haven

Good thinking 99

The Cert III or relevant experience is a requirement for the Canine behaviour specialist course. I expect that the Delta certificate would be acceptable, but best to check with Julija or Catherine at the NDTF on 1300 664 466. You would also need to check when the next course commences, as I know they are extremely busy at the moment with the Cert III, as they are now also running it for international students and by correspondance.

You can colour it any way you want if it makes you feel better, but if you say NO to your dog when he/she is doing something and it makes that behaviour occur with less frequency and/or intensity, it is defined as punishment. The term punishment does not equate to cruelty or doing a dog harm, it is a sceintific term that means, by definition, providing a consequence that makes a behaviour occur with less frequency and/or intensity, positive punishment meaning you add something (like saying NO etc) and negative punishment meaning you take something away (withold and expected reinforcer etc).

No I don't think it is stupid at all, I think it could be very significant!

Forgot to reply to this bit I guess the only thing Im worried about here is that she still seems terrified and she will do this even to someone who has been in the house 15 minutes before I dont want people to be afraid of her and she never used to be like this. (Even when we have had people in our front yard at our old house our other dog Bomber would always be the one to let us know - and Kirra would sleep through the whole thing!) Jen The reason I ask is because you can use counter conditioning to get her to look forward to having people come into the yard, eg you might have people thorw food over the fence and come into the yard and offer her food etc. It isn't something I would do personally, because I don't want my dogs to be happy to allow strangers into the yard or eat food thrown over the fence etc. I would just go with having your friends call out to her. My dogs bark when people come to the house for various reasons and I have encouraged it because it suits my lifestyle and what I want from my dogs. When someone comes over they don't come into the house until they have been greeted OUTSIDE the door by my dogs, after which they are fine. You might find that greeting people at the door helps your girl also.

There are a few people here who have done the course that I am aware of, or you can talk to any instructor at ADT, as the certificate III in dog training and behaviour is a requirement to be employed by ADT. Having done it myself, I highly recommend it to ANYONE even if you have no wish to make dog training your profession. I had worked with animals before and had the basic concepts of psychology from school, but the amount I learned was phenomenal and has been invaluable in enabling me to help my own dog Loki with his issues. Definately essential information to anyone who has a dog! I won't kid you it can be a lot of work. You get out what you put in and if you are anything like me it will pretty much take up your whole life outside of normal working hours for the seven months of the course But trust me when I say you will never be sorry you did it and you will never look back. You will leave with a whole new perspective and much of it is applicable in everyday life, to other animals and humans too, not just dogs. I describe it to potential students as being in a foregin country. You can take a book and try to muddle through everyday life by flicking through and attempting poor translations to communicate what you want and to understand what others say, or you can become fluent in that language and throw away the book. Completing the course and since then the Canine behaviour specialist certificate, are two things in my life of which I am the most proud.

So define "correction" Punishment = adding something that makes a behaviour less likely to occur in frequency and/or intensity. If your dog is doing something and you say no and it makes him stop, it is a punishment even if you don't want to see it that way. ETA: The difference is dictated by the dog. My Rotti doesn't give a rats about a physical correction, it doesn't change her behaviour and therefore it isn't punishment. If I say NO to her (obviously depending on the tone of voice I use) she is beside herself. For her a verbal correction is far more punishing than a physical one.

I thought the issue with roo meat was the posibility of hydatids? Not an issue for me, for some reason even the bottomless pit won't touch it.

Poor thing sounds like she had a bit of a scare when your house was broken into :p I figure you don't need my recommendation on using bach flower remedies What I'd suggest is go through a program of desensitisation and counter-conditioning. Start her at a distance from someone wearing the clothing you describe (at a point where she is aware, but not reactive) and reward her, play with her, do some training, feeding etc. Gradually, as she becomes more confident, relaxed and is not reactive, take small steps closer. You would do this in more than one session, so don't try to move too fast. You might even start wearing glasses, hoods etc around the house if she is not too reactive. EG if you start putting on a pair of sunnies right before giving her dinner she will come to see them as a good thing because you wearing the sunglasses predicts the fact that she is about to get fed. As to her barking at people in your backyard, are you sure that is something you actually want to stop?

Your strategy would only work if the only reinforcement the dog is getting is from you. As the dog is clearly getting reinforcement from the chickens and has actually caught and killed one, this just won't cut it at this stage IMO.

The idea is for the dog to see the chicken itself as aversive. It may work but it also may not. Think about how you feel when you have just eaten the biggest meal of your life and someone holds a fresh apple pie/ roast chicken/whatever under you nose. Suddenly what was previously appetetive to you is now aversive. This is a basic example, obviously there are all kinds of rights, worngs and posibilities to discuss about why it may or may not work, but I'd be writing a novel and I just don't have the time or the inclination. Suffice it to say it is not something I would recommend for a number of reasons. Are you saying that you have never said 'NO' to your dog when he/she was doing something wrong, never witheld a food treat or ignored an undesirable behaviour? All are methods of punishment.

Thats is wonderful Allerzeit :p

Hell yes I would ask for a test!

Cactus, I believe the distinction they are trying to make is between punishment as perceived by the dog as coming from the handler and that which occurs without being associated with the handler. EG K9 mentioned hiding water balloons in washing, providing a punisher when the dog trys to pull the washing off the line. Very diferent from the dogs perspective from receiving a verbal (NO) or physical (leash correction) punisher from the handler for the same behaviour.

Horses for courses, but I can tell you from experience that not putting washing out on the line when the dog is around is not an acceptable option for most people and they usually aren't keen on relocating or fencing the washing line either. The OP would never have to worry if they decided not to keep chickens, but if that is not a desirable option a training alternative is necessary.

Showdog I realise you are obviously upset by this incident, but I think you are being a bit harsh. I don't get the impression that the OP is 'jumping up and down like it was unexpected' and think that to suggest that the dog now hates it's owner is excessive. It is likely that the method of tying the chicken around the dogs neck was suggested by someone. It was and probably still is a popular method of dealing with stock killing in some areas. It is called aversion training and it actually can work sometimes, but Muttley, there are much better ways of using aversion training than the method you described. The suggestion made of seeing a qualified trainer to help you with this issue is an excellent one. As also mentioned, a secure area for the chickens is a must. No matter how well socialised your dog and how good she may be around the chickens, a dogs prey drive is permenantly recallable under the right circumstances.

There's always a risk unfortunately. My advice would be that if you can't 100% trust your vet's advice, get a new one. My Rotti is also recovering from cruciate surgery and has recently been going more backwards than forwards. My Vet suggested that the cranial wedge surgery was a consideration, if I were really worried about her progress. I elected not to, simply because she has had a litter and two surgeries in less than 12 months and I think thats enough to put her body through for the time being. I hope it works out for you, whatever you decide.

No doubt Ollie dog will have a wonderful christmas and you will be the one pining Glad to hear that he is going well ;)

Yes Murray is great too, certainly a cut above most vets I've had the misfortune to come across! I just find that Adrian is a little more open to things that are outside the square :rolleyes:

Alright, but the next time I call they better not tell me his is booked till 2007 If you are lucky enough to live around the outer eastern suburbs of Melbourne and you want to see the greatest Vet ever, call Kilsyth Vet Clinic and make an appt to see Adrian :D

Just to point out also, to anyone not familiar with ADT, $610 is not the standard price for everyone, it is what you pay if you want the highest level of obedience we offer, plus the socialisation and confidence course and membership costs. The actual cost to join ADT is $50 lifetime membership. You then pay for a standard of training, for example if you just want pupy training you can go to puppy classes until your dog is 18 weeks of age for $90.00. If you were to join with an 8 weeks old pup, with access to 7 (soon to be 8) clubs in Victoria, that $90 could get you as many as 50 (yep 5-0) puppy classes. From there you can go through basic ($190), control ($240) or advanced ($370). The cost of the socialisation and confidence course, where we cover everything and anything posible and include agility, food refusal, command refusal and dog to dog work is $190. So you don't have to join and pay $610 unless you want to do advanced level obedience and the socialisation and confidence course. We train your dog to your requirements

Hedds, he's not THE rotti vet you are thinking, but you're very very close I'm not sure I want to say who it is, I dont want him to be booked out everytime I call

I have found the best Vet in the whole wide world! I have been quite a few times now and my visit today is a typical example of why I love my Vet: I took both my dogs and spent a whole HOUR in with the vet, who not only actually LISTENED to everything I said with interest, but treated my opinions and conlusions with the utmost respect with no hint of the rolled eyes and the pftt what would you know look that most Vets have. All of my questions (and there were many) were answered with thoughtful consideration, there was no feeling of being rushed and pushed out the door, although they were and always are a clearly busy practice. As he examined my dogs, he explained everything that he was doing, why, how, what his exam told him and what conclusions he made, all in plain english. He took plenty of time to go over explanations and examples of possible treatment options and was honest in discussing with me the pros and cons of each. Was exceptionally good at handling my dogs, again not rushed at all, took all the time needed for them to come to him, that they would not feel threatened or overly stressed (which is so important particularly for Loki). Treated me like I was an equal, instead of patronising me like many Vets have in the past. For the hour long consultation and the medications I got for each of my dogs, it cost me under $100.00 :D

Cazbear, you specified that he is good with adult dogs but mentioned that he has had issues with two different puppies. What is he like in general with younger dogs? Are these two the only puppies he has had an issue with amongst the hundreds he has met, or has he not been around any other puppies? It is unusual for a dog to really try to harm a puppy, although not unusual for there to be a period of time where an adult dog is not happy with a new puppy in the household. It may be that all it takes is a period of adjustment or we could be looking at some more wide reaching implications. For example, when Nova had her puppy Wes, my old cocker bitch wouldnt have anything to do with him for about two months. After that they were the best of friends. Another example is a Border Collie I know that was attacked and seriously injured by a small dog and ever since then is aggressive to small dogs, including puppies until they get to e certain size. Both examples require different treatment. Phatdex is absolutely correct about the implications of this behaviour on your puppy. She is in her critical period and if continuously attacked or intimidated by your older dog, she could grow to have some fear issues with dogs. Learning during the critical period is permenant, whatever damage done cannot be undone, so you need to be very careful about what she is exposed to. I'd be wary of muzzling your older dog all the time too. In addition to the point PF made, your older dog may easily make the association of wearing the muzzle, which is aversive, with the presence of your puppy. He may also behave with the muzzle on, but when you take it off its a whole new ball game.....

I would definately suggest a supplementation program to help boost Ollie's immune system after the surgery and during the chemo as while destroying the cancer it really knocks down the immune system also. Check with your Vet to make sure that it won't interfere with the chemo tho. Don't be afraid, I'm sure all will be well