haven

Unit 3 in a nutshell is aimed at the trainer as an individual, while elective 1 is for trainers who want to be instructors as well. Basically it's the difference between training an individual dog and teaching a class :D

This post should be a sticky IMO

When did it turn into a slanging match and people getting narky? Maybe I need to read back cos I do't remember that Personally I use the term correction in the same manner as I would the term punisher or punishment i.e. something that makes a behaviour occur less frequently or with less intensity. A correction/punisher is defined by the affect it has on the dogs behaviour, it could be a verbal 'no', it could be sin binning the dog, with holding a treat, a smack etc etc. What one dog views as a correction another may not. My pet hate is people who use negative punishment e.g. witholding food, attention etc and look down on those that use positive punishment e.g. verbal 'no', correction chain etc as thought there method is better and more 'humane' or kinder on the dog. For humans to make the assumption that a dog would find one kinder than the other is the height of arrogance and misunderstanding of canine psychology IMO. Disclaimer: Rusky, none of the above is directed specifically at you, nor is it aimed at anyone else here.

I wonder how the people who believe in training dogs using absolutely no aversives feel about the use of aversives in everyday living, is it wrong to give fines for speeding, suspensions at school for bullying, incarceration for assault etc etc. Would the 'positive only' technique result in a better society, with less crime, more peace love and mung beans? Honest musing here, no sarcasm etc intended. I'm sure someone will give the old "dogs are not humans" and that is true, but I don't see the issue with giving an aversive in a situation when the dog is aware of what is required and what behaviours will result in reinforcement and punishment. If you tell a trained dog to sit and he is aware that compliance will result in a food treat and non compliance will result in something aversive, what is wrong with giving the punisher as a consequence of the dog's own choice?

You don't need dog friendly accommodation, your dogs can be boarded at the training facility free of charge

Agree, I don't believe it's training the recall that requires the use of aversives, it's changing the dog's value of certain items. My GSD has a reliable recall and I didn't have to apply an eversives to achieve it, however he values little else aside from me so there is rarely a conflict between chasing/recalling for him. It all depends on the dog, not the exersise being taught IMO. You can't say "you can't teach a reliable recall without using aversives" but you can say "you probably can't teach that dog to recall reliably without using aversives". (edited that last because I don't like to talk absolutes) :D Personally I don't like to use aversives in recall training because I think it's completely counter productive, if a dog is too distracted to recall then it's the specific stimulus causing the distraction you need to work on more than the recall itself. I also agree that the recall and other commands become a reflex action when trained well, in that the dog obeys even under high distraction because they are so conditioned to pair that action with that command.

In Canterbury you're probably closer to Cosmolo than me (although don't quote me, I'm severely geographically challenged ), I'm outern eastern. How long this issue take you to overcome is like the rhetoric how long is a piece of string, but as Kelpie-i said it is far easier to change the way a puppy feels about a certain situation/stimulus than it is to change an adult's which is why you are better off to start right away.

Yep, I agree with both of you. Actually that's why I asked as to the OP's whereabouts, if they are close to me I'd be happy for them to meet Princess Novasmooch before braving group training.

Where abouts in the Eastern Suburbs?

I see what you guys are saying, but I also think it is important to have the blanket rule so that people have some idea of whether training on that day will be cancelled before they travel a possibly long distance only to find out it's been called off.

Ok, so the issue is the length of time that you have to wait for a decision to be made? Sorry if I'm being slow

Well done Rachelle, it's always great to hear a happy ending as a result of an owner's dedication to their dog!

This is not specifically in regard to the trial, but I can't believe the amount of people who brought their dogs to training yesterday! At 10.15am I almost passed out while taking an obedience class and had to have another instructor take over for half the class. If I felt that way I hate to imagine how the poor dogs were coping! I'm interested to know what your ideas on how better to implement the heat cancellation policy Staffy13.

No, I would be ignoring the growling and not putting her back down until at least 10 seconds (minimum) after she stopped. If she growls because she doesn't want to be picked up and you put her back down then you reinforce her growling. Definately ensure that you are picking her up correctly and do it slowly so she feels safe, make sure you are not causing her any pain or discomfort. I'd practice picking her up and giving her a treat or something she likes when she doesn't growl. For at least a few days, I wouldn't give her treats at any other time. ETA: also ensure that you don't pick her up to do something she doesn't like, e.g. clip her nails, brush her etc. Also ETA: I don't believe that picking a dog up gives them reason to believe they are higher in pack status, except in situations when you are responding to a demand to be picked up.

I absoultely, definately would not use a spray bottle or any other aversive in the situation you describe, you are quite correct about the potential to further your dogs negative association by doing so. I would be getting this kid out to a training school that runs a formal socialisation program run by qualified and experienced instructors that can help you overcome this issue. This is something that needs to happen now, the longer you wait the more likely it is that your pups behaviour will become a lifelong issue. I wouldn't wait another day!

Great minds Rusky :D Do I recall correctly that you are interstate? I'm thinking Perth or QLD but I have been known to be delusional so I could be wrong :D Myzska, I get what you mean but I just see it a little differently. I think the dog is always learning and often they learn more from us (usually things we don't want them to) when we don't consider that we are training. In a sense, you could say I always have my 'training hat' on. I see what you are saying, but to me it's just you say tom-ay-to and I say tom-ah-to. Damn, I'm going to have that bloody song in my head all day now ;)

I'm the other way around, I consider everyday life to be part of training I selected every day, because I believe training is always taking place. My guys only get to a formal training session (as in group class at a club) once in a blue moon, but not a day goes by they don't receive some training. I selected pet dog, no competition goals but I also do rehab stuff with Loki in addition to training. Wanted to pick 'wroking dog' just cos it's funny ;)

Busted Lillydale Lake is fine, although I'd steer clear of the off leash area depending on how many vaccs pups have had and how many dogs are around. Would be cool for the pups to visit the remote control car track and skate bowl beind the park too. LP can you not take puppy to CBC? I'd offer to sit her for the night but Christmas Eve I'll be over at my Dads place for dinner. I got a bit carried away with my available dates, the 17th is the ADT christmas party so I will probably be working that day, but could do something late arvo. Personally I think a regular play date would be good, one or two nights a week if people can make it. You can't have too much puppy socialisation!

If the guide/show/place method doesn't teach a dog anything, I'm curious as to how Loki learned to bow in just one repetition. Come to think of it, I don't know how he learned anything seeing as that is the primary method I used to train him and he has passed out of advanced and knows about 25 tricks

I checked it out last Tuesday and there weren't any up yet, but there may be some now that Dec has ticked over. It has been so packed for the last few years traffic has been gridlocked so I suggest parking and walking if you're going closer to the 25th. I used to date a guy that lived on the street and it once took me half an hour from one end of the street to park my car in the driveway

I'd prefer close, so outer eastern is better for me (not that you really need me, because I don't have a puppy) Perhaps a few outings, a train ride to the beach, a visit to an airport, farm, fire station etc. Lots of events on with Christmas coming. Lakeview dve in Lillydale is huge this time of year for christmas lights, a walk down the street on a few different evenings and a trip to Carols by Candlelight? After this weekend I'm free Sat and Sun 16/17 and 23/24 and if it is close to home, any evening (after 5pm) except Thursdays.

My dogs like chewing on old bones too. I think as long as the bones are not so old that they are getting splintery it should be fine. Weight baring bones that cannot be completely consumed should be removed after the flesh and cartellige (sp?) has been eaten, gnawing on the bone can result in damage to the teeth. I never feed any bones split down the middle for the exact same reason I don't feed lamb shanks - the c shape left when the bone is sawed length ways can become lodged over the dogs gums. It's happened to my dogs three times now and I won't risk it again!

Great questions Tim, a topic I'd dearly love to discuss in great depth and detail, but unfotunately I'm noo busy at work and don't have email at home I'll try to post my response when I get a chance, can't wait to see the other replies and ensuing discussions!

To my knowledge, both ADT and Four Paws accept all breeds for training

I find this absolutly amazing that a person taht has just join the forums would come to this thread and tell people waht to do in the first post. What heppened to the introduction of yourself tds in the "Welcome Matt" first? I think I could take a wild stab in the dark and guess who's URL would match this one First ever post and in a topic about prong collars, hmmmmm