount what could be a perfect match on looks alone! It amuses me a bit to think of anyone finding a Boxer imposing, but I have to remember that not a lot of the general public has been as lucky as I am in being able to get up close and personal with so many different dog breeds. All the Boxers I have known have been just lovely and not at all imposing :D Cosmolo, do you recall that red Boxer bitch from Doncaster and Scoresby owned by the guy with 2 kids? Do you remember her name if so?

Can anyone elaborate on grooming requirements for Curly Coated and Flatcoated Retrievers? Various websites I've looked at say minimal and one even said never to use a brush, however other sites have them marked as medium to medium-high amount of grooming

A Dobe I have considered and I have seen some truly lovely examples of the breed in my time that I wouldn't hesitate to own, but I'm a bit put off by the comments of a very well known and respected breeder of Dobes I know, whom I have heard acknowledge that they can be unstable in terms of temperament. I didn't realise a Spinone was quite that big. I suppose I'd set the cut off at about 40kg and I would prefer something smaller, but size is something I'd compromise more readily on. For the most part size can be managed with training, but it was a PITA with my GSD for example, who had some health and temperament issues (he was a rescue), if I needed to move him quickly and he resisted or was unable to cooperate because of a medical emergency etc. My Nova girl is almost perfect, but she is a big galoompha for running around and bowling over all and sundry in her not so youthful exuberance and this seems to be common in the breed in general from what I have seen. If she would just live forever and be happy as an only dog then my problem would be solved! Sadly though she is getting on in years and I don't think she she will be with us much longer Chewy, do WSS shed the same amount as the 'traditional' GSDs do?

Great Dane and larger dogs are really too big. I've had issues in the past at times when I needed to physically manipulate my dogs for various reasons and struggled because they were so big. While I prefer a larger dog, something that comes with the convenience of being able to throw it over my shoulder is appealing too I'd love another Rotti, although I have said in the past that I probably wouldn't get another one because I've seen a lot of health issues in the dogs I've known (and unlike most breeds I've known far more pedigree Rottweilers than BYB ones). It would probably be an easier decision if the breeder that would be first on my list was expecting a litter anytime soon! Actually, an Italian Spinone looks to be a great suggestion. I have briefly looked them up but they are another breed I've not come across in person, does anyone here have one? And yeah, with PF on the grooming aspect of poodles. A lot of my family members have poodles and the amount it costs them in clipping is shocking! I could keep a horse for that much! Belgians I love, but wouldn't they require a lot of grooming? Except maybe a malinios, which I would have loved once but I was thinking they would be a bit of overkill in terms of drive, energy level etc now.

Thanks everyone, lots of food for thought. I have considered a black Lab, in fact they were once very high on my list when I was getting into scent detection training. I'm thinking though that if I'm going to end up with a sizable dog that sheds I'd prefer to go for a Rottweiler or GSD over a Lab, or would you guys say that a Lab sheds significantly less? I looked briefly at a Cane Corso because a few sites I read said they were particularly good with kids, but then others say too boisterous for kids etc. The aggression thing is obviously a concern for me because I have a child. My dogs have always been a big part of the family and I would like them to be able to come places with us. I cannot have a dog that I cannot trust to be sound around other dogs because I cannot handle the dog and a toddler safely at the same time if for example we are at the park and another dog shows up. I'm specifically talking about dog breeds with a genetic tendency for aggression, as I believe that my experience with dogs is such that I ought to be able to avoid problems occurring in a pup or deal with any other form of aggression that might happen to appear. I know that if you can get a good breeder who breeds selectively for temperament etc you can be more confident about what you are going to get, but as I don't know a breeder well enough personally to be confident that they have done this, I'd rather steer clear of it all together. Almost certainly the dog would be a male, because I do have a female and because I just prefer males as a general rule. I'm not opposed to the idea of an adult dog, in fact I'd love to skip the puppy stage entirely, but I would prefer to get a dog that I know the parentage of and, most importantly of all, I must be confident it has been socialised adequately if it is no longer a pup. Gun dogs I love, in fact I'd have a hundred different breeds if I had my way, but having a child forces me to narrow the field a lot. I have briefly considered but probably rejected the idea of getting one because I don't think they're terribly imposing and because a large percentage of the ones I have known have been rather scatty. Sorry, I don't want to offend anyone by saying that and I don't think there is anything wrong with it, I just don't think it's the kind of personality that is the right fit for us. Admittedly a lot of the dogs I came into contact with when I worked professionally as a trainer were byb and puppy farm dogs, so not necessarily a good indication of the true temperament that one could expect from that particular breed, but while I do want an active dog I prefer the more sedate, calm temperament of a mastiff type dog for example. Another I had considered is a Giant Schnauzer, but that is purely from looking at breed info pages because I've not had the pleasure of meeting a real one in the flesh, only lots of schnauzerdoodles. It seems like the grooming requirements might be a bit much though, even if they are good with kids, does anyone know? I've no problem with a high drive dog, but it is unlikely that I will find the time for training on the same kind of scale that I used to anytime soon.

Firstly, is there a special place for threads on this topic? I know they are relatively common and some people get a bit shirty about them clogging up general, but I wasn't sure where else to put it as I can't start a new thread in the breed sub forums. If there is somewhere this is supposed to be please feel free to report it to be moved, or let me know so I can do so I'm looking into getting another dog but I'm undecided as to what breed will best suit my lifestyle and requirements. I have a Rottweiler bitch, who currently resides at my Mum's house with her dogs as she has been miserable alone since my GSD died. I haven't been in the right circumstances to bring a second dog into the family since then, however I am about to move permanently and Nova will be coming home with us as soon as I can get her a companion (she will only fret again if I bring her home to be an only dog). This isn't the only reason I want to get another dog, but it makes the situation more pressing for me because I've missed her awfully I won't be impulse buying just because I want a dog sooner rather than later, if necessary Nova can stay with my Mum or I can temporarily foster a dog as a companion for her, but if I can find the right dog in the mean time then that would be ideal. I would like a dog that is ok with other dogs and has no known genetic tendency for dog aggression. I need a dog that is good with children as I have a 2.5 year old Daughter (who has been raised with various animals and is very well behaved with them, but would never be left unsupervised regardless). I'd prefer a medium sized dog, ideally not so large that I couldn't lift them when required, and I prefer breeds that have a more imposing look or reputation because I feel safer at home and out walking and I've found these types of dogs, as a general rule, match me best in terms of personality and lifestyle. I'd like a robust dog, active dog without that crazy OTT kind of energy and I would be training them to a high standard for practical reasons and because I just enjoy training. I'd like a low shedding and low coat care breed if possible. If I had to place my list in order of priority it would probably read: Sound temperament, good with children (under supervision) No tendency or predisposition for dog aggression Looks (ie as a deterrent) Size Low shedding/grooming Trainability isn't a huge issue because I'm not a first time owner or trainer and I could work with a breed generally considered to be less trainable. On my list were Rottweiler, GSD, Bull Terrier, Stafford etc but they all seem to be ruled out by one or more of the preferences above. I've worked with heaps of different dog breeds as a trainer and I just can't think of one that would be a perfect fit. Of course if need be I will compromise, but if anyone can suggest a breed so I don't have to, that would be super! ETA said dog would be an inside and outside dog, although mostly restricted to the tiled areas of the house (all of the main living areas). TIA

I guess If you keep telling yourself this It seems to make It more acceptable!, I don't think this Is a good argument for the In favor group So what is your alternative for the dogs that have no homes, do we drop them all at your place? Are one of this that think this is cruel in any way? I keep asking people who claim it causes suffering but none of them can answer me about the suffering part. I'll spell it out again. If a dog is going to be PTS anyway then I cannot see what is wrong with using the body. They are not being PTS especially for the vets. Of course I hate the idea that they have no homes in the first place, but since they are being PTS then make the best of it. What is your alternative to the thousands of dogs being PTS daily? If you want to blame someone then dish it out to the owners who put the dogs in there in the first place. I do not have an answer to the alternative of what happens to dogs with no homes, but that doesn't mean I have to like the alternative that Is being used now The fact that Is kept being mentioned that "They were going to die anyway" just doesn't sit right with me. Oh and off course I do blame the owners that put them there In the first place, but It really isn't much consolation to those poor dogs now Is It and that be whatever their fate Is once they're In the pound All I can say Is I look forward to new and better methods that will no doubt come In time.... As do we all! Exactly

Yes, I agree with this. I also wonder what would happen legally if something went wrong, would the Vet still accept liability if the animal died as a result of the student's lack of experience or would the owners just be expected to accept the fact that they took a risk on a lower standard of care because that is all they could afford and their animal died as a result? I find this more unethical in some mays than operating on dogs to be euthanised to be honest.

'shelter' animals , and spey/castration clinics, apparently. Thanks Perse, I will have a look at the book if/when I can get it to load. Was this experience that the other students were privy too and just didn't utilise, or was it only made available to these students?

Alternative surgical students? Is that just a fancy way of saying they didn't participate in surgeries on live animals that are then euthanised such as is debated in this topic? How did they get five times more experience, did they have access to resources their peers did not? Genuinely curious, I'm not a Vet student or anything like that so it isn't something I know a lot about so I'm not sure of what this actually means

I cant think of a single poster who's said that. Sorry, I haven't got time tonight to go back and find the references in the topic, but I understand a few posters feel it is perfectly ok to perform procedures on an animal prior to it's death as it is scheduled to die anyway. Yes, I'm one of them. That doesn't mean I don't care that they die or care how they are treated. It also doesn't mean that I think they should be made freely available in any numbers for vet students to learn on. But how its callous to see as preferable that an animal's death might educate future vets rather than be just to be rid of it at all beats me. Do people honestly think its better just to euth them and dispose of the bodies? There's a hell of a difference between thinking something's "perfectly OK" and thinking that a death with some purpose is better than one with no purpose at all. Exactly. Please be aware too that this is the internet, you cannot always understand people's tone in the written word and some people are more rational than emotional when discussing isues like this and vice versa. Don't make the mistake of thinking that someone is a heartless bitch just because they agree with something you don't and can state why without using overly emotive language, I can tell you as a long term member of this forum that isn't at all the case. Currently in this country we have far too many dogs and nowhere near enough homes for them all and as a result extremely large numbers of them die every year. They can either; a) be euthanised and disposed of or b) some of the dogs can be anaesthetised and made available for Vet students to get valuable experience, which benefits everyone in the future as our Vets are more experienced. Then they can euthanised and disposed of. NOBODY is thrilled about the fact that these dogs die at all, but so long as they do this practice is akin to the lesser of two evils I think, at least something good can be made from an awful situation. It's hasn't got anything at all to do with not caring about the dogs because they are going to die anyway, the animals are well cared for and extremely strict guidelines are adhered to in order to ensure that the animals are not mistreated in any way and do not feel any pain. I admit I have a hard time understanding why anyone would choose option a over option b just as others may struggle to understand why I see option b as preferable, but either way the choice isn't as black and white as picking between a good option and a bad one. It isn't at all correct or appropriate to say that anyone who prefers option b is 'perfectly ok' with the dogs dying anymore than it is correct or appropriate to say that the people who choose option a are.

Why? In all honesty, not being nasty, I think what you said is a good example of exactly why. A large percentage of the general public are focussed on the wrong issues and time and resources go into political point scoring and stopping practices like this instead of practices like that.

As someone who has seen an animal die because a Vet froze when the surgery he was performing went awry I support this practice if it is done humanely. It's certainly sad but operating on a live animal would have to be entirely different from operating on a cadaver in so many ways. The saddest part of it for me is that I bet, for some of these animals, the experience they have with these students is probably the most kindness and compassion they have ever been shown in their lives I'm all for the practice of euthanising dog to stop when the surplus of dogs does, but if until then it is the only practical solution then at least some good can come from it!

If you can't find one maybe try sending Isiss a PM, if she doesn't have a Melbourne Storm Jacket for her dogs then they don't exist!

Dogs are NOT livestock. Their intelligence, trainability and thousands of years of development and use as workmates and companion animals gives them a unique position in relation to humankind. I am totally against the way they treat dogs, but just because a pig for example is bred as livestock doesn't make it worth any more or less than a dog. Pigs are very intelligent, clean (yes clean) and sensitive creatures. What about the issue of Sow Stalls here in Australia, where the female pig is crammed in a stall, so small that they cant turn around, let alone move at all! http://www.savebabe.com/ Perhaps we should look at our own practices first. And yes, I am vegetarian. I apologise Merijigs, perhaps you posted at the same time as I did because I didn't see your reply until it was quoted. But basically I agree with Linda, I don't see why dogs shouldn't be eaten when other cultures eat just about anything, including deer, horse, crocodile, turtle, frogs etc. Dogs are not the only animal of intelligence that are eaten by some people, or the only animal used and trained by some people as companions. Isn't there a religion or culture that revere cows? Imagine the uproar if they tried to prevent us, in another country, from eating beef! As distasteful as I find it personally, we have no right to take issue with other countries or cultures eating dogs IMO, except with the manner in which those animals get onto their plate. ETA actually, it occurs to me that there are other issues to consider, for example overfishing and the potential extinction of some species, but I hope you understand that my point is, if all of these kinds of issues can be handled morally then I don't see why one animal ought to be given status over another in terms of being eaten.