haven

The point is I don't believe any decent club forces you to use a correction chain and yell at your dog, neither do I believe in one that forces you to use food rewards, refuses to allow you to use even a verbal punisher like "no" if you so choose etc. I especially can't stand the clubs that brag about being "positive only" and then put all kinds of restrictions on what dogs they accept, like dogs must be under a certain age without any behavioural issues etc. A good club will accept all dogs and be willing and able to accomodate all styles of training, whether owners want to use food/toys/corrections/drive or a combination of these things and more. No club should force something that neither you nor your dog are comfortable with.

Block access to the stairs with a baby gate or similar, she is too young to be going up and down stairs all the time anyway. Search this and the training forum for mouthing/biting/chewing, it has been covered heaps and you will find some excellent suggestions. Search the forum and net for NILIF and other leadership programs and start putting the strategies in place it will help with botht the mouthing and the protest barking, many other potential problems and help to enrich your relationship with your dog. ETA: Baci is a cute name, doesn't it mean kiss in some other language? Italian maybe?

One thing that you need to understand is that there is no such thing as "positive only" training. A good club should be able and prepared to adapt accordingly to the wants and needs of each individual dog and owner

Lol if I did that you might never see me again

Er...okay, but the list of things you provided are usually done out of necessity and not because people place human morals and values on their dogs. And besides, dogs are groomed in the wild, they do have toys, eat a BARF diet and obviously don't get vaccinations and beds becasue they are um wild dogs.

I agree, I find it abhorrent when I hear the old "training advice" from people who think they know what they are talking about, like smack your puppy over the nose with a rolled up newspaper, rub their nose in it if they toilet in the house, punish your dog after the fact for digging/chewing etc because they look guilty when you come home and 'know they did something wrong' To the OP if you are still around, as someone said earlier in the thread the best way to deal with puppies is to teach them appropriate behaviours and outlets for their natural tendancies (to chew, dig etc) and praise for it, instead of waiting until they do something that you don't like and punishing them for it. Be aware that to the puppy their behaviour is never 'wrong' or 'bad', they are just exploring their surroundings. If you don't want them exploring your shoes, electrical cords etc keep them out of your dogs reach. Smacking your dogs all the time for every little transgression will certainly not be bond building! Agree with what Puggles said about some dogs being naturally more timid than other which may or may not be the case here. Often I find that people confuse their dogs natural submissive behaviours with fear which again may or may not be the case here. I recommend you take your dogs to a reputable training club. Training with your dog is great for bond building, fun for both of you and someone who is qualified and experienced can see exactly the behaviours you are talking about and help you learn more about how to read and understand your dog, how to deal with behaviours you don't want and how to make the most of your relationship. Oh and as an added bonus (as if the above benefits are not enough) you end up with a well trained dog

That's good but just so that we are clear, I never said anyone did or should smack their dogs. What gets me is when people make lists of what is acceptable and not acceptable in terms of punishment based on human morals and values instead of basing it on each individual dog. People who come regularly to this section of the forum will know this is a real pet hate of mine. My girl couldn't care less if I smacked her, nor does she care about positive punishment from a training device like a correction chain and yet she finds being ignored or removed from the 'pack' highly aversive. So which is crueller/kinder/more appropriate? In the wild positive punishment is the norm and negative punishment in the form of exclusion is certain death. Domestic dogs use a great deal of positive punishment and negative reinforcement and yet many humans declare their use in training 'BAD' without really understanding or considering the principles behind them or their uses. Like I said, I'm yet to see one dog squirt another with a spray bottle, I've also never seen one dog offer another a treat or toy to reward good behaviour. Don't think for a second that I'm saying to beat the crap out of your dogs and not use reward based training because that is NOT what I am about. It's just the anthrapamorphisim that I can't stand and the blanket ban on using one style of training or form of punishment without consideration for each individual dog.

Oh really? What do you do when your dog does something you don't want it to or ignores a known command then?

Quoting your post LM, but posting in general and not to you exclusively: While i don't condone smacking a puppy as the best way to deal with bad behaviour, what makes people think that a smack is more aversive to a dog and in some way crueller than a strong 'NO' or a squirt with a spray bottle? Just as the reward you use should be determined by the dog so too should the punisher you use. Not all dogs are alike, some dogs don't give a rats about a smack but are terrified by a raised voice. Some don't care about being told off, but hate being ignored etc etc. And if we are talking about the pups perspective, I've seen dogs threaten and punish eachother by staring, growling, body slamming and even throwing the other to the ground and standing over them with mouth over throat........but I've never seen one dog squirt another with a spray bottle.

I do and I've never had any problems, but I watch them like a hawk at all times just in case. I also fill ice cream containers with stock cubes mixed with water to freeze. Someone provided a link in the general forum (I think in the Rotty owners thread) to a site (vetshed??) that has a special dog toy that you can refridgerate or freeze repeatedly for them to chew on, apparently filled with non toxic stuff. Don't know just how chewable it would be before it was destroyed, but it sounds like a great idea.

Yep totally normal for baby puppies

I agree, i'ts just something to consider. I'd be horrified to hear someone refer to their dog as "it" but having had the benefit of getting to know some international students, it has made me more aware some differences in speech that can occur, such as cultural ones. Not to say that is/is not the case in this specific topic. ETA: I paid $600 for my first dog's obedience club membership and I'd do it again in a heartbeat considering what I got: lifetime training at the highest level, qualified and experienced trainers, free access to a behaviourist, socialisation classes as well as obedience and the list of benefits goes on. Price should not be the major factor when considering your obedience club, although I realise some people are on a tighter budget than others. Look for quality first

While I understand that some people find it distasteful, please try to keep in mind that not everyone uses nouns, verbs, adjectives etc and structures sentences in the same manner. When a person refers to their dog as "it" there may be some difficulty in translation (if english is not the OP's first language), difference in level of education etc and doesn't IMO necessarly mean that the OP considers their dog with disdain, or in fact with any less love and consideration than we do. I try to take the post as a whole, a recent troll springs to mind when asking how to clip "it's" nails, where the rest of the post indicated (to me at least) through tone that "it" was exactly what the OP considered the dog to be, however that may not be the case in this situation and others similar Edited to add quote, but just to clarify my intention was not to single yours out sas, just address an issue that a number of people have taken lately and not just in this thread.

My dogs name is Loki too and so is one of my Rotti's litter brothers

Be aware that any hormone driven behaviours also become learned as the dog exhibits them and is reinforced. If your dog starts showing dog aggression that is motivated by hormones having him desexed will not alter the learned component of the behaviour. Phatdex is quite right, aggression can show itself between the ages of around 15-24 months especially when it is hormone related

Chalk me up as an avid supporter of DAP K9. I used it with smashing success on Loki (my GSD) and have recommended it to a number of people at training who have all had great results.

I use different techniques based on each dog and my assessment of why they are doing it, but for an older dog who should know better, I often let them mouth me while I play the "let's see how much of my hand you actually want in your mouth" game. They stop very quickly

after I have put this sentece Now how on earth would anyone straight away assume Im a physio??? It so just happends that I am qualified as a physio but I also have a feeling that this person has been having this discussion with us a while ago under a different login. A thread about NZ Police springs to my mind. Yes the personal attacks that were posted by SB last night and have since be removed definately smacked of 'prior knowledge' of a number of the posters here.

Yours is a proper answer BP and a good one, just not the only one

Also there is no need to wait until the problem occurs to deal with it. The mouthing is normal puppy behaviour but things such as barking at you when disciplined are a potential concern. All dogs benefit from a formal leadership program at it will help you be pro active in dealing with these kinds of problems.

Not always, excitement urination is not uncommon in young dogs and is generally comething they grow out of as they get older. Either way it is important that you do not punish your pup for this, just remove him from the area and clean it up. If it is excitement, try to avoid the circumstances and getting him too excited at those times.

that's great to hear Australdi, just curious about where this statement made by you fits in with that philosophy:

And why damn an excellent tool for many because a single persons experience with one that was malfunctioning, used on one dog only was not to their satisfaction? because that would be silly edited for schpellink

So one experience with a malfunctioning citronella collar leads you to believe that all ecollars are bad......mkay Research and experience for the win

I'm so sorry to hear about your dog openarms My cat is on regular medication because she has regular seizures that are just awful to watch, but the Vet assures me that chances are she has no pain during the fit and has no recollection afterwards. I don't know if this is true but it helps me feel a bit better.